5 ms·

I.. I have no idea. I don't even know who Hammurabi is. Is there a point you're trying to make? If so, care to enlighten us without assuming we all have histor

by Carrok 2y ago

I.. I have no idea. I don't even know who Hammurabi is. Is there a point you're trying to make? If so, care to enlighten us without assuming we all have history degrees?

PittleyDunkin 2y ago
He's a rather famous chap: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hammurabi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hammurabi Regardless, I suspect there's a point being made about the timeless ineptitude of bureaucracy (even if I don't agree with it—some cultures are notably more competent at managing logistics of public works than other are).
6equj5 2y ago
> 229 If a builder builds a house for someone, and does not construct it properly, and the house which he built falls and kills its owner, then that builder shall be put to death. http://faculty.collin.edu/mbailey/hammurabi%27s%20laws.htm http://faculty.collin.edu/mbailey/hammurabi%27s%20laws.htm
- InDubioProRubio 2y ago
  Thus the builders guild began to charge 50 silver for insurrance yearly from its members, which resulted to all road projects having a yearly 100 silver talent cost-addition on start. 5 years after the code, the empire went bankrupt
yulker 2y ago
Not obscure enough of a figure to necessitate a history degree. Well known for being one of the first to establish building codes.
- tharkun__ 2y ago
  Yet many including myself have never heard of him. Would it have been so much to ask to put a Wikipedia link and nerd-snipe some of us in the process?
  - shiroiushi 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - johnnyanmac 2y ago
      >Hammurabi is best known for having issued the Code of Hammurabi, which he claimed to have received from Shamash, the Babylonian god of justice. Unlike earlier Sumerian law codes, such as the Code of Ur-Nammu, which had focused on compensating the victim of the crime, the Law of Hammurabi was one of the first law codes to place greater emphasis on the physical punishment of the perpetrator. I don't think Wikipedia gets to the point quickly enough for this context to be relevant.
      - shiroiushi 2y ago
        That's a valid point, but I was just responding to someone who claimed that Hammurabi was so obscure that (in their minds) no one had heard of him, and additionally complained that there was no Wikipedia link. I feel like I should have used LMGTFY. Whether the OP was making a poorly-articulated point by merely bringing up Hammurabi and expecting the reader to know about his history with building codes, I think, is a separate issue. Anyone with a basic education should have heard of Hammurabi, though they may have forgotten the specifics about him. And finding a Wikipedia link on your own is trivial.
        tharkun__ 2y ago
        I did not claim that he was obscure nor that no one had heard of him. I merely mentioned that your and other claims that "anyone with a high school education has to have heard of him" is bollocks. I have both a high school and university degree and have never heard of him and don't think I need to have. Now you even claim someone with a "basic education" should've heard of him (meaning someone that didn't even finish high school). If you doubt that, Google about different countries' school systems and what would go for "basic" education. That said you definitely would've nerd sniped me with a link and if these replies here on HN hadn't been there to catch my interest first I would have just googled him. Basically by trying to be a smart ass and belittling others you harmed your own cause so to speak.
- nasmorn 2y ago
  Just a degree in Sid Meiers Civilization
- vundercind 2y ago
  He’s in the curriculums lots and lots of US schools, as part of teaching about the rule of law and eventually the rise of modern liberal democracy. Maybe not so much in other countries? For anyone who went through that, he’s another “the mitochondria is the powerhouse of the cell”-type answer form 6th grade tests or whatever.
