6 ms·

Slouch: Posture panic in modern America

71 points by samclemens 2y ago

tartoran 2y ago
TIP: Remember to check if you can get a glimpse of your feet with your peripheral vision. If you are then you are slouching so adjust accordingly.
xenonite 2y ago
Since eating more protein I finally find it easy to sit straight with little effort. What a great feeling this is actually! Even though I did strength training before that (for many years), it was the diet that finally did the trick.
OldGuyInTheClub 2y ago
Alexander Technique can have benefits if one puts in the effort and to some extent believes in it. FM Alexander referred to his method as "the work." But, it takes time and a certain mindset to integrate it into daily life without becoming self-conscious. That's where it came apart for me since I overthink everything. I think others on HN may be the same. As soon as you start to doubt, it stops. Now, I am in the coffin-corner of going through the Alexander steps because they are "in my head" while getting nothing out of them. Additionally, it is not a way to learn new things and avoid bad habits "by design." It seems to work when people (artists, musicians, dancers, etc. who are the chief customers of Alexander) have trained themselves to do certain things but who have pain from doing those things less than optimally. Reeducating themselves to do things differently may work. I tried to apply it to new movements and failed utterly.
naming_the_user 2y ago
I'll admit to not reading the entire article here but I think that mostly people mistake posture issues for lack of exercise / being sedentary in general. If you work out a minimal amount and build some core strength / back muscles etc then you'll find that your posture naturally corrects itself whilst walking, that sitting in a chair for extended periods isn't as rough, etc.
- supertofu 2y ago
  15 minutes of Pilates a day and your posture will be as good as a ballerina's. You don't even need weights.
- n4r9 2y ago
  I've found this to be the case for myself. And "minimal" can be pretty quick - work up to a set of 5 squats with your body weight on the bar, once or twice a week, say.
  - rootusrootus 2y ago
    I must be old or I have a different idea of minimal. A set of squats at ~200 pounds is entirely doable in time, yes, but my guess is it would be non-trivial for much of the adult population. Even when we were doing conditioning in high school I don't recall that a significant fraction of the class was breaking much over 225 or so.
    - nightowl_games 2y ago
      Yeah I've been lifting consistently basically my whole adult life - with coaches, and squatting your body weight with proper form is difficult. Maybe 1/10 people I see regularly go to the gym actually squat at full depth. I can squat my body weight, but it took me a very long time and multiple coaches to get there with proper form. People need to set realistic goals, like squatting _no added weight_. Seriously, squat with no bar and get your butt below your knees. That alone is a serious movement, you can get fit with just that.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
    - fire_lake 2y ago
      Many people lack the mobility to squat at all! Correcting this takes considerable time.
    - yesco 2y ago
      Gaining reliable access to the equipment can also be tricky depending on your budget, schedule and floorplan. I personally couldn't really get a good habit going until I could purchase the equipment and make it available from home. Prior to that I was intermittently going to a gym but Covid really drilled into me how transient that access can be. Considering how far you can go with just a few gallons of water, would be nice if there was more innovation in this space to increase accessibility in a safe way. While the bars and weights are one thing, it's ultimately the lack of a rack that makes squats troublesome imo.
apitman 2y ago
Lift weights
- baxtr 2y ago
  Surprisingly enough, the answer to many self imposed human problems
sandspar 2y ago
If you watch those "restored 1920s street scene" videos on YouTube then you'll quickly notice that every single pedestrian has outstanding posture.
- metalman 2y ago
  And up untill the 1940's spiral fractures in various sports were unknown,The base level of exercise from normal activities starting in early childhood built a more robust skeleton and stronger muscle attachment points. Proof would be trivial, as amish and menonite comunities still follow the same practices.....they are not known as slouchers go look at average city kids, and then go look at the ones bieng raised on biodynamic farms, my joke is that the city kids are soft and grey, but the farm kids look good enough to eat, 2 seconds and you see the healthy glow
  - watwut 2y ago
    > And up untill the 1940's spiral fractures in various sports were unknown The sports were massively less competitive back then, incomparable to todays variant. The sports as a super competitive and popular past time is recent development. If less people do sport and sport itself is less competitive, less people will get injured. Also, while people were strong, they were not buffed. The robust build, six pack and big muscles is our ideal. Men were basically thin. > my joke is that the city kids are soft and grey, but the farm kids look good enough to eat, 2 seconds and you see the healthy glow Fun fact: cities are overall thinner then rural parts.
