9 ms·

Only buy a magnetic keyboard for gaming

92 points by amichail 2y ago

tyleo 2y ago
I tried reading this article with genuine interest but the page crashed for me on iOS :( This seems to be happening more often in the back half of 2024. IGN crashes nearly every page view for me these days.
- TYPE_FASTER 2y ago
  Not to mention the popup that scrolled me back to the beginning of the article.
  - tyleo 2y ago
    Agreed. Also happened to me on this page and I’ve seen it become more common. I wonder if there is a common gaming-related ad service which does this since it feels like the EXACT behavior I see on IGN.
- relaxatorium 2y ago
  Incentivizing publishers to load massive amounts of third party JavaScript was an industry mistake and the people who write JavaScript for ads are profoundly irresponsible and unprofessional.
  - freehorse 2y ago
    Which is why i block all 3rd party js by default. If your website requires 3rd party js and it is not essential for me to really visit it, most prob i am just gonna close it.
- bschwindHN 2y ago
  This is because sites like this shove ads in every conceivable whitespace on the page, so you have ads/videos/images and JavaScript loading and executing from all corners of the internet. What was once a page that was supposed to give you text and images is now executing all kinds of shit you don't want or need, burning up your CPU and battery and giving you a truly horrible, janky experience even on newer phones or desktops. If you visit these sites on older phones, it's truly excruciating. All for some text of what could have been a comment on a site like this, or a blog post on a statically-hosted site which costs next to nothing to run. Here was my experience on an M1 Mac Mini with 16GB of RAM, in Safari with no extensions: https://imgur.com/RDv2n7Z https://imgur.com/RDv2n7Z This is why I have absolutely zero qualms with using an ad blocker to the fullest extent I can. I hate what these people do to computers.
  - tyleo 2y ago
    I love that you captured this! Ironically as I watched your video on Imgur, a full screen ad popped up over top of it on Imgur itself :,(
    - bschwindHN 2y ago
      The irony of uploading it to imgur is not lost on me :) I could host videos myself if I still had a 2 gigabit connection but that was left behind in my most recent move.
      - prophesi 2y ago
        I feel you there. And my recent move was into a city, too, that ended up having even less options than my previous suburban abode. They never laid down fiber here and still have no plans to.
    - AndrewStephens 2y ago
      Yeah, that link showed the intended content taking up about a quarter of my screen real estate with the rest being ads. It was a ad-inception.
  - keybored 2y ago
    That gif says it all. I was reading this article on an Iphone some hours ago. But gave up because of the ads.
    - wruza 2y ago
      Guys, just stop watching ads. Ads are so 201x. AdGuard is available on ios for at least a decade now. No, it’s not a separate “adblock browser”. It works as a content filtering rules source for Safari. It does not see what you’re doing or visiting (unless you insist in the settings).
  - js2 2y ago
    Here it is on an iPhone 13 mini running the latest iOS with AdGuard content blocker and Stop The Madness Pro extensions enabled: https://imgur.com/a/aBBvVum https://imgur.com/a/aBBvVum I can't load the page at all without the extensions. On AdGuard I'm using only the content blocker filters that don't have access to the page itself, not the advanced filter which does. The AdGuard content blocker is my favorite for Safari even on desktop. I can't imagine browsing without it enabled.
- elicksaur 2y ago
  I recently started using Firefox Focus enabled as an extension in iOS Safari, and it works great as an ad blocker. The op site loads for me. Was a hn rec from another thread I think. https://apps.apple.com/us/app/firefox-focus-privacy-browser/id1055677337 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/firefox-focus-privacy-browser/...
  - bee_rider 2y ago
    Same here. Hilarious that anti-annoyance software is now needed, not only to make sites nicer, but to make them functional.
- sfury 2y ago
  It's not even that good of an article. I tried to understand what Hall Effect is and what its advantages are, but it was so vague, beating around the bush and forwarding you to other articles on their site, that I gave up and searched on the YT mechanical keyboards channels instead. Here's a nice intro review of a Hall Effect keyboard, from Switch and Click, which explains its features and differences compared to a normal switch keyboard: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNANUquoXOA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNANUquoXOA
  - reaperducer 2y ago
    I tried to understand what Hall Effect is and what its advantages are, but it was so vague, beating around the bush and forwarding you to other articles on their site, that I gave up and searched on the YT mechanical keyboards channels instead. Hall effect switches have been used in model railroading for a couple of generations now. Very often to stop and start engines in hard-to-reach places with a wand. Here's an explanation: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hall_effect_sensor https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hall_effect_sensor
    - sfury 2y ago
      Much appreciated, glad to learn something new today.
- throwaway0394 2y ago
  iOS is genuinely terrible. I appreciate the point that so is web design for many sites, but even if you ignore that, 97% of bugs on our product with no cookies, ads, analytics etc come from iOS. My favourite time burner right now is when apple pushed for new viewport units and then don't respect them. Their address bar animated design is atrocious.