- selimthegrim 2y ago
  Also the namesake of a board game.
insane_dreamer 2y ago
Hammurabi is an ancient ruler of Mesopotamia/Babylon who is famous for establishing a written code of laws, of which copies inscribed in steles have survived to this day). I don't know of it's the earliest example of a written legal code but certainly one of the earliest that we have a record of. Among these laws were civil penalties for builders who performed shoddy workmanship: > If a builder constructs a house for a man but does not make it conform to specifications so that a wall then buckles, that builder shall make that wall sound using his own silver. By the way, the Romans also had building codes, and engineers who built bridges and roads were liable for the durability of those structures, thus a tradition of over-engineering.
- thaumasiotes 2y ago
  > I don't know if it's the earliest example of a written legal code but certainly one of the earliest that we have a record of. It isn't, but it was discovered early and benefited from intense popular interest in the Bible. Popular interest in Mesopotamian history fell off sharply as it turned out that history generally differed from what the Bible said. It's still very early, roughly the 18th century BC. >> If a builder constructs a house for a man but does not make it conform to specifications so that a wall then buckles, that builder shall make that wall sound using his own silver. This is obviously a statement about who bears liability for fixing the wall, but it's funnier if you imagine it as a requirement for the builder to repair the wall with silver bricks, as a penalty for the original shoddy work.
fragmede 2y ago
one of my classmates really resented having to take GE classes outside his major in order to graduate but looking back on it, he said they really helped him out in ways he didn't expect.
HPsquared 2y ago
The antithesis to the "limited liability corporation".
mrexroad 2y ago
To be fair, Hammurabi’s code is often taught in middle/high school social studies (history).
- Carrok 2y ago
  Funny, I graduated middle and high school, paid attention in class, and have never heard of him. It's almost like different states and school districts have different curricula.
buildsjets 2y ago
Wow. This was basic secondary school history when I was educated. The code of Hammurabi is considered the basis of the western judicial tradition. This baseline knowledge I would expect in any peer, it does not require a specialized degree or study. The collective infantilization of our scholastic standards is frightening.
- vundercind 2y ago
  It's still in there. You can find the US state standards used to set baseline requirements ("learning standards") for school district curriculums online, for most (all?) states. Let's take an infamously-bad state for education ("Thank God For Mississippi") and famously good one (Massachussetts). Cmd/ctrl-F "hamm" on this one to find it for Mississippi: https://www.mdek12.org/sites/default/files/Page_Docs/final_2018_mississippi_ccr_social_studies_standards.pdf https://www.mdek12.org/sites/default/files/Page_Docs/final_2... (Theirs is a little weird [probably because their government's, you know, bad] and this comes from a non-profit organization, but it seems to in-fact be the official curriculum standards for their actual BOE, as well) Here's Massachusetts: https://www.doe.mass.edu/frameworks/hss/2018-12.pdf https://www.doe.mass.edu/frameworks/hss/2018-12.pdf Same deal, you'll find it with a search ("Hamm" also finds one occurrence of Muhammad, in this case, though, but it does get a few hits on Hammurabi) A person may have missed it due to: 1) going to schools outside the US that maybe don't emphasize Hammurabi, or 2) moving between US school systems that don't teach Hammurabi in the same year(s), such that they leave one before it's taught and arrive at the other after it's been taught.
  - jayrot 2y ago
    Another very likely explanation is that it WAS taught, but was simply forgotten. Which is completely forgivable. It's not like 6th grade had an intensive 3 month unit on Hammurabi.

