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This is a misleading framing. The two cables last year were not taken out by an anchor as an accident, it was literally a ship putting down its anchor just befo
by Etheryte 2y ago
This is a misleading framing. The two cables last year were not taken out by an anchor as an accident, it was literally a ship putting down its anchor just before the cable and then dragging it over the cable. In other words, sabotage. There's no point in trying to color any of this with rose tinted glasses when it's clear who's done it and why.
- gorbachev 2y ago[flagged]
- dgfitz 2y agoWhen “coincidences” like this percolate up to the general public, I think it is in fact noteworthy.
- burkaman 2y agoThere is strong circumstantial evidence (https://www.politico.eu/article/balticconnector-damage-likely-to-be-intentional-finnish-minister-says-china-estonia/ https://www.politico.eu/article/balticconnector-damage-likel...) and an open Estonian investigation. None of us know whether or not there is direct evidence that has not been made public.
- SiempreViernes 2y agoStrong circumstantial evidence == minister said “I'm not the sea captain. But I would think that you would notice that you're dragging an anchor behind you for hundreds of kilometers”.
- gorbachev 2y agoSo no evidence then at all. It's just speculation.
- xp84 2y ago[flagged]
- rrr_oh_man 2y agoDon’t trust the Je… eh, Russians. I’m not sure whether you are serious with that xenophobic comment.
- theGeatZhopa 2y agodid you just say JEHOVAH? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cnn2aGVcCEc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cnn2aGVcCEc
- olivermuty 2y agoDon’t trust the Russians has been safe doctrine in europe for several decades. Bandit state.
- sabbaticaldev 2y agoSame is said about the english, spanish, french, dutch colonizers, still didn’t pay for wreaking the world in their favor.
- Sabinus 2y agoBut for the French they all got rid of their colonies. Russia's historical land empire lives on, and the breakup of their most recent greater one is mourned by their current leader. Lets have some perspective.
- sabbaticaldev 2y agogreat example, the french. Still encrusted north of brazil and calling themselves part of the Amazon. you really should have some perspective
- 2y ago
- gmerc 2y agoAt certain odds, statistical likelihood is evidence
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- brnt 2y agoAs is usually the case, before a crime is investigated. Hence investigations, good detectives, good hunches, etc.
- bashwizard 2y agoAnd then there's common sense. Something most people seems to lack.
- qingcharles 2y agoThey just released a statement saying it is sad that they have to be suspicious that it is, perhaps, sabotage: https://www.auswaertiges-amt.de/en/newsroom/news/-/2685132 https://www.auswaertiges-amt.de/en/newsroom/news/-/2685132
- account42 2y agoOh no, the EU is gasp deeply concerned.
- SiempreViernes 2y agoHave you filed your observations of the ships anchor at sea to the authorities? Because it does sound strange, if you indeed have a witness to this, that they dropped and then hoisted their anchors to damage infrastructure four times that day: > Swedish-Estonian telecoms cable at 1513 GMT, then over the Russian cable at around 2020 GMT, the [Balticconnector gas pipeline] at 2220 GMT and a Finland-Estonia telecoms line at 2349 GMT. https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russia-says-telecoms-cable-damaged-last-month-just-before-nearby-baltic-gas-2023-11-07/ https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russia-says-telecoms-ca...
- Aloisius 2y ago> it was literally a ship putting down its anchor just before the cable and then dragging it over the cable I don't understand. That's how I'd expect most accidents to happen. Someone decides to anchor too close to an undersea cable, the anchor fails to hold and the drifting ship drags the anchor over the cable damaging it. I'm not saying it wasn't sabotage, but there needs to be something a bit more than that. Source: have dragged anchors - thankfully never near undersea cables
- roenxi 2y agoI can only upvote. How does the anchor come into contact with the cable if not by that exact sequence of steps? The ship isn't sailing through the Gulf with its anchor down, it has to go near the cable, drop anchor then drag. Otherwise the cable and anchor will not interact. This is the only way an accident could happen (almost).
- Loudergood 2y agoThe problem comes when most of these cables land right at major ports.
- lrasinen 2y agoNew New Polar Bear (the Nov 2023 case) was definitely sailing down the Gulf with its anchor down. Estonian defense minister stated at the time there are drag tracks in the seabed for "over 185 km". (Source: https://www.hs.fi/maailma/art-2000010015226.html https://www.hs.fi/maailma/art-2000010015226.html)
- Maxion 2y agoThe case last year with the gas pipeline, the Chinese / Russian owned left Kaliningrad, and then while sailing, dropped its anchor before the pipeline and cable, and then dragged it over them, and then raised it. It was apparently accidental, yet both the Chinese and Russians didn't want the crew interviewed, the Estonian and the Finnish authorities both shrugged and didn't really care, and the Estonian energy prices were severly impacted for ~9 months. IMO very very likely sabotage, and brushed under the rug in fear of Russian escalation.