  - carlosjobim 2y ago
    iOS comes with the setting to open every web page in reader view by default, which kills all ads, cookie popus, autoplaying videos, sticky headers, etc. It's not hard to design beautiful and usable websites, which works on all devices from the past 10-15 years.
tyleo 2y ago
For anyone wondering, this is the keyboard in the image at the top of the article: https://nuphy.com/collections/he-keyboards/products/nuphy-field75-he-magnetic-switch-gaming-keyboard?variant=41482716971117 https://nuphy.com/collections/he-keyboards/products/nuphy-fi... I was intrigued by the design so I wanted to share.
- evgpbfhnr 2y ago
  Interesting, their configuration tool runs in browser and they explicitly mention linux; I don't have much experience with gaming keyboards but the only one I bought in the past had some windows-only configuration software and was a bit of a pain.
  - woodrowbarlow 2y ago
    (this keyboard does not appear to be QMK-based, but for the record) any keyboard that runs QMK (an open-source firmware for keyboards) will offer the same experience. web-based configurator and full linux support.
    - CorrectHorseBat 2y ago
      I think mean to say QMK?
    - tedivm 2y ago
      Nuphy's other keyboards, such as the Air v2 (which I own and use), are QMK based. It's just the hall effect keyboards that aren't.
  - red_admiral 2y ago
    Configuration stored _on the device_ and not needing the software to autorun every time you reboot to get your settings back, should really be a no-brainer. There's unfortunately enough gaming keyboards and mice out there who haven't got this yet.
    - 2y ago
eviks 2y ago
Analogue controls are indeed an awesome concept for a keyboard. Has anyone shipped any "revolutionary" default setups, e.g., from tiny things like making your pinky suffer less by having lower actuation point to making shallow actuation type lowercase and deeper actuation type uppercase or longer holds on arrow keys accelerating the movement? Pity, though, the progress is still stalled on the actual layout - the ergonomic splits and other improvements are still a tiny niche
- mkj 2y ago
  I wonder if with a sufficiently fast ADC measuring each switch's voltage transition, you might be able to do velocity detection with normal switches? I guess might need an ADC wired to each switch rather than row/column matrix scan.
  - Eisenstein 2y ago
    Considering that mechanical switches have to be debounced, how would that work?
    - mkj 2y ago
      I guess you'd record the curve of the first transition, and the after the debounce period has elapsed you'd use that curve to emit the appropriate key signal. Or alternatively you could use the whole analogue sequence as input for the key detection (assuming no limits on compute power etc). Neural net powered keystrokes!
  - bluGill 2y ago
    HE sensors measure distance, if you measure often enough get velocity out of that. Linear switches should be able to do the same thing (I know almost nothing about linear switches so I might be wrong) Edit: HE sensors not switches. HE naturally measures distance, but there are switches that have electronics that provide an on/off signal thus making the term switch not useful. If you buy a HE switch make sure you know which style you are getting.
  - evoke4908 2y ago
coreyh14444 2y ago
I learned about this on Optimum Tech on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Feny5bs2JCg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Feny5bs2JCg and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxEa7k8j1Ro https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxEa7k8j1Ro
chupasaurus 2y ago
Love the promotion of cheating features in gaming devices! /sarcasm
- lsaferite 2y ago
  I play single-player games from time-to-time and avoid multiplayer games as much as possible. Just out of curiosity, is there some vetting process for keyboards that qualifies them as "not cheating"? Any hardware advances in input/output devices could be considered an unfair advantage, right? If my keyboard is a simple, non-smart one with significantly lower latency than your keyboard, does that mean I'm cheating? At some point you have to draw a line and say 'this is acceptable' and 'that is not', who draws the line? Does the line move? When does it move? Cheating is going outside the defined rules of a game. If a specific game calls out that macros of any kind are forbidden, then great, that means some of the features of modern keyboards are cheating. Now, how do you police that? Pro-level competitive players are likely to be so fast and coordinated as to be close to indistinguishable from a well configured macro. Really, if you want to have limits on input devices, you need to codify that into the game, not say any advances in keyboard design are cheating. If using a macro lets a player be better than everyone else, limit the input capability to the level that is considered fair and don't worry about what keyboard someone is using. Otherwise, it's like complaining about someone using expensive high-refresh-rate gear and calling them a cheater.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - krageon 2y ago
    If you can't be detected then it can't be illegal. That makes the discussion of whether or not it's cheating immaterial. What you're describing in your second paragraph is how good anticheat works. It is inevitable and unfortunate (from the perspective of GP) that it must be tuned to near-olympic performance as the cap (or you risk punishing people who are just good, which is a really bad idea). edit: Of course, once you go down this rabbithole you start realising that olympic level performance is a freak accident of genetics, which is like having your own little biological "cheat". It makes you categorically better than other people at specific things. We return to the statement that figuring out whether that's cheating is immaterial. To my mind it's also a waste of time.
class3shock 2y ago
If you aren't a gamer is a keyboard with this tech worth looking at?