ChrisMarshallNY 2y ago
My father was fairly tall, and had a slouch from always ducking (we lived in Africa, and he towered over most people, and was always banging his head). My mother was always nagging me to "sit up straight." These days, I have fairly good posture. Part of it, is because I take a 5K brisk walk, every morning, and that helps me to stay straight. Also, I am not that tall, so I don't need to keep ducking. I also use a standing desk, and like to stand straight for it.
- Aeolun 2y ago
  Tall man living in Japan. I know how that feels. It sorta gets ingrained to always do it to some extend because if you mess up once you bang your head on the doorpost. Of course my own house doesn’t have that issue (you’d think), but the one toilet on the second floor… so even at home you can’t relax the vigilance.
  - sdrothrock 2y ago
    the showers here especially have always made me slouch and I'm not especially tall at 175 cm! It was only after getting a shower where I could stand straight that I realized how much I'd been slouching over the last 17 years due to low shower heads.
    - Aeolun 2y ago
      That was a hard requirement for the house xD I can deal with ducking when I need to go to the toilet, but the shower absolutely has to be able to hit my head instead of my shoulders.
- ChrisMarshallNY 2y ago
  I do feel that I should set the record straight. When we lived in West Africa, he was unusually tall. In East Africa, though, he had competition from the Masai and Watusi folks, who tended to be basketball-player tall.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
vhcr 2y ago
> No consensus on causality of spine postures or physical exposure and low back pain: A systematic review of systematic reviews https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S002192901930524X https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S00219...
vanjajaja1 2y ago
i lifted weights to attempt to fix postural issues that i noticed in my 20s. it made things worse the issue was that i lifted weights to make big number go up, instead of using weights as a support tool to explore muscles in the body
- crazygringo 2y ago
  Yup, the same happened to me. The additional strength didn't do anything to fix my posture. It just let me hold my bad posture for even longer, until another muscle would fail. You need things like Alexander Technique to retrain how you hold and use your body. And things like myofascial release to undo all the new tension you created from all the lifting with bad posture.
  - vanjajaja1 2y ago
    yep this is exactly what is saving me, and its taking a while. how long did it take you to “complete” the AT/myofascial work?
rapjr9 2y ago
This is an area that appears to need some serious research. It seems entirely possible that "good posture" is an idea that comes from our monkey heritage where standing tall was a way to threaten other monkeys and gain status. Also standing up straight may be inherently unnatural, monkeys don't usually do it, and it might actually be the cause of lower back pain for all anyone knows. In other words, a posture fad may be the primary cause of lower back pain.
- potato3732842 2y ago
  > Also standing up straight may be inherently unnatural, monkeys don't usually do it, and it might actually be the cause of lower back pain for all anyone knows. My understanding is that this is well established fact. We are literally the ape that stood up. The resulting curved spine is fine for running around chasing water buffalo with the bros but poor for the kind of chronic load bearing and heavy use required to build and maintain civilization. People who subject their backs to chronic hard use generally wear them out at relatively young ages (middle age or so).
sali0 2y ago
Almost had to get neck surgery from a BJJ injury + sitting on a computer all day. This was after BJJ training 3 times a week + lifting twice a week. Would wake up with numb pinkies and would experience shooting pains up and down my neck as I was sitting at my computer. The thing that prevented a surgery for me was simply fixing my posture, by strengthening the upper back and neck muscles. The most effective exercise I've experienced to achieve this is cable face pulls, with a grip that externally rotates the shoulder. You can see an example here[0]. Non-gym related thing that also helps with posture is getting a standing desk. Its not even necessary to stand, but simply having the ability to change the height of your desk is a massive help for getting the correct sitting posture. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljgqer1ZpXg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljgqer1ZpXg
- barrenko 2y ago
  If you feel like expanding this post with more tips, I'd love it.
binary132 2y ago
This article brought to you by Big Hunch
drcwpl 2y ago
This is a global problem. Many years ago I was in a zen retreat and the monks would literally whack us on the shoulders with a cane to sit up straight. The point was that we put pressure on our organs when we slouch. Straightening up helps our over all well-being and confidence.

