5 ms·
Do you need ID to read the REAL-ID rules?
- dcminter 2y agohttps://archive.is/paqb8 https://archive.is/paqb8
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- ezfe 2y agoWhile I completely agree that any individual should have access to the laws and texts that govern us, I have a problem with: > “Access procedures are especially critical with respect to this proposed rule because ‘the class of persons affected’ – the relevant category pursuant to 1 CFR § 51.7(3), as quoted above – obviously includes individuals who do not have ID deemed compliant with the REAL-ID Act. These laws "apply" to platform makers who are attempting to create Real ID mDLs, not people who want a REAL ID in the abstract. Someone without a REAL ID cannot get an mDL, regardless of the text of these rules.
- Glyptodon 2y agoSomeone (with or without ID) may very much suspect that there are legal issues with gating any federal or governmental behaviors behind real ID, or not allowing open source Real ID mDLs or various similar things.
- ethbr1 2y ago1 CFR § 51.7(3) [0] is laying out the requirements by which a reference is eligible for being included in rulemaking? The 5 U.S.C. 552(a) [1] it modifies notes that "Except to the extent that a person has actual and timely notice of the terms thereof, a person may not in any manner be required to resort to, or be adversely affected by, a matter required to be published in the Federal Register and not so published." Which seems to be a pretty broad definition of affected person. I'd certainly consider myself to be affected if in order to avail myself of one option of TSA identification for air travel I had to use an app that did... (reference not openly available) [0] https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-1/part-51/section-51.7#p-51.7(a) https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-1/part-51/section-51.7#p-... [1] https://www.govinfo.gov/link/uscode/5/552 https://www.govinfo.gov/link/uscode/5/552
- ezfe 2y agoBut that’s not what this is. None of this precludes regular REAL IDs so the class of people arguably is only people with REAL IDs who are interested in making them an mDL. (Well, and companies implementing the specification)
- jkaplowitz 2y agoPeople who are deprived of an opportunity to raise a concern within the public comment period of a rulemaking proceeding because of the lack of reasonable access to binding parts of the proposed rule seem quite adversely affected to me - they don't even know of the issue or of the relevant technical details, so they can't comment on it.
- akira2501 2y agoThese laws "belong" to the citizens. If the government is not applying it's rules correctly who is there to monitor that? Do I not have that _basic right_?
- munchler 2y agoI really admire these folks for standing on a worthy principle. I also dig the performance art vibe of showing up at the TSA headquarters without an ID to read a deeply nested tree of paper documents about IDs. If you're going to joust windmills, these are some good windmills to joust.
- changoplatanero 2y agoWhy does the TSA building itself need so much security? Are they expecting it to be the target of an attack?
- emilamlom 2y agoWell, they are the best at security theater, so it makes sense their headquarters is too.
- echoangle 2y agoIs that surprising? It’s a federal agency representing the security apparatus of the US. That’s a good target for terrorism.
- A4ET8a8uTh0 2y agoTo be honest, I am genuinely surprised an attack never materialized. But then I also remember mentioning my thoughts on the matter to my wife, who was aghast that I would even consider such a scenario. Maybe, on average, people are actually decent and it is people like me, who come up with weird hypotheticals.
- harrall 2y ago~60 airplane hijackings per year in the 70s. We’ve significantly reduced it down to <4 per year. https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/airliner-hijackings-and-fatalities-from-them https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/airliner-hijackings-and-f...
- ethbr1 2y agoKudos to Mr. Hasbrouck, who I assume is the narrator, for putting feet to ground to demonstrate the lack of open access to executive branch law. You can't have a law, and also keep it secret.
- CamperBob2 2y agoIf there's any one lesson to draw from the last several years, it's that the executive branch can do anything they goddamn well please.
- JadeNB 2y ago> If there's any one lesson to draw from the last several years, it's that the executive branch can do anything they goddamn well please. You can agree or disagree with the goals and priorities of the Biden administration, but surely their interactions with the legislative and judicial branches demonstrate that, despite the high concentration of power there, the executive branch definitely still cannot act unchecked unilaterally.
- RunningDroid 2y agoIs this satire? You neglected to mention the president that has been convicted of multiple felonies
- kortilla 2y agoHow is that related? The people electing someone despite their background doesn’t have any bearing on the power of the exec branch
- anigbrowl 2y agoI'd suggest reading 'Mandate for Leadership' (better known as 'Project 2025') to get an ida of the intended scope of executive branch power under the incoming administration - specifically chapter 2 by Russ Vought, who has just been nominated back to his old job overseeing the Office of Management & Budget. https://static.project2025.org/2025_MandateForLeadership_FULL.pdf https://static.project2025.org/2025_MandateForLeadership_FUL... Of course these aspirations will be challenged in court, but given recent jurisprudence I wouldn't bet on those challenges succeeding.
- freedomben 2y ago> These mobile driver’s licenses (mDLs) will be issued by state driver’s license agencies, but the standards incorporated into the TSA rule require that they be deployed through smartphone platforms (i.e. Google and/or Apple) and operate through government apps that collect photos of users and log usage of these credentials. This is really disturbing in a number of different ways. It's bad enough to have the government requiring you to have a government-approved smart phone, but on top of that it's the logging and data analysis wet dream that authoriarian governments the world over could have only dreamed of.
