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After the Nordstream pipeline attacked and destroyed, its reasonable to expect shortened lifetimes for undersea cables and sattelites.
by cabirum 2y ago
After the Nordstream pipeline attacked and destroyed, its reasonable to expect shortened lifetimes for undersea cables and sattelites.
- trhway 2y agoit sounds like you've probably never seen this - tanker Minerva Julie (belonging to Putin's friends) traveling through the Baltic Sea suddenly decided to hang around for a week right at the same place where couple weeks later Nord Stream exploded: https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2023/03/16/23/68797949-11868975-Tracking_data_for_the_Minerva_Julie_shows_it_spent_around_a_week-a-69_1679009700913.jpg https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2023/03/16/23/68797949-11868975...
- Lichtso 2y agohttps://www.nytimes.com/2024/08/14/world/europe/nord-stream-explosion-germany-ukraine-arrest-warrant.html https://www.nytimes.com/2024/08/14/world/europe/nord-stream-...
- baybal2 2y ago[dead]
- PittleyDunkin 2y agohttps://english.almayadeen.net/news/politics/us-navy-was-at-scene-of-nord-stream-blasts--danish-media https://english.almayadeen.net/news/politics/us-navy-was-at-...
- mcphage 2y agoI think it's pretty clear that the NordStream explosion was a joint US-Russia-Ukraine operation.
- credit_guy 2y agoAnd Soros was the mastermind.
- burnt-resistor 2y agoI'm waiting for Nazis and Jews to be blamed because Godwin's law after all. The US destroyed the Nordstream pipeline for certain and Sy Hersh has the evidence. It is more than probable that this incident indicates possible collusion between the Chinese and Russian governments to sabotage European interests. The simplest fix is for Sweden and Denmark to ban Chinese and Russian ships from their territorial waters until they deliver accountable assurances that this sort of behavior will not happen again. Until then, they must be stopped and European countries must play hardball because that's the only language these criminals understand.
- nradov 2y agoSy Hersh's wild fantasy has already been debunked. He might have a few pieces of the story right but many of his claims are contradicted by reliable open source intelligence. This is what always happens when a journalist works without an editor and rushes to publish before doing through fact checking.
- PittleyDunkin 2y agoHell, throw sweden in there too: https://omni.se/marinen-pa-plats-dagarna-fore-explosionerna/a/xg8mL8 https://omni.se/marinen-pa-plats-dagarna-fore-explosionerna/...
- secondcoming 2y agoNope, it was definitely Poland trying to maximise on their gas connection to Norway. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baltic_Pipe https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baltic_Pipe
- jeltz 2y ago
- tsimionescu 2y agoYes, of course Putin decided to sabotage the largest infrastructure investment in his country's history, that he worked for a decade to get built.
- trhway 2y agoPutin sabotaged the 3 centuries of Russia’s progress. The pipeline is just a noise here. >he worked for a decade to get built that is sweet of you. I just imagine Putin himself welding under water. Not the billions dollars steal by his childhood buddies what typically such Russian megaprojects are.
- burnt-resistor 2y agoIt's probable the US and possibly Norway did it under cover of BALTOPS 22. https://seymourhersh.substack.com/p/how-america-took-out-the-nord-stream https://seymourhersh.substack.com/p/how-america-took-out-the... Snopes only offers FUD but not a single contradiction or refutation of any of Sy Hersh's reporting or claims other than it boils down to "it relies on a single source". Sometimes, in secret operations, that's the reality. There exist genuine anonymous sources who cannot be revealed themselves. Part of the principle of benefit-of-the-doubt is trusting that Sy Hersh isn't merely looking for a quick payday to sellout his journalistic integrity for a few dollars and that he isn't an easily-fooled novice when it comes to doing due-diligence on sources and facts. It's mostly a disrespectful hit-piece lacking in evidence. With all likelihood, like the identity of Deep Throat, the truth will come out once the source retires and write a book about it. https://www.snopes.com/news/2023/02/10/hersh-nord-stream-sabotage/ https://www.snopes.com/news/2023/02/10/hersh-nord-stream-sab...
- groby_b 2y agoIf it weren't Sy Hersh, this might be more believable. The guy has been putting some distance between himself and reality for over a decade now. (Could it be true? Maybe. IDK. No dog in that particular fight. But if you, as an anonymous source, go to Sy Hersh, you're an idiot or don't want large numbers of people to believe what you're saying. Occam's razor suggests the former)
- nradov 2y agoYes, this is why having a prompt satellite launch capability to replace attrition losses is now a strategic imperative. We need to be able to put up new ones in a matter of hours, not months.