71 points by samclemens 2y ago

TIP: Remember to check if you can get a glimpse of your feet with your peripheral vision. If you are then you are slouching so adjust accordingly.

xenonite 2y ago

Since eating more protein I finally find it easy to sit straight with little effort. What a great feeling this is actually! Even though I did strength training before that (for many years), it was the diet that finally did the trick.

OldGuyInTheClub 2y ago

Alexander Technique can have benefits if one puts in the effort and to some extent believes in it. FM Alexander referred to his method as "the work." But, it takes time and a certain mindset to integrate it into daily life without becoming self-conscious. That's where it came apart for me since I overthink everything. I think others on HN may be the same. As soon as you start to doubt, it stops. Now, I am in the coffin-corner of going through the Alexander steps because they are "in my head" while getting nothing out of them. Additionally, it is not a way to learn new things and avoid bad habits "by design." It seems to work when people (artists, musicians, dancers, etc. who are the chief customers of Alexander) have trained themselves to do certain things but who have pain from doing those things less than optimally. Reeducating themselves to do things differently may work. I tried to apply it to new movements and failed utterly.

naming_the_user 2y ago

I'll admit to not reading the entire article here but I think that mostly people mistake posture issues for lack of exercise / being sedentary in general. If you work out a minimal amount and build some core strength / back muscles etc then you'll find that your posture naturally corrects itself whilst walking, that sitting in a chair for extended periods isn't as rough, etc.

supertofu 2y ago
15 minutes of Pilates a day and your posture will be as good as a ballerina's. You don't even need weights.
n4r9 2y ago
I've found this to be the case for myself. And "minimal" can be pretty quick - work up to a set of 5 squats with your body weight on the bar, once or twice a week, say.
- rootusrootus 2y ago
  I must be old or I have a different idea of minimal. A set of squats at ~200 pounds is entirely doable in time, yes, but my guess is it would be non-trivial for much of the adult population. Even when we were doing conditioning in high school I don't recall that a significant fraction of the class was breaking much over 225 or so.
  - nightowl_games 2y ago
    Yeah I've been lifting consistently basically my whole adult life - with coaches, and squatting your body weight with proper form is difficult. Maybe 1/10 people I see regularly go to the gym actually squat at full depth. I can squat my body weight, but it took me a very long time and multiple coaches to get there with proper form. People need to set realistic goals, like squatting _no added weight_. Seriously, squat with no bar and get your butt below your knees. That alone is a serious movement, you can get fit with just that.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - fire_lake 2y ago
    Many people lack the mobility to squat at all! Correcting this takes considerable time.
  - yesco 2y ago
    Gaining reliable access to the equipment can also be tricky depending on your budget, schedule and floorplan. I personally couldn't really get a good habit going until I could purchase the equipment and make it available from home. Prior to that I was intermittently going to a gym but Covid really drilled into me how transient that access can be. Considering how far you can go with just a few gallons of water, would be nice if there was more innovation in this space to increase accessibility in a safe way. While the bars and weights are one thing, it's ultimately the lack of a rack that makes squats troublesome imo.

apitman 2y ago

Lift weights

baxtr 2y ago
Surprisingly enough, the answer to many self imposed human problems

sandspar 2y ago

If you watch those "restored 1920s street scene" videos on YouTube then you'll quickly notice that every single pedestrian has outstanding posture.

metalman 2y ago
And up untill the 1940's spiral fractures in various sports were unknown,The base level of exercise from normal activities starting in early childhood built a more robust skeleton and stronger muscle attachment points. Proof would be trivial, as amish and menonite comunities still follow the same practices.....they are not known as slouchers go look at average city kids, and then go look at the ones bieng raised on biodynamic farms, my joke is that the city kids are soft and grey, but the farm kids look good enough to eat, 2 seconds and you see the healthy glow
- watwut 2y ago
  > And up untill the 1940's spiral fractures in various sports were unknown The sports were massively less competitive back then, incomparable to todays variant. The sports as a super competitive and popular past time is recent development. If less people do sport and sport itself is less competitive, less people will get injured. Also, while people were strong, they were not buffed. The robust build, six pack and big muscles is our ideal. Men were basically thin. > my joke is that the city kids are soft and grey, but the farm kids look good enough to eat, 2 seconds and you see the healthy glow Fun fact: cities are overall thinner then rural parts.

