5 ms·

When entering China, they take your fingerprints, iris, and I guess face too... I was there in 2019, at one point I was at an airport, and a screen was bragging

When entering China, they take your fingerprints, iris, and I guess face too... I was there in 2019, at one point I was at an airport, and a screen was bragging, "Stand where the camera can see your face, and we'll tell you which way to your gate.". It worked too, the screen displayed my name, flight number and direction to my gate. And implicitly, "We can identify you wherever you are.".

mu53 2y ago
Facial recognition systems like this are used everywhere in china. Its common for gates in apartment buildings. Its just how things work there. It feel more malicious to pretend its not happening
- casenmgreen 2y ago
  The problem is that by this it becomes ever more difficult to get rid of an oppressive, dictatorial, unelected and violent Government.
  - bayindirh 2y ago
    For an insider's perspective about "The Social Credit System", and the biometrics which underpin it, you can watch https://media.ccc.de/v/35c3-9904-the_social_credit_system https://media.ccc.de/v/35c3-9904-the_social_credit_system It's a long, but interesting talk.
    - aspenmayer 2y ago
      Also available on the media.ccc.de YouTube page: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7UKYUTke58 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7UKYUTke58
  - tehjoker 2y ago
    tbqh, first if the insinuation is that China is not democratic, that is only true in the sense it is not a liberal democracy with a conservative wing represented (a good thing), but it is still a democracy with elections. secondly, if people surviving a literal genocide in Palestine can resist the most technologically sophisticated, surveilled, and completely enclosed death camp ever constructed by the U.S. and Israel, you can figure out how to deal with cameras.
    - southernplaces7 2y ago
      It's sometimes hard to credit that there are people who think in such a contorted way as you apparently do. China isn't a democracy. The word doesn't apply when your choices for candidates can only come from one political party that pre-approved them. Don't be absurd. It's a one-party state in which variations of style among different senior figures are still forced together under the rubric of a general monolithic dogma that's only marginally beholden to public opinion, and very much subject to the whims of dominant figures. Also, many elements of the Chinese state are at least as conservative as the worst you could see in the U.S, just without the religious overtones. Truly, go study the subject and it's history a bit better. What's happening in Palestine, or more specifically in the Gaza Strip, is not a genocide. It's a tragedy of destructive military strategies by Israel, but calling it a genocide is demeaning to the definition of real genocides, which you should also study a bit better. >the most technologically sophisticated, surveilled, and completely enclosed death camp ever constructed by the U.S. and Israel Death camp, really? Also, if you're disgusted by technologically sophisticated, heavily surveilled, enclosed camps, then you really might want to find out what the Chinese "democracy" is doing in the Xinjiang Uyghur Region...
      - throw3828374 2y ago
        OP brings up a good point. The news likes to allude to China's "genocide" in Xinjiang, but no one is dying. At most they can stretch it to a "cultural genocide" but even that's not true as the native culture is not being repressed, only religious extremism. However it is true that thousands of Palestinian civilians are being killed and those same media are afraid to call it out.
        southernplaces7 2y ago