- randomcarbloke 2y agothe culprits have been getting chased around the north sea for the past two months suspected of attempting to perpetrate the same in other locations.
- stoperaticless 2y agoWell, you never know 100%. There is a small (really small) chance it was an accident. Just like there is a small chance that Al Capone was innocent man. (But really, it clearly has “Russia” written all over it)
- pelasaco 2y agojust to be honest, the Pipelines explosion, had "Russia" written all over it, except after investigation, and a possible culprit, i.e not Russia, then nobody wanted to discuss about it anymore. I think the hysteria is too high, people are thirsty for War, looks like..
- mciancia 2y ago> people are thirsty for War, looks like Russians, yes
- vasco 2y agoI wish I lived in a world where it's so easy to know who is good and who is evil and to pinpoint them so well.
- peutetre 2y agoYou do. Russia's invasion of Ukraine is not an ambiguous war. Russia is plainly in the wrong.
- FrustratedMonky 2y agoYeah. Lot of Russian Apologist. Russia invades Ukraine -> It is Biden's fault, he ordered it. Russia actually invading and killing -> It was NATO's fault for discussing admission. Like, Russia is actually 'doing the bad things'.
- pelasaco 2y ago
- a2800276 2y ago> when it's clear who's done it and why. Is it though? From my understanding it's clearly sabotage, but who's responsible is open to some debate. Compare to NordStream, it's still not officially determined who's responsible.
- lynx23 2y ago> officially determined who's responsible Becuase they are afraid to figure out the truth. It might not fit the propaganda narrative.
- oneshtein 2y agoFUD
- account42 2y agoIt's still not officially made public who's responsible.
- wedesoft 2y agoThere has been an arrest warrant for a Ukrainian diver. https://www.heise.de/en/news/Nord-Stream-Arrest-warrant-for-suspect-from-Ukraine-9834590.html https://www.heise.de/en/news/Nord-Stream-Arrest-warrant-for-...
- castigatio 2y agoBut this person is just speaking the truth - I worked for an ISP with cable landing stations. These cables went down several times a year due to physical damage of non nefarious kinds. It's not obvious that this malicious. It certainly might be but it's not a slam dunk.
- ajuc 2y agoYeah and if you shoot someone and they die it might be an unrelated heart attack.
- castigatio 2y agoDo you not understand probability? Or are you just suffering from confirmation bias?
- gruez 2y agoYeah but in this case, we don't know whether the guy in question actually got shot, only that he died. In that case it's premature to assume "this is murder".
- ajuc 2y agoChinese ship starting from Russian port went to sea, dropped the anchor just before the cables, dragged it over the cables, went away. Haven't reported anything. Declined requests to explain themselves. Sorry but it's bullshit.
- nbman102 2y agoIf this wasn't an accident, given the recent Biden escalation that allows ATACMS strikes in Kursk in could mean two things: 1) Russia hastily retaliated, which is out of character. You can accuse Russia of many things, but not of retaliating instantly (against the West, in Ukraine they probably do). 2) False flag in order to drum up pro-war sentiment in the West. If Biden escalates in the last weeks of his presidency, presumably to make it more difficult for Trump to negotiate, why would Russia take the bait and escalate? It does not make any sense.
- numeric83 2y ago"Escalate"? Allowing Ukraine to use the weapons it has to strike back at an aggressor in order to mitigate or reduce said aggressors ability to continue attacking is ... "escalation"? I don't think so. If anything artificial limits have been placed on Ukraine that are not placed on other nations (or in some cases proscribed terrorist organisations) purchasing or being "gifted" weapons. Whether those weapons are from the U.S., UK, France, Germany, Russia, RoK, whoever.
- scrps 2y agoThere are sadly a lot of Chamberlains these days with the wool pulled over their eyes.
- air3y 2y agoYes. Weapons hitting places deep inside Russia that haven't been hit before is escalation. Whether one favors the act or not isn't how a step is considered as escalation. Now the Russians might or might not take steps that the other side considers escalation.
- numeric83 2y agoUkraine has been hitting targets "deep" inside Russia for a long time now - further than ATACMS or the export Storm Shadow/SCALP-EG can reach. Whether Ukraine use their own weapons or those purchased/gifted from others seems irrelevant. This is Russia saying "we can hit you with weapons provided by other nations, but you cannot be allowed to hit us likewise" - it's pathetic. As for what Russia may do, they've been told publicly and privately by multiple nations: from the U.S., UK, and France, even China and India to wind their necks in with regard any nuclear escalation. However, they are very adept at asymmetric responses, and Putin has already said he would consider arming groups with anti-"western" sympathies - he probably already has.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- pvaldes 2y agoSame procedure this time https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/chinese-ship-investigated-over-sabotaged-baltic-sea-internet-cables/ar-AA1uqDFu https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/chinese-ship-investigat...