ChrisMarshallNY 2y ago

My father was fairly tall, and had a slouch from always ducking (we lived in Africa, and he towered over most people, and was always banging his head). My mother was always nagging me to "sit up straight." These days, I have fairly good posture. Part of it, is because I take a 5K brisk walk, every morning, and that helps me to stay straight. Also, I am not that tall, so I don't need to keep ducking. I also use a standing desk, and like to stand straight for it.

Aeolun 2y ago
Tall man living in Japan. I know how that feels. It sorta gets ingrained to always do it to some extend because if you mess up once you bang your head on the doorpost. Of course my own house doesn’t have that issue (you’d think), but the one toilet on the second floor… so even at home you can’t relax the vigilance.
- sdrothrock 2y ago
  the showers here especially have always made me slouch and I'm not especially tall at 175 cm! It was only after getting a shower where I could stand straight that I realized how much I'd been slouching over the last 17 years due to low shower heads.
  - Aeolun 2y ago
    That was a hard requirement for the house xD I can deal with ducking when I need to go to the toilet, but the shower absolutely has to be able to hit my head instead of my shoulders.
ChrisMarshallNY 2y ago
I do feel that I should set the record straight. When we lived in West Africa, he was unusually tall. In East Africa, though, he had competition from the Masai and Watusi folks, who tended to be basketball-player tall.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

vhcr 2y ago

> No consensus on causality of spine postures or physical exposure and low back pain: A systematic review of systematic reviews https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S002192901930524X https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S00219...

vanjajaja1 2y ago

i lifted weights to attempt to fix postural issues that i noticed in my 20s. it made things worse the issue was that i lifted weights to make big number go up, instead of using weights as a support tool to explore muscles in the body

crazygringo 2y ago
Yup, the same happened to me. The additional strength didn't do anything to fix my posture. It just let me hold my bad posture for even longer, until another muscle would fail. You need things like Alexander Technique to retrain how you hold and use your body. And things like myofascial release to undo all the new tension you created from all the lifting with bad posture.
- vanjajaja1 2y ago
  yep this is exactly what is saving me, and its taking a while. how long did it take you to “complete” the AT/myofascial work?

rapjr9 2y ago

This is an area that appears to need some serious research. It seems entirely possible that "good posture" is an idea that comes from our monkey heritage where standing tall was a way to threaten other monkeys and gain status. Also standing up straight may be inherently unnatural, monkeys don't usually do it, and it might actually be the cause of lower back pain for all anyone knows. In other words, a posture fad may be the primary cause of lower back pain.

potato3732842 2y ago
> Also standing up straight may be inherently unnatural, monkeys don't usually do it, and it might actually be the cause of lower back pain for all anyone knows. My understanding is that this is well established fact. We are literally the ape that stood up. The resulting curved spine is fine for running around chasing water buffalo with the bros but poor for the kind of chronic load bearing and heavy use required to build and maintain civilization. People who subject their backs to chronic hard use generally wear them out at relatively young ages (middle age or so).

sali0 2y ago

Almost had to get neck surgery from a BJJ injury + sitting on a computer all day. This was after BJJ training 3 times a week + lifting twice a week. Would wake up with numb pinkies and would experience shooting pains up and down my neck as I was sitting at my computer. The thing that prevented a surgery for me was simply fixing my posture, by strengthening the upper back and neck muscles. The most effective exercise I've experienced to achieve this is cable face pulls, with a grip that externally rotates the shoulder. You can see an example here[0]. Non-gym related thing that also helps with posture is getting a standing desk. Its not even necessary to stand, but simply having the ability to change the height of your desk is a massive help for getting the correct sitting posture. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljgqer1ZpXg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljgqer1ZpXg

barrenko 2y ago
If you feel like expanding this post with more tips, I'd love it.

binary132 2y ago

This article brought to you by Big Hunch

drcwpl 2y ago

This is a global problem. Many years ago I was in a zen retreat and the monks would literally whack us on the shoulders with a cane to sit up straight. The point was that we put pressure on our organs when we slouch. Straightening up helps our over all well-being and confidence.