        Your point is a good one actually, and it's why I didn't mention anything about genocide in Xinjiang. It's a grotesque political atrocity of social repression and culture eradication, but as far as any sources I've looked at go, the Chinese state isn't literally killing the Uyghers en masse as an ethnic or religious group. Nonetheless, the deaths of civilians in the Gaza Strip also aren't a genocide. They could be defined as a war crime, or if you want to be really generous to Israel, as unfair collateral damage (a phrase I mostly detest in this context) but the Israeli state isn't deliberately targeting the Strip's ethnic Palestinian population for eradication.
  - godelski 2y ago
    For people unfamiliar with this topic, it is commonly referred to as "Turnkey Tyranny". It is about the belief that you "don't give Mr Rogers any power you wouldn't give to Hitler." Basically no matter how great you think your current leader is, you recognize that they will not be in power forever (or that they may not be good forever). Democracy, autocracy, oligarchy, whatever your system of government, there is a singular truth: all men die. All things change. Obviously this policy can go too far, but personally I think it is worth considering not just how good a policy or power can be, but how much harm it can do if abused or misused. It is easy to ignore this part because we want to believe people are good and have good intentions. Because we see the advantages and get excited about them. Because it is harder to think about abstract scenarios. But it is an important thing to think. You need not think your government is evil or nefarious to still be concerned with turnkey tyranny. In fact, the more faith you have in your government, the more you should be concerned. Because it is at that time that people are less likely to keep their guards up, and it is that same time that hostile actors look to take over. There is no absolute defense against malicious leaders, so it takes constant care.
    - rightbyte 2y ago
      > "Turnkey Tyranny" Thanks this is a really great concept. I'm going to use this for the slippery slope fallacy fallacy.
    - namaria 2y ago
      I am pretty sure this is the loophole Gödel found with the American constitution. It is pretty easy to turn the US government authoritarian, if you elect an authoritarian president.
    - refurb 2y ago
      This is basically the intent of the structure of the US government. High degree of separation of powers (unlike most other democracies, the executive is separate from the legislative and there are two independent legislative bodies). High level of agreement across multiple bodies before a law can be passed (House, Senate and President). I thought Scalia's explanation was a good one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ggz_gd--UO0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ggz_gd--UO0
- thisisnotauser 2y ago
  There's a famous saying about Mussolini making the trains run on time. The joke was that anyone who complained about the trains running late, which was an endemic issue emblematic of the financial failures of fascism (his government system), was killed. But if you didn't complain about the trains, maybe because you didn't take them, you didn't get killed. It was fine. Maybe things are actually kinda bad, but you're just not willing to admit it to yourself because you aren't complaining about the trains. In the US, we complain about the trains. And if the gov't is spying on us with facial recognition, we're going to stop them.
  - LtWorf 2y ago
    > And if the gov't is spying on us with facial recognition, we're going to stop them. I wish I still had this childish optimism.
  - redserk 2y ago
    No, in the US we just stick fingers in our ears while we let the private sector do it while screaming “la-la-la” and closing our eyes.
_zoltan_ 2y ago
I was there and they didn't do an iris scan. Taking a photo and fingerprint is pretty standard everywhere.
- xyst 2y ago
  The selfie normalized public photography. Travel by plane/DMV applications normalized fingerprinting. What’s next? Semen and blood samples as well? The terrorists have won. Fear has ruled the major powers of the world. And the current major power of the free world is a puppet and an all around idiot.
  - 1659447091 2y ago
    > What’s next? Semen and blood samples as well? That would seriously hamper ~50% or so of the worlds population from travel
