4 ms·

Las Vegas man who called 911 for help killed by police in his home

18 points by tartoran 2y ago

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
uberman 2y ago
When responding to a break and enter and you find two people fighting over a knife. How about next time you shoot the one wearing the ski-mask rather than the one in his underwear.
- jmclnx 2y ago
  They had knives, how about using a taser instead ? I have been saying for decades, regular cops in the US should not be allowed to carry guns. If they need help, call fully trained people with guns. Or maybe no guns unless they have a fully unblemished record, without any kind of complaint.
  - kyleee 2y ago
    Tasers fail frequently and knives are extremely deadly within a certain range. Yours is a very unconsidered opinion; not really helpful to this debate.
    - dTal 2y ago
      Guns also fail frequently, in ways that are much deadlier to innocent and unprepared bystanders, as seen in the article. Perhaps tasers per se are not the answer, but there most certainly needs to be a range of nonlethal interventions available to police officers. The current system appears to be "turn up and make a snap decision who to murder to make the problem stop", which is - dare I say - a bad system. It is not even unreasonable to argue against giving government officials the power to simply end people on a whim at all.
      - kyleee 2y ago
        I don’t necessarily disagree overall, but what does that have to do with the point about knives being very dangerous in close quarters, and tasers being a very poor/risky choice to try to stop someone trying to harm you/another with a knife? That’s what I was commenting on…
- tartoran 2y ago
  Shot once then 4 more times. The policy is terrifying in the US. Many deaths could be avoidable with a policy change.
- MrMember 2y ago
  Even worse the victim's daughter provided a description of the intruder when she called 911 (a woman wearing a red hoodie). When the cop saw a woman wearing a red hoodie trying to stab a black man in his underwear he chose to shoot the black man in his underwear.
- johnea 2y ago
  > Mr Bookman then fires five more shots at Mr Durham and says "put your hands up" WTF?
quantified 2y ago
> Mr Bookman then fires five more shots at Mr Durham and says "put your hands up", body-worn camera footage released by police showed. Classic.
vinni2 2y ago
Why these kind of stories happen only in US? Makes me feel unsafe to live in US.
- piva00 2y ago
  As a non-US resident with experience from two very different police forces (Brazil vs Sweden) I'd say American police is much more similar to the Brazilian police rather than the Swedish (or Dutch, German, Danish, Norwegian, etc.) . Just as a background: Brazil's police has a rather odd setup, leftover from the military dictatorship, the investigative branch is called "civilian police" (Polícia Civil) while the one patrolling streets and enforcing day-to-day activities is the "military police" (Polícia Militar) which falls under the military branch command, but it's not the "military police" as the US Army one, as the Brazilian army police is "Polícia do Exército". To me, again as an outsider, the American police is very militarised, with very low training (and badly trained overall). The cultural aspects of the US around gun ownership also makes American cops much more trigger happy since in many places anyone could be carrying a gun. As much as there's brutality in almost any police force it seems the American one not only brutalise its citizens but also has very little in terms of accountability, there's no independent commission assigned to investigate it and since Internal Affairs is composed of peers of potential abusers it's also extremely ineffective. Contrast that with the aforementioned European countries, the police force goes through at minimum 3 years of training, they have to reach a Bachelor's level in Criminology. They aren't militarised, there's independent oversight, training is more focused on de-escalation, etc. Still there are incidents of brutalisation, cops being assholes, etc. but it's in a much lower level and degree than what I see from the US/Brazil cops. So no independent oversight of an extremely militarised branch of state power, coupled with the widespread presence of guns, little and bad training (including fostering a sense of cops fighting an "enemy", not being public servants), racism, a culture of protecting the in-group, and so on will inevitably lead to many fatal incidents. Getting out of this hole will be very difficult, politically I feel it's almost impossible since it will require extensive reforms in all levels of policing in the US, almost from the ground-up. I don't have any hope for this changing for the better anytime during my lifetime. It would require a mini-revolution of sorts across police forces in the USA...
- reverendsteveii 2y ago
LocalH 2y ago
Officer Bookman clearly saw the man as the aggressor, as many state laws and individuals assume in their daily worldview. ACAB
- dTal 2y ago
  Perhaps it is the case that in the overwhelming majority of cases that police respond to, the man is the aggressor. That does not make snap-discrimination right, but it may simply be an unreasonable thing to expect a career police officer not to pattern match, when they are forced to use their judgement in ambiguous circumstances every day. It may be tempting to hold every police officer personally responsible for their conduct, but that does not solve the systemic issue that if you put people in a position where they are constantly facing the worst of humanity, eventually they will begin to reflect it back.
  - LocalH 2y ago
    Exactly why the entire institution of policing needs top down reform. Fat chance of that happening in the modern era, however. ACAB because policing is broken. Fix the system, and cops will no longer be bastards. You can't fix a sufficiently broken system from the inside, no matter how hard you try.
- tartoran 2y ago
  > Officer Bookman clearly saw the man as the aggressor Just because he was a man or because he was a man and black at the same time? Black men must live in a constant fear of this happening to them. As a white person I also have this fear of police f__ing up but guess the likelihood of being shot by police innocently while being a black man is higher.
reverendsteveii 2y ago
If you ever have a problem, just call the police and then you'll have two problems.
PreInternet01 2y ago
[flagged]
fuzzythinker 2y ago
Think about the life long trauma of the daughter. Not only did she witness the multiple shooting that ended her father's life firsthand, she will have to live with the fact that she indirectly caused her father's death even if she can reason that it is no fault of hers.