- miohtama 2y agoIt's not a dream. China and India have been doing it for a while. Discussed earlier https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41608810 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41608810
- Spooky23 2y agoEven worse, the whole thing is a cash cow for Idemia and a couple of other companies, who probably alt wrote the secret rules to benefit their company and prevent competition.
- A4ET8a8uTh0 2y agoIt gets worse. In US most of the bigger corps institute some sort of means to authenticate you via cellphone, which means that if you want to be remote, phone is effectively a necessity ( which one usually does ). Only a year ago, it was still possible to avoid having to have a cell ( although that meant you had to be in person -- an interesting trade off in itself ). Anyway, I hate the now.
- henryfjordan 2y agoWork with your IT dept. A company I previously worked for had a policy that if you had any company data on your phone, they had the right to force you to unlock it and look through it (not sure if they ever actually did but it was in the employee handbook). When IT tried introducing a system that required me to Auth with my phone I refused, citing the policy, and they helped me setup a workaround Yubikey. Might not be possible everywhere but worth a shot. Also always helps to make friends in IT.
- amluto 2y ago> These mobile driver’s licenses (mDLs) will be issued by state driver’s license agencies, but the standards incorporated into the TSA rule require that they be deployed through smartphone platforms (i.e. Google and/or Apple) and operate through government apps that collect photos of users and log usage of these credentials. This is utterly ridiculous, at least for driving. Anyone who needs to validate that someone’s driver’s license is authentic should be well-equipped to query the relevant state’s database and look it up. Just like how they would search for outstanding warrants, Amber Alerts, etc. With that in mind, surely it should be legal to drive with a photo of one’s driver’s license, a copy of one’s license, any app whatsoever that can display a license, etc. There is basically no security added by a fancy add by an approved contractor — at most they can do some “device posture” crap to sort of prove to a reader that the app thinks that the phone it’s on really does belong to the owner of the license, which is a silly form of security by overcomplication. If I want to pretend to be my friend, I can borrow their phone or their actual drivers license just fine.
- sowbug 2y agoI'm with you in spirit, but I think the threat model they're trying to address is someone passing as you and needing only biometrics or a little personal information to succeed. Maybe your sibling looks enough like you, or someone acquired your ID and then alters their appearance to match. If your one true ID is a single physical token, then this threat is harder to pull off. This is also why IDs are not accepted when they expire -- if they were accepted, then my underage brother might take my old one to buy beer. I've been in the ridiculous situation of saying "I know my ID has expired, but I assure you I have not. I'm still me."
- voxic11 2y agoIDs often are accepted after they expire. The TSA for instance will accept expired driver's licenses for up to a year after the expiration date.
- kva-gad-fly 2y agoThis was intriguing to me: > One of your staff asked me yesterday how I had traveled to the DC area, whether I had traveled by air, and whether I has shown any ID to do so. As a matter of principle and personal security, I do not wish to discuss my travel history, modes, or plans with you, and I am not required to do so. But the consistent position of your agency in litigation has been that no Federal law or regulation requires airline passengers to have, to carry, or to show ID. The responses by your agency to some of our FOIA requests confirm that, as you know, people fly without ID every day. How does one go about this process?
- _fat_santa 2y agoMy mother forgot her ID once and she told me there are two ways: - They can verify identify through something like a credit card, bank statements, etc. - Even if you do not have this, they can phone someone that will verify your identity over the phone after getting some info from you. From what I heard you are only allowed to use this method twice per year.
- anticorporate 2y agoThe TSA is intentionally vague about this. Via https://www.tsa.gov/travel/security-screening/identification https://www.tsa.gov/travel/security-screening/identification > The TSA officer may ask you to complete an identity verification process which includes collecting information such as your name and current address to confirm your identity. If your identity is confirmed, you will be allowed to enter the screening checkpoint, where you may be subject to additional screening. > You will not be allowed to enter the security checkpoint if you choose to not provide acceptable identification, you decline to cooperate with the identity verification process, or your identity cannot be confirmed.
- yibbix 2y agoEvery time I’ve flown for the past few years, my ID fails to scan at TSA. Don’t know why but every time it’s happened, the TSA agent will just call over another TSA rep, they will look at it, and then say I’m good to go ahead. Never knew these other methods existed, I’ve never been asked to confirm my identity a different way.
- dclaw 2y agoReal-ID is such a farce. I have had an ID since I was 15, and presented my birth certificate and ssn as a minor to do so. There is no instance where I am not "real". I have a US Passport that took less effort and paperwork to get than a Real-ID. I will never submit.
- SkyMarshal 2y agoUS Passports are RealID.
- eqvinox 2y agoRealID seems to have added some verification requirements on US passports, but it doesn't look like it made US passports a form of "RealID".
- indrora 2y agoThroughout the RealID farce, a passport has been a perfectly reasonable form of identification. It proves my identity as a US Citizen as much as it has to be.
- bentley 2y agoThe passport card is also an option, one that’s small enough to fit in a wallet. It can be used to cross land borders, and to fly domestically (but not internationally). Unlike most driver’s licenses, a passport card doesn’t expose one’s address. This makes it a great form of ID to use in non‐airport situations as well.
- eqvinox 2y ago> Unlike most driver’s licenses, a passport card doesn’t expose one’s address. Coincidentally, this is also how it works with German passports. You're legally required to have either an ID card or a passport (or can have both.) The former has your address and comes with a bunch of ever-changing digital signature/ID features (that you need a special reader or app for). The latter is just a biometric (still RFID but well) passport, with only the city (issuing authority) listed.