  - bastardoperator 2y ago
    Too late, I already gave the US government my DNA/reference via blood sample. The military has been doing that since the early 90's.
    - shiroiushi 2y ago
      All Americans have DNA samples stored at an abandoned mine in West Virginia. The code to open the door is the first 5 digits of Euler's number: 27828.
Yeul 2y ago
A new Chinese export market: surveillance technology. I think Israel will be very interested... And the West will follow in time.
paulluuk 2y ago
I was in China a few years ago, didn't take fingerprints, iris, or face recognition. Just a routine passport check and that's it. I flew from Europe to Beijing, might be different if you fly from the US.
- jpcom 2y ago
  Must be the Amazon benefits for being a US citizen
- netsharc 2y ago
  I was travelling by train from Mongolia/crossed the border by bus because it was cheaper, and when I mean by bus, the bus collects you at the station before the border and drives you to the big border checkpoint building where you cross the border by foot/where they have booths and guards that do the passport and visa checks, just like at an airport. Maybe I'm misremembering the iris scan. If it did happen, it could be because there were loads of Mongolian students about to embark on their next semester of studies in China.
- seanmcdirmid 2y ago
  It changes every month it seems, port of entry is also probably significant.
- dylan604 2y ago
  Wouldn’t it just be easier if they forced you to provide your TikTok account. They’d know everything they’d need to know about you. We’re so sure that CCP has access to that data anyways right? That’s the point of the forced sell legislation.
  - lmz 2y ago
    You do know the US government also asks for your social media accounts when you apply for a Visa? https://travel.state.gov/content/dam/visas/Enhanced%20Vetting/CA%20-%20FAQs%20on%20Social%20Media%20Collection%20-%206-4-2019%20(v.2).pdf https://travel.state.gov/content/dam/visas/Enhanced%20Vettin...
X-Istence 2y ago
When entering the United States they also take fingerprints and a picture of your face.
- applied_heat 2y ago
  Canadians don’t have their finger prints taken when entering USA
- hoppyhoppy2 2y ago
  ...unless you're a US citizen, correct?
  - HWR_14 2y ago
    Correct.
- DanHulton 2y ago
  Fingerprints? I haven't ever had that happen. Perhaps only certain countries?
  - X-Istence 2y ago
    I am a US resident alien (green card holder) and I have my fingerprints and picture taken each time I enter the United States.
    - reddotchaser 2y ago
      Yeah all non-citizens have to do that. If and when you become a citizen you won’t have to. It’s crazy how much nicer entering the country feels after that lol
  - iamjackg 2y ago
    People from (all?) visa waiver countries have their fingerprints taken when entering the US, in addition to having to submit an ESTA[0] application before arrival. Last I checked, it still asked for all your social media handles (although you're not required to provide them). 0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_System_for_Travel_Authorization https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_System_for_Travel_A...
abdullahkhalids 2y ago
Pictures are also taken on entry in Canada, at least at Vancouver airport [1]. And obviously getting the visa requires submitting your fingerprints. [1] https://www.yvr.ca/en/passengers/navigate-yvr/customs-and-immigration/canada-border-services-agency/canada-border-clearance https://www.yvr.ca/en/passengers/navigate-yvr/customs-and-im...
- swat535 2y ago
  It's Canada wide, we have these in Montreal as well
kyawzazaw 2y ago
Also in singapore
swat535 2y ago
Same thing when entering Japan, they even have machines where you can do it yourself
- dr-detroit 2y ago
  [dead]
antipaul 2y ago
They've had facial recognition in Europe at airports for a few years now. At least if you are EU citizen, you don't need to interface with humans. I believe, though not certain, that you can opt out simply by going to the human booths (right?)

