4 ms·

> Very little of the shipping industry is US-flagged. That's true for international shipping, but for shipping between U.S. ports, the ships have to be U.S. fl

by elihu 2y ago

> Very little of the shipping industry is US-flagged. That's true for international shipping, but for shipping between U.S. ports, the ships have to be U.S. flagged due to the Jones act. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merchant_Marine_Act_of_1920 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merchant_Marine_Act_of_1920 I agree though that focusing on small U.S. flagged ships is not very representative of shipping in general.

bluGill 2y ago
There is very little shipping between us ports. Not zero, but not much.
- elihu 2y ago
  I can believe that.
- euroderf 2y ago
  Speculation: this system propped up by the long-distance trucking lobby.
  - Polizeiposaune 2y ago
    Longshoreman's union "touch fees" reportedly have a lot to do with it: https://capitalresearch.org/article/what-you-need-to-know-about-the-port-strike/ https://capitalresearch.org/article/what-you-need-to-know-ab... https://twitter.com/johnkonrad/status/1840904466310316459 https://twitter.com/johnkonrad/status/1840904466310316459 " it’s somehow cheaper to truck containers hundreds of miles and let taxpayers foot the road repair bill than let the union touch it two more times for short sea shipping to work."
    - mrguyorama 2y ago
      It's not the Longshoreman's union fault that truck drivers have zero leverage against their employers in comparison. If every form of transportation had strong unions, the system could find whatever healthy or natural distribution was actually economically efficient. More stuff would be sent by Train and Boat, both substantially more efficient in most cases, and both industries that suffer in the US from being ignored. Instead, so much of the US essentially just runs on Employee Coercion Arbitrage and we all suffer for it. We should be able to shop around transportation choices without exploiting underpaid workers. Realistically, a carbon tax would actually have the same outcome if you hate unions.
      - Polizeiposaune 2y ago
        The longshoreman's union is acting as a rent-seeking monopolist, which is behavior which is usually frowned upon when the actor isn't a union (and perhaps should be when it is).
      - Dylan16807 2y ago
        > It's not the Longshoreman's union fault that truck drivers have zero leverage against their employers in comparison. If that shipping method is cheaper than a union charge, then the union charge is too high. Even though yes truck drivers should be getting paid more. Like, okay, we could pay truck drivers twice as much and now it's only cheaper to truck the containers around 150 miles or whatever? That's still way too expensive. And a carbon tax doesn't fix this. It makes trucking more expensive but it doesn't make the charge for using a crane less expensive.
  - dghlsakjg 2y ago
    The Jones act goes back to before the existence of long distance trucking, and has so many interested parties just on the maritime side that it will take a shift in world order for it to change.
    - euroderf 2y ago
      "Son, custody of the Jones Act has been passed down from technology generation to technology generation..."
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > There is very little shipping between us ports. Not zero, but not much A one-shot solution to reducing inflation and emissions would be in repealing the Jones Act. (Also, increasing the prevalence of ferry transport.)

by elihu 2y ago

bluGill 2y ago

There is very little shipping between us ports. Not zero, but not much.

elihu 2y ago
I can believe that.
euroderf 2y ago
Speculation: this system propped up by the long-distance trucking lobby.
- Polizeiposaune 2y ago
  Longshoreman's union "touch fees" reportedly have a lot to do with it: https://capitalresearch.org/article/what-you-need-to-know-about-the-port-strike/ https://capitalresearch.org/article/what-you-need-to-know-ab... https://twitter.com/johnkonrad/status/1840904466310316459 https://twitter.com/johnkonrad/status/1840904466310316459 " it’s somehow cheaper to truck containers hundreds of miles and let taxpayers foot the road repair bill than let the union touch it two more times for short sea shipping to work."
  - mrguyorama 2y ago
    It's not the Longshoreman's union fault that truck drivers have zero leverage against their employers in comparison. If every form of transportation had strong unions, the system could find whatever healthy or natural distribution was actually economically efficient. More stuff would be sent by Train and Boat, both substantially more efficient in most cases, and both industries that suffer in the US from being ignored. Instead, so much of the US essentially just runs on Employee Coercion Arbitrage and we all suffer for it. We should be able to shop around transportation choices without exploiting underpaid workers. Realistically, a carbon tax would actually have the same outcome if you hate unions.
    - Polizeiposaune 2y ago
      The longshoreman's union is acting as a rent-seeking monopolist, which is behavior which is usually frowned upon when the actor isn't a union (and perhaps should be when it is).
    - Dylan16807 2y ago
      > It's not the Longshoreman's union fault that truck drivers have zero leverage against their employers in comparison. If that shipping method is cheaper than a union charge, then the union charge is too high. Even though yes truck drivers should be getting paid more. Like, okay, we could pay truck drivers twice as much and now it's only cheaper to truck the containers around 150 miles or whatever? That's still way too expensive. And a carbon tax doesn't fix this. It makes trucking more expensive but it doesn't make the charge for using a crane less expensive.
- dghlsakjg 2y ago
  The Jones act goes back to before the existence of long distance trucking, and has so many interested parties just on the maritime side that it will take a shift in world order for it to change.
  - euroderf 2y ago
    "Son, custody of the Jones Act has been passed down from technology generation to technology generation..."
JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> There is very little shipping between us ports. Not zero, but not much A one-shot solution to reducing inflation and emissions would be in repealing the Jones Act. (Also, increasing the prevalence of ferry transport.)