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Germany was told to stop buying Russian gas financing the Russian war machine by the previous Trump administration. They were told to pledge 2% of their GDP for

by petre 2y ago

Germany was told to stop buying Russian gas financing the Russian war machine by the previous Trump administration. They were told to pledge 2% of their GDP for defense, contributing more to NATO. They didn't listen. This is what happened: Ukraine got invaded, the pipeline was blown up to ensure compliance, their defense spending reachd 2% this year, more two years too late in a worse economic climate. Next year, the next Trump administration is going to demand more, because 2% is already insufficient. https://www.dw.com/en/germany-to-hit-nato-budget-goal-for-1st-time-since-cold-war/a-68254361 https://www.dw.com/en/germany-to-hit-nato-budget-goal-for-1s...

throwaway290 2y ago
Don't forget how Germany's exports of chips and machinery to places like Kyrgyzstan skyrocketed since the invasion. > Exports of motor vehicles and motor vehicle parts to Kyrgyzstan grew particularly strongly in the first quarter, soaring more than 4,000% from a very small base to over 84 million euros... That came after a six-fold rise in German exports to Kyrgyzstan last year following Russia's February 2022 invasion of Ukraine. https://www.reuters.com/world/german-exports-russias-neighbours-fuel-sanctions-evasion-fears-2023-05-16/ https://www.reuters.com/world/german-exports-russias-neighbo... I know people in Kyrgyzstan, trust me they did not suddenly become industrialized when Russia invaded Anecdotally, as a Russian, some of my craziest interactions with foreigners who support the thugs in Russian gov, blame US/NATO for Russian aggression and totally buy the propaganda were with Germans. (Not a proper data point, just venting frustration, Germany get your act together...)
- chii 2y ago
  With the gov't coalition collapse in germany, there's definitely some voices that oppose western actino against russia (adf is one, see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hG4bxFKBNos https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hG4bxFKBNos). I can't help but suspect that russian influence and covert action behind the scenes, most of which might be decades in the making, is kicking into high gear.
  - throwaway290 2y ago
    This is my impression, too.
- hackandthink 2y ago
  >who support the thugs in Russian gov You can't defeat them, the NATO strategy has failed. I sympathize with the Russian opposition, but I think it is wrong to interfere in Russian domestic politics. Apart from that, I have always been suspicious of the West's favorite oligarchs.
  - throwaway290 2y ago
    Calling it "Russian domestic politics" just invalidates in my eyes any other argument you make. Because it is so plainly not
- holowoodman 2y ago
  Half of Germany was, for roughly 4 decades, a soviet puppet state. With indoctrination programs, propaganda towards the western part, cadre schools, the whole deal. And even in West Germany the soviets always had a lot of support, especially in the burgeoise (yes, the irony...) upper layers of society. Socialism and communism weren't just invented here out of thin air and such. This means that a good part of especially the general former East German population as well as the academic and cultural upper class are left-leaning (in USian terms: deep red communists), soviet/russia-supporting and antiamerican by default. This got even stronger the farther we got past the 1990s, because the view back on the communist times naturally lost the memories of the bad parts.
  - throwaway290 2y ago
    I always ask Germans which side of the wall they are from, it seems like East Germans are a bit more disillusioned or realistic but people from West parts can be ardent supporters of Putin

by petre 2y ago

throwaway290 2y ago

Don't forget how Germany's exports of chips and machinery to places like Kyrgyzstan skyrocketed since the invasion. > Exports of motor vehicles and motor vehicle parts to Kyrgyzstan grew particularly strongly in the first quarter, soaring more than 4,000% from a very small base to over 84 million euros... That came after a six-fold rise in German exports to Kyrgyzstan last year following Russia's February 2022 invasion of Ukraine. https://www.reuters.com/world/german-exports-russias-neighbours-fuel-sanctions-evasion-fears-2023-05-16/ https://www.reuters.com/world/german-exports-russias-neighbo... I know people in Kyrgyzstan, trust me they did not suddenly become industrialized when Russia invaded Anecdotally, as a Russian, some of my craziest interactions with foreigners who support the thugs in Russian gov, blame US/NATO for Russian aggression and totally buy the propaganda were with Germans. (Not a proper data point, just venting frustration, Germany get your act together...)

chii 2y ago
With the gov't coalition collapse in germany, there's definitely some voices that oppose western actino against russia (adf is one, see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hG4bxFKBNos https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hG4bxFKBNos). I can't help but suspect that russian influence and covert action behind the scenes, most of which might be decades in the making, is kicking into high gear.
- throwaway290 2y ago
  This is my impression, too.
hackandthink 2y ago
>who support the thugs in Russian gov You can't defeat them, the NATO strategy has failed. I sympathize with the Russian opposition, but I think it is wrong to interfere in Russian domestic politics. Apart from that, I have always been suspicious of the West's favorite oligarchs.
- throwaway290 2y ago
  Calling it "Russian domestic politics" just invalidates in my eyes any other argument you make. Because it is so plainly not
holowoodman 2y ago
Half of Germany was, for roughly 4 decades, a soviet puppet state. With indoctrination programs, propaganda towards the western part, cadre schools, the whole deal. And even in West Germany the soviets always had a lot of support, especially in the burgeoise (yes, the irony...) upper layers of society. Socialism and communism weren't just invented here out of thin air and such. This means that a good part of especially the general former East German population as well as the academic and cultural upper class are left-leaning (in USian terms: deep red communists), soviet/russia-supporting and antiamerican by default. This got even stronger the farther we got past the 1990s, because the view back on the communist times naturally lost the memories of the bad parts.
- throwaway290 2y ago
  I always ask Germans which side of the wall they are from, it seems like East Germans are a bit more disillusioned or realistic but people from West parts can be ardent supporters of Putin