mu53 2y ago

Facial recognition systems like this are used everywhere in china. Its common for gates in apartment buildings. Its just how things work there. It feel more malicious to pretend its not happening

casenmgreen 2y ago
The problem is that by this it becomes ever more difficult to get rid of an oppressive, dictatorial, unelected and violent Government.
- bayindirh 2y ago
  For an insider's perspective about "The Social Credit System", and the biometrics which underpin it, you can watch https://media.ccc.de/v/35c3-9904-the_social_credit_system https://media.ccc.de/v/35c3-9904-the_social_credit_system It's a long, but interesting talk.
  - aspenmayer 2y ago
    Also available on the media.ccc.de YouTube page: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7UKYUTke58 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7UKYUTke58
- tehjoker 2y ago
  tbqh, first if the insinuation is that China is not democratic, that is only true in the sense it is not a liberal democracy with a conservative wing represented (a good thing), but it is still a democracy with elections. secondly, if people surviving a literal genocide in Palestine can resist the most technologically sophisticated, surveilled, and completely enclosed death camp ever constructed by the U.S. and Israel, you can figure out how to deal with cameras.
  - southernplaces7 2y ago
    It's sometimes hard to credit that there are people who think in such a contorted way as you apparently do. China isn't a democracy. The word doesn't apply when your choices for candidates can only come from one political party that pre-approved them. Don't be absurd. It's a one-party state in which variations of style among different senior figures are still forced together under the rubric of a general monolithic dogma that's only marginally beholden to public opinion, and very much subject to the whims of dominant figures. Also, many elements of the Chinese state are at least as conservative as the worst you could see in the U.S, just without the religious overtones. Truly, go study the subject and it's history a bit better. What's happening in Palestine, or more specifically in the Gaza Strip, is not a genocide. It's a tragedy of destructive military strategies by Israel, but calling it a genocide is demeaning to the definition of real genocides, which you should also study a bit better. >the most technologically sophisticated, surveilled, and completely enclosed death camp ever constructed by the U.S. and Israel Death camp, really? Also, if you're disgusted by technologically sophisticated, heavily surveilled, enclosed camps, then you really might want to find out what the Chinese "democracy" is doing in the Xinjiang Uyghur Region...
    - throw3828374 2y ago
      OP brings up a good point. The news likes to allude to China's "genocide" in Xinjiang, but no one is dying. At most they can stretch it to a "cultural genocide" but even that's not true as the native culture is not being repressed, only religious extremism. However it is true that thousands of Palestinian civilians are being killed and those same media are afraid to call it out.
      - southernplaces7 2y ago
        Your point is a good one actually, and it's why I didn't mention anything about genocide in Xinjiang. It's a grotesque political atrocity of social repression and culture eradication, but as far as any sources I've looked at go, the Chinese state isn't literally killing the Uyghers en masse as an ethnic or religious group. Nonetheless, the deaths of civilians in the Gaza Strip also aren't a genocide. They could be defined as a war crime, or if you want to be really generous to Israel, as unfair collateral damage (a phrase I mostly detest in this context) but the Israeli state isn't deliberately targeting the Strip's ethnic Palestinian population for eradication.
- godelski 2y ago
  For people unfamiliar with this topic, it is commonly referred to as "Turnkey Tyranny". It is about the belief that you "don't give Mr Rogers any power you wouldn't give to Hitler." Basically no matter how great you think your current leader is, you recognize that they will not be in power forever (or that they may not be good forever). Democracy, autocracy, oligarchy, whatever your system of government, there is a singular truth: all men die. All things change. Obviously this policy can go too far, but personally I think it is worth considering not just how good a policy or power can be, but how much harm it can do if abused or misused. It is easy to ignore this part because we want to believe people are good and have good intentions. Because we see the advantages and get excited about them. Because it is harder to think about abstract scenarios. But it is an important thing to think. You need not think your government is evil or nefarious to still be concerned with turnkey tyranny. In fact, the more faith you have in your government, the more you should be concerned. Because it is at that time that people are less likely to keep their guards up, and it is that same time that hostile actors look to take over. There is no absolute defense against malicious leaders, so it takes constant care.
  - rightbyte 2y ago
    > "Turnkey Tyranny" Thanks this is a really great concept. I'm going to use this for the slippery slope fallacy fallacy.
  - namaria 2y ago
    I am pretty sure this is the loophole Gödel found with the American constitution. It is pretty easy to turn the US government authoritarian, if you elect an authoritarian president.
  - refurb 2y ago
    This is basically the intent of the structure of the US government. High degree of separation of powers (unlike most other democracies, the executive is separate from the legislative and there are two independent legislative bodies). High level of agreement across multiple bodies before a law can be passed (House, Senate and President). I thought Scalia's explanation was a good one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ggz_gd--UO0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ggz_gd--UO0
thisisnotauser 2y ago
There's a famous saying about Mussolini making the trains run on time. The joke was that anyone who complained about the trains running late, which was an endemic issue emblematic of the financial failures of fascism (his government system), was killed. But if you didn't complain about the trains, maybe because you didn't take them, you didn't get killed. It was fine. Maybe things are actually kinda bad, but you're just not willing to admit it to yourself because you aren't complaining about the trains. In the US, we complain about the trains. And if the gov't is spying on us with facial recognition, we're going to stop them.
- LtWorf 2y ago
  > And if the gov't is spying on us with facial recognition, we're going to stop them. I wish I still had this childish optimism.
- redserk 2y ago
  No, in the US we just stick fingers in our ears while we let the private sector do it while screaming “la-la-la” and closing our eyes.