by Carrok 2y ago

I.. I have no idea. I don't even know who Hammurabi is. Is there a point you're trying to make? If so, care to enlighten us without assuming we all have history degrees?

PittleyDunkin 2y ago

He's a rather famous chap: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hammurabi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hammurabi Regardless, I suspect there's a point being made about the timeless ineptitude of bureaucracy (even if I don't agree with it—some cultures are notably more competent at managing logistics of public works than other are).

6equj5 2y ago

> 229 If a builder builds a house for someone, and does not construct it properly, and the house which he built falls and kills its owner, then that builder shall be put to death. http://faculty.collin.edu/mbailey/hammurabi%27s%20laws.htm http://faculty.collin.edu/mbailey/hammurabi%27s%20laws.htm

InDubioProRubio 2y ago
Thus the builders guild began to charge 50 silver for insurrance yearly from its members, which resulted to all road projects having a yearly 100 silver talent cost-addition on start. 5 years after the code, the empire went bankrupt

yulker 2y ago

Not obscure enough of a figure to necessitate a history degree. Well known for being one of the first to establish building codes.

tharkun__ 2y ago
Yet many including myself have never heard of him. Would it have been so much to ask to put a Wikipedia link and nerd-snipe some of us in the process?
- shiroiushi 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - johnnyanmac 2y ago
    >Hammurabi is best known for having issued the Code of Hammurabi, which he claimed to have received from Shamash, the Babylonian god of justice. Unlike earlier Sumerian law codes, such as the Code of Ur-Nammu, which had focused on compensating the victim of the crime, the Law of Hammurabi was one of the first law codes to place greater emphasis on the physical punishment of the perpetrator. I don't think Wikipedia gets to the point quickly enough for this context to be relevant.
    - shiroiushi 2y ago
      That's a valid point, but I was just responding to someone who claimed that Hammurabi was so obscure that (in their minds) no one had heard of him, and additionally complained that there was no Wikipedia link. I feel like I should have used LMGTFY. Whether the OP was making a poorly-articulated point by merely bringing up Hammurabi and expecting the reader to know about his history with building codes, I think, is a separate issue. Anyone with a basic education should have heard of Hammurabi, though they may have forgotten the specifics about him. And finding a Wikipedia link on your own is trivial.
      - tharkun__ 2y ago
        I did not claim that he was obscure nor that no one had heard of him. I merely mentioned that your and other claims that "anyone with a high school education has to have heard of him" is bollocks. I have both a high school and university degree and have never heard of him and don't think I need to have. Now you even claim someone with a "basic education" should've heard of him (meaning someone that didn't even finish high school). If you doubt that, Google about different countries' school systems and what would go for "basic" education. That said you definitely would've nerd sniped me with a link and if these replies here on HN hadn't been there to catch my interest first I would have just googled him. Basically by trying to be a smart ass and belittling others you harmed your own cause so to speak.
nasmorn 2y ago
Just a degree in Sid Meiers Civilization
vundercind 2y ago
He’s in the curriculums lots and lots of US schools, as part of teaching about the rule of law and eventually the rise of modern liberal democracy. Maybe not so much in other countries? For anyone who went through that, he’s another “the mitochondria is the powerhouse of the cell”-type answer form 6th grade tests or whatever.
selimthegrim 2y ago
Also the namesake of a board game.

insane_dreamer 2y ago

Hammurabi is an ancient ruler of Mesopotamia/Babylon who is famous for establishing a written code of laws, of which copies inscribed in steles have survived to this day). I don't know of it's the earliest example of a written legal code but certainly one of the earliest that we have a record of. Among these laws were civil penalties for builders who performed shoddy workmanship: > If a builder constructs a house for a man but does not make it conform to specifications so that a wall then buckles, that builder shall make that wall sound using his own silver. By the way, the Romans also had building codes, and engineers who built bridges and roads were liable for the durability of those structures, thus a tradition of over-engineering.

thaumasiotes 2y ago
> I don't know if it's the earliest example of a written legal code but certainly one of the earliest that we have a record of. It isn't, but it was discovered early and benefited from intense popular interest in the Bible. Popular interest in Mesopotamian history fell off sharply as it turned out that history generally differed from what the Bible said. It's still very early, roughly the 18th century BC. >> If a builder constructs a house for a man but does not make it conform to specifications so that a wall then buckles, that builder shall make that wall sound using his own silver. This is obviously a statement about who bears liability for fixing the wall, but it's funnier if you imagine it as a requirement for the builder to repair the wall with silver bricks, as a penalty for the original shoddy work.

fragmede 2y ago

one of my classmates really resented having to take GE classes outside his major in order to graduate but looking back on it, he said they really helped him out in ways he didn't expect.

HPsquared 2y ago

The antithesis to the "limited liability corporation".

mrexroad 2y ago

To be fair, Hammurabi’s code is often taught in middle/high school social studies (history).

Carrok 2y ago
Funny, I graduated middle and high school, paid attention in class, and have never heard of him. It's almost like different states and school districts have different curricula.

buildsjets 2y ago

Wow. This was basic secondary school history when I was educated. The code of Hammurabi is considered the basis of the western judicial tradition. This baseline knowledge I would expect in any peer, it does not require a specialized degree or study. The collective infantilization of our scholastic standards is frightening.

vundercind 2y ago
It's still in there. You can find the US state standards used to set baseline requirements ("learning standards") for school district curriculums online, for most (all?) states. Let's take an infamously-bad state for education ("Thank God For Mississippi") and famously good one (Massachussetts). Cmd/ctrl-F "hamm" on this one to find it for Mississippi: https://www.mdek12.org/sites/default/files/Page_Docs/final_2018_mississippi_ccr_social_studies_standards.pdf https://www.mdek12.org/sites/default/files/Page_Docs/final_2... (Theirs is a little weird [probably because their government's, you know, bad] and this comes from a non-profit organization, but it seems to in-fact be the official curriculum standards for their actual BOE, as well) Here's Massachusetts: https://www.doe.mass.edu/frameworks/hss/2018-12.pdf https://www.doe.mass.edu/frameworks/hss/2018-12.pdf Same deal, you'll find it with a search ("Hamm" also finds one occurrence of Muhammad, in this case, though, but it does get a few hits on Hammurabi) A person may have missed it due to: 1) going to schools outside the US that maybe don't emphasize Hammurabi, or 2) moving between US school systems that don't teach Hammurabi in the same year(s), such that they leave one before it's taught and arrive at the other after it's been taught.
- jayrot 2y ago
  Another very likely explanation is that it WAS taught, but was simply forgotten. Which is completely forgivable. It's not like 6th grade had an intensive 3 month unit on Hammurabi.