18 points by tartoran 2y ago

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

When responding to a break and enter and you find two people fighting over a knife. How about next time you shoot the one wearing the ski-mask rather than the one in his underwear.

jmclnx 2y ago
They had knives, how about using a taser instead ? I have been saying for decades, regular cops in the US should not be allowed to carry guns. If they need help, call fully trained people with guns. Or maybe no guns unless they have a fully unblemished record, without any kind of complaint.
- kyleee 2y ago
  Tasers fail frequently and knives are extremely deadly within a certain range. Yours is a very unconsidered opinion; not really helpful to this debate.
  - dTal 2y ago
    Guns also fail frequently, in ways that are much deadlier to innocent and unprepared bystanders, as seen in the article. Perhaps tasers per se are not the answer, but there most certainly needs to be a range of nonlethal interventions available to police officers. The current system appears to be "turn up and make a snap decision who to murder to make the problem stop", which is - dare I say - a bad system. It is not even unreasonable to argue against giving government officials the power to simply end people on a whim at all.
    - kyleee 2y ago
      I don’t necessarily disagree overall, but what does that have to do with the point about knives being very dangerous in close quarters, and tasers being a very poor/risky choice to try to stop someone trying to harm you/another with a knife? That’s what I was commenting on…
tartoran 2y ago
Shot once then 4 more times. The policy is terrifying in the US. Many deaths could be avoidable with a policy change.
MrMember 2y ago
Even worse the victim's daughter provided a description of the intruder when she called 911 (a woman wearing a red hoodie). When the cop saw a woman wearing a red hoodie trying to stab a black man in his underwear he chose to shoot the black man in his underwear.
johnea 2y ago
> Mr Bookman then fires five more shots at Mr Durham and says "put your hands up" WTF?

quantified 2y ago

> Mr Bookman then fires five more shots at Mr Durham and says "put your hands up", body-worn camera footage released by police showed. Classic.

vinni2 2y ago

Why these kind of stories happen only in US? Makes me feel unsafe to live in US.

piva00 2y ago
As a non-US resident with experience from two very different police forces (Brazil vs Sweden) I'd say American police is much more similar to the Brazilian police rather than the Swedish (or Dutch, German, Danish, Norwegian, etc.) . Just as a background: Brazil's police has a rather odd setup, leftover from the military dictatorship, the investigative branch is called "civilian police" (Polícia Civil) while the one patrolling streets and enforcing day-to-day activities is the "military police" (Polícia Militar) which falls under the military branch command, but it's not the "military police" as the US Army one, as the Brazilian army police is "Polícia do Exército". To me, again as an outsider, the American police is very militarised, with very low training (and badly trained overall). The cultural aspects of the US around gun ownership also makes American cops much more trigger happy since in many places anyone could be carrying a gun. As much as there's brutality in almost any police force it seems the American one not only brutalise its citizens but also has very little in terms of accountability, there's no independent commission assigned to investigate it and since Internal Affairs is composed of peers of potential abusers it's also extremely ineffective. Contrast that with the aforementioned European countries, the police force goes through at minimum 3 years of training, they have to reach a Bachelor's level in Criminology. They aren't militarised, there's independent oversight, training is more focused on de-escalation, etc. Still there are incidents of brutalisation, cops being assholes, etc. but it's in a much lower level and degree than what I see from the US/Brazil cops. So no independent oversight of an extremely militarised branch of state power, coupled with the widespread presence of guns, little and bad training (including fostering a sense of cops fighting an "enemy", not being public servants), racism, a culture of protecting the in-group, and so on will inevitably lead to many fatal incidents. Getting out of this hole will be very difficult, politically I feel it's almost impossible since it will require extensive reforms in all levels of policing in the US, almost from the ground-up. I don't have any hope for this changing for the better anytime during my lifetime. It would require a mini-revolution of sorts across police forces in the USA...
reverendsteveii 2y ago

LocalH 2y ago

Officer Bookman clearly saw the man as the aggressor, as many state laws and individuals assume in their daily worldview. ACAB

dTal 2y ago
Perhaps it is the case that in the overwhelming majority of cases that police respond to, the man is the aggressor. That does not make snap-discrimination right, but it may simply be an unreasonable thing to expect a career police officer not to pattern match, when they are forced to use their judgement in ambiguous circumstances every day. It may be tempting to hold every police officer personally responsible for their conduct, but that does not solve the systemic issue that if you put people in a position where they are constantly facing the worst of humanity, eventually they will begin to reflect it back.
- LocalH 2y ago
  Exactly why the entire institution of policing needs top down reform. Fat chance of that happening in the modern era, however. ACAB because policing is broken. Fix the system, and cops will no longer be bastards. You can't fix a sufficiently broken system from the inside, no matter how hard you try.
tartoran 2y ago
> Officer Bookman clearly saw the man as the aggressor Just because he was a man or because he was a man and black at the same time? Black men must live in a constant fear of this happening to them. As a white person I also have this fear of police f__ing up but guess the likelihood of being shot by police innocently while being a black man is higher.

reverendsteveii 2y ago

If you ever have a problem, just call the police and then you'll have two problems.

PreInternet01 2y ago

[flagged]

fuzzythinker 2y ago

Think about the life long trauma of the daughter. Not only did she witness the multiple shooting that ended her father's life firsthand, she will have to live with the fact that she indirectly caused her father's death even if she can reason that it is no fault of hers.