- Gud 2y agoIf someone starts blowing up satellites it’s pretty much game over for space based communications. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kessler_syndrome https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kessler_syndrome
- nradov 2y agoThe military is shifting toward LEO constellations for communications such as SpaceX Starshield. Kessler syndrome isn't a serious concern for those because the orbits decay fairly quickly anyway.
- yencabulator 2y agoThat "quickly" is on the order of years (as opposed to decades, centuries, etc). If the Starlink constellation goes boom, you can't start launching new ones for several years -- and then the build-up would take years, from there.
- nradov 2y agoNah. In any major future conflict, the combatants will go ahead and launch replacement satellites immediately regardless of the risks or long-term consequences (or they'll do it at least as long as their manufacturing and launch facilities survive). A constellation of hundreds of satellites can't go "boom" all at once. Even with a bunch of orbital debris floating around the hazards will be sparse and some satellites will live long enough to be operationally useful.
- yencabulator 2y agoFor the purposes of the crisis, sure. But commerce and average consumer internet access will suffer hugely. Similarly, severing the sea cable had no direct military effect, but was economic damage. Kessler syndrome is still a serious concern even in LEO, just not to the same extent of practically denying access to space for the foreseeable future.
- indymike 2y ago> After the Nordstream pipeline attacked and destroyed This happend a very, very long time ago. Destroing things years after the fact is not logical and is not longer a defensive response. Using this as justification is just trying to escalate. > its reasonable to expect shortened lifetimes for undersea cables and sattelites Why is this reasonable? It seems like a pointless attack that achieves little other than reminding the world that horrible, oppessive governments are dangerous to everyone. Oppression is incredibly expensive for humanity, and only benefits the few that are the oppressors.
- mglz 2y ago> This happend a very, very long time ago. It happened on 26. September 2022. That is not a long time ago. > It seems like a pointless attack that achieves little other than reminding the world that horrible, oppessive governments are dangerous to everyone It sends a message, as sabotaging communications is frequently done before an attack. Also it damages morale and is a show of power.
- throwaway829 2y ago"very, very long time ago", it was two years ago.
- allenrb 2y agoUndersea satellites? You know, like after a launch failure.
- ajross 2y agoI think Nordstream is more of a special case. It was clandestine, but definitely not terrorism. It was an attack on enemy infrastructure in pursuit of an actual, real-life shooting war. One can argue that it was a bad (or good) idea, or that it was/wasn't effetive, or even that its externalities were beneficial in the long term, etc... But it's not really in the same category as casually cutting internet lines to your peacetime competitors out of pique or whatever.
- RandomThoughts3 2y agoNordstream is also special because its destruction was not aligned with Russia interests. It limited Europe capacity to import Russian gaz lifting one of the reason which might have made the EU reluctent to fully support Ukraine (and causing a major economic crisis in Europe as a side effect). Between this and the coyness of most European countries governments at the time to comment on investigation, it's not too far fetch to think that Ukraine might be involved.
- poutrathor 2y agoWasn't the nordstream incident mostly elucidated ? I believe they are only wondering about details now and trying to hear the guys. https://www.wsj.com/world/europe/nord-stream-pipeline-explosion-real-story-da24839c https://www.wsj.com/world/europe/nord-stream-pipeline-explos... https://www.intelligenceonline.com/government-intelligence/2023/09/26/on-the-ukrainian-trail-of-the-nord-stream-saboteurs,110057638-fac https://www.intelligenceonline.com/government-intelligence/2... https://www.france24.com/fr/europe/20240814-sabotage-de-nord-stream-la-piste-ukrainienne-se-confirme-un-mandat-d-arr%C3%AAt-%C3%A9mis-par-l-allemagne https://www.france24.com/fr/europe/20240814-sabotage-de-nord...
- ajross 2y agoThe problem with Nordstream conspiracies was in fact that you could easily finger anyone as responsible, absolutely including Putin. The benefit to Putin (not "Russia" per se) is that it eliminated the revenue source from gas sales to Europe in the immediate term, and thus made "end the war now" less attractive to his domestic power base (because it wouldn't make them any more money for a few years). A coup from disaffected underlings unhappy with the status of the Ukraine war is hardly a weird theory. He's fought off one already!