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I would argue this is mistaking cause for effect. Girls are outperforming boys in high school, and therefore entering college at higher rates and graduating col

I would argue this is mistaking cause for effect. Girls are outperforming boys in high school, and therefore entering college at higher rates and graduating college at higher rates. It’s not that boys are making a decision in high school not to go to college and therefore letting their grades slip. Once your grades slip, pathways to college narrow dramatically. To illustrate my point, we can compare earnings of men with no college to women with a bachelor’s degree. Men make $45k, women make $65k. To believe that men are choosing trades you have to believe that men would voluntarily choose to make 30% less. https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2024/05/23/labor-market-and-economic-trends-for-young-adults/ https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2024/05/23/labor-m...

matt3210 2y ago
State universities outside tier 1 cities don't care about grades except that they are passing (D or higher).
- nradov 2y ago
  Which state is that? Most students need at least a B average for admission to even the lowest rated schools in the California State University system, like CSU East Bay or CSU Dominguez Hills.
  - jandrewrogers 2y ago
    I don’t know what it is like today but that was not the case in the 1990s. I know people who got into San Jose State for STEM on a 2.xx GPA.
  - Der_Einzige 2y ago
    The CSUs are still more competitive than most state schools; and a B average is very low in our grade inflated world.
  - johnnyanmac 2y ago
    time could have changed, but a decade ago local high schools in my CSU were guaranteed entrance with a 2.0 and a 1200 SAT score... in the days where we still had the 2400 system. So I suppose that would be 800-900 in the 1600 point system. But this is 12-14 years out of date. Maybe standards rose or they couldn't continue this guarantee.
    - nradov 2y ago
      Times have changed a bit. Some CSU campuses do guarantee admission based on GPA but only to students who graduate from high school in a limited set of local public school districts. Like CSU East Bay requires a 2.5 GPA from one of two school districts (SAT scores don't count). Other campuses like SJSU have no guaranteed admissions but do give preference to locals.
- EasyMark 2y ago
  That is not true at all. There is competition to get in those schools as well, what makes you think everything outside the elite will “just take anyone”, which basically 95% of the people who graduate high school are well above a D. Only the lowest level community colleges don’t have some standard that they apply
johnnyanmac 2y ago
> It’s not that boys are making a decision in high school not to go to college and therefore letting their grades slip. I may be taking the surface level for grantes, but: based on the article, men were a lot more likely to in fact make my decision: > A 2021 Pew Research Center survey asked Americans without a bachelor’s degree why they chose not to seek one – and found some gender differences in the responses. For example, men without a bachelor’s degree were more likely than women to say they just didn’t want to get one. And women in another study suggest that they more or less need a degree due to less non-degree options: https://www.stlouisfed.org/on-the-economy/2022/mar/why-women-outnumber-men-college-enrollment https://www.stlouisfed.org/on-the-economy/2022/mar/why-women... >What these numbers reveal is that, indeed, getting more education is an important way to close the gender pay gap. College entry—whether it is to get an AS or a BS—helps women gain access to careers where they have a comparative advantage (e.g., office work). Men on the other hand have better access to lucrative careers that don’t require a college degree (e.g., construction work). This appears to be the most reasonable explanation for why women outnumber men in college. Encouragement goes a long way, but of course kids aren't dumb either. I'm sure some boys simply seek to work these blue collar jobs and realize you don't need to go to more school (which yes, they do worse in) to star doing this stuff.
vannevar 2y ago
>To illustrate my point, we can compare earnings of men with no college to women with a bachelor’s degree. Men make $45k, women make $65k. To believe that men are choosing trades you have to believe that men would voluntarily choose to make 30% less. Using the men's average is not the right metric. We're looking at a choice here, so the proper thing is to look at the percentage of men without a college degree who earn comparably to men with one, vs the same with women. I think you'll find a greater percentage of high earning men without degrees than you will find with women.

matt3210 2y ago

State universities outside tier 1 cities don't care about grades except that they are passing (D or higher).

nradov 2y ago
Which state is that? Most students need at least a B average for admission to even the lowest rated schools in the California State University system, like CSU East Bay or CSU Dominguez Hills.
- jandrewrogers 2y ago
  I don’t know what it is like today but that was not the case in the 1990s. I know people who got into San Jose State for STEM on a 2.xx GPA.
- Der_Einzige 2y ago
  The CSUs are still more competitive than most state schools; and a B average is very low in our grade inflated world.
- johnnyanmac 2y ago
  time could have changed, but a decade ago local high schools in my CSU were guaranteed entrance with a 2.0 and a 1200 SAT score... in the days where we still had the 2400 system. So I suppose that would be 800-900 in the 1600 point system. But this is 12-14 years out of date. Maybe standards rose or they couldn't continue this guarantee.
  - nradov 2y ago
    Times have changed a bit. Some CSU campuses do guarantee admission based on GPA but only to students who graduate from high school in a limited set of local public school districts. Like CSU East Bay requires a 2.5 GPA from one of two school districts (SAT scores don't count). Other campuses like SJSU have no guaranteed admissions but do give preference to locals.
EasyMark 2y ago
That is not true at all. There is competition to get in those schools as well, what makes you think everything outside the elite will “just take anyone”, which basically 95% of the people who graduate high school are well above a D. Only the lowest level community colleges don’t have some standard that they apply

johnnyanmac 2y ago

> It’s not that boys are making a decision in high school not to go to college and therefore letting their grades slip. I may be taking the surface level for grantes, but: based on the article, men were a lot more likely to in fact make my decision: > A 2021 Pew Research Center survey asked Americans without a bachelor’s degree why they chose not to seek one – and found some gender differences in the responses. For example, men without a bachelor’s degree were more likely than women to say they just didn’t want to get one. And women in another study suggest that they more or less need a degree due to less non-degree options: https://www.stlouisfed.org/on-the-economy/2022/mar/why-women-outnumber-men-college-enrollment https://www.stlouisfed.org/on-the-economy/2022/mar/why-women... >What these numbers reveal is that, indeed, getting more education is an important way to close the gender pay gap. College entry—whether it is to get an AS or a BS—helps women gain access to careers where they have a comparative advantage (e.g., office work). Men on the other hand have better access to lucrative careers that don’t require a college degree (e.g., construction work). This appears to be the most reasonable explanation for why women outnumber men in college. Encouragement goes a long way, but of course kids aren't dumb either. I'm sure some boys simply seek to work these blue collar jobs and realize you don't need to go to more school (which yes, they do worse in) to star doing this stuff.

vannevar 2y ago

>To illustrate my point, we can compare earnings of men with no college to women with a bachelor’s degree. Men make $45k, women make $65k. To believe that men are choosing trades you have to believe that men would voluntarily choose to make 30% less. Using the men's average is not the right metric. We're looking at a choice here, so the proper thing is to look at the percentage of men without a college degree who earn comparably to men with one, vs the same with women. I think you'll find a greater percentage of high earning men without degrees than you will find with women.