_zoltan_ 2y ago

I was there and they didn't do an iris scan. Taking a photo and fingerprint is pretty standard everywhere.

xyst 2y ago
The selfie normalized public photography. Travel by plane/DMV applications normalized fingerprinting. What’s next? Semen and blood samples as well? The terrorists have won. Fear has ruled the major powers of the world. And the current major power of the free world is a puppet and an all around idiot.
- 1659447091 2y ago
  > What’s next? Semen and blood samples as well? That would seriously hamper ~50% or so of the worlds population from travel
- bastardoperator 2y ago
  Too late, I already gave the US government my DNA/reference via blood sample. The military has been doing that since the early 90's.
  - shiroiushi 2y ago
    All Americans have DNA samples stored at an abandoned mine in West Virginia. The code to open the door is the first 5 digits of Euler's number: 27828.

Yeul 2y ago

A new Chinese export market: surveillance technology. I think Israel will be very interested... And the West will follow in time.

paulluuk 2y ago

I was in China a few years ago, didn't take fingerprints, iris, or face recognition. Just a routine passport check and that's it. I flew from Europe to Beijing, might be different if you fly from the US.

jpcom 2y ago
Must be the Amazon benefits for being a US citizen
netsharc 2y ago
I was travelling by train from Mongolia/crossed the border by bus because it was cheaper, and when I mean by bus, the bus collects you at the station before the border and drives you to the big border checkpoint building where you cross the border by foot/where they have booths and guards that do the passport and visa checks, just like at an airport. Maybe I'm misremembering the iris scan. If it did happen, it could be because there were loads of Mongolian students about to embark on their next semester of studies in China.
seanmcdirmid 2y ago
It changes every month it seems, port of entry is also probably significant.
dylan604 2y ago
Wouldn’t it just be easier if they forced you to provide your TikTok account. They’d know everything they’d need to know about you. We’re so sure that CCP has access to that data anyways right? That’s the point of the forced sell legislation.
- lmz 2y ago
  You do know the US government also asks for your social media accounts when you apply for a Visa? https://travel.state.gov/content/dam/visas/Enhanced%20Vetting/CA%20-%20FAQs%20on%20Social%20Media%20Collection%20-%206-4-2019%20(v.2).pdf https://travel.state.gov/content/dam/visas/Enhanced%20Vettin...

X-Istence 2y ago

When entering the United States they also take fingerprints and a picture of your face.

applied_heat 2y ago
Canadians don’t have their finger prints taken when entering USA
hoppyhoppy2 2y ago
...unless you're a US citizen, correct?
- HWR_14 2y ago
  Correct.
DanHulton 2y ago
Fingerprints? I haven't ever had that happen. Perhaps only certain countries?
- X-Istence 2y ago
  I am a US resident alien (green card holder) and I have my fingerprints and picture taken each time I enter the United States.
  - reddotchaser 2y ago
    Yeah all non-citizens have to do that. If and when you become a citizen you won’t have to. It’s crazy how much nicer entering the country feels after that lol
- iamjackg 2y ago
  People from (all?) visa waiver countries have their fingerprints taken when entering the US, in addition to having to submit an ESTA[0] application before arrival. Last I checked, it still asked for all your social media handles (although you're not required to provide them). 0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_System_for_Travel_Authorization https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_System_for_Travel_A...

abdullahkhalids 2y ago

Pictures are also taken on entry in Canada, at least at Vancouver airport [1]. And obviously getting the visa requires submitting your fingerprints. [1] https://www.yvr.ca/en/passengers/navigate-yvr/customs-and-immigration/canada-border-services-agency/canada-border-clearance https://www.yvr.ca/en/passengers/navigate-yvr/customs-and-im...

swat535 2y ago
It's Canada wide, we have these in Montreal as well

kyawzazaw 2y ago

Also in singapore

swat535 2y ago

Same thing when entering Japan, they even have machines where you can do it yourself

dr-detroit 2y ago
[dead]

antipaul 2y ago

They've had facial recognition in Europe at airports for a few years now. At least if you are EU citizen, you don't need to interface with humans. I believe, though not certain, that you can opt out simply by going to the human booths (right?)