- ryukoposting 2y ago
  Do you fully press (or mostly fully press) your keys when you type? If so, then no, Hall Effect keyboards probably aren't going to get you anything a mechanical keyboard won't. The headline feature is extremely high sensitivity, i.e. you barely have to tap the key for it to register.
  - lsaferite 2y ago
    To me, the headline feature is full control of sensitivity, in real-time if you want. A standard mechanical keyboard has a fixed actuation point. If you want to change that you need to replace the switches. A Hall-Effect keyboard allows you to tune the actuation point exactly where you like. You can also tune the actuation and reset points independently and even in relation to each other. That allows you to have a reset on a slight raise of the finger without having to raise past as absolute point in travel. As an example of how the analog nature of HE keyboard could be useful, you could (in theory) set it up so that key repeat rate is adjusted based on how far past actuation you have the key. So, if I press harder the key repeats faster. Sure, you can solve the same problem with navigation shortcuts, but the point is that having a keyboard that captures an analog value for each key opens a wide range of possible use cases. I'm personally ecstatic that they are finally releasing Low-Profile HE keyboards.
    - ryukoposting 2y ago
      The tunable actuation/analog sensitivity are really cool, but I was trying to look at it from the perspective of a programmer. The tunable actuation might be nice if you have a very particular way of touch-typing, but I (and most people I know) fully depress keys as they type, or at least they come very close to it. I personally use low profile Gateron Browns in my Keychron K3 Pro, and I bottom them out on nearly every keystroke. And sure, the analog travel sensing is really cool too. You could make a keyboard do a lot of things with that, but as a dev I can't think of something I'd want my keyboard to do with that feature. One thing I do find exciting is the potential longevity of a keyswitch with no electrical contacts except for the ones that connect the key to the circuit board.
LoganDark 2y ago
I've never heard the term "magnetic keyboard" before. They're called hall-effect keyboards... For those not in the know, hall-effect key switches can tell the analog position of each key, rather than only whether it's pressed or not as in traditional key switches.
- digitalPhonix 2y ago
  Right, but the hall effect sensor measures the strength of a magnetic field. The key/switch has a little magnet on the stem and the hall effect sensor is measuring the strength of the magnetic field as the magnet moves up/further & down/closer to the sensor.
  - LoganDark 2y ago
    > Right, but the hall effect sensor measures the strength of a magnetic field. Yes I recognize that. But I've seen hall-effect keyboard many, many times and magnetic keyboard never (before this post). I guess some company decided to call their keyboard a magnetic keyboard and now a specific subset of people think they're all called that - even though they've been called hall-effect keyboards since their inception.
    - digitalPhonix 2y ago
      I don’t know the marketing reasons behind hall effect keyboard v/s magnetic keyboard, but a technical reason for calling it magnetic keyboard is that they are probably not actually using hall effect sensors. Hall effect sensor is commonly used to refer to any magnetic field sensor but there are many others types. Given the size of the keys I suspect they are actually MEMS Lorrentz force sensors, so “magnetic keyboard” might be more correct. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MEMS_magnetic_field_sensor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MEMS_magnetic_field_sensor
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
exceptione 2y ago
I hope the volume scroll could be used as mouse scroll.
- lsaferite 2y ago
  I currently run a Keychron K15 Pro and can easily remap my volume scroll as a mouse scroll (U/D or L/R or any combo). I can even have it on a different layer so it's volume control most of the time. In fact, I use the knob to control keyboard LED brightness on a secondary layer.
swayvil 2y ago
Omg to hell with that ad-infested site
- caboteria 2y ago
  What ads? https://ublockorigin.com/ https://ublockorigin.com/
  - pimlottc 2y ago
    I use uBlock Origin and there are still multiple affiliate-link "deal" inserts throughout the article
jansan 2y ago
There is (or was?) a Dutch keyboard maker called Wooting who has been offering alternative switches like optical and hall effect switches for a few years. I owned their Wooting One TKL and it was really nice. They always had issues with availability, and AFAIK they never offered a 70% HE keyboard, so I ended up with a Keychron with yellow mechanical switches. I still think those optical or HE switches are the best, and it was a bit sad to see that small Dutch company not getting their products out of the door. Edit: Thanks for the corrections in the comments below.
- lsaferite 2y ago
  Wooting is still around and still makes HE keyboards. They offer 60% and 80%, but not 70% models. Perhaps I'm just unaware, but I thought Wooting was the company behind HE keyboards becoming a commercial product. When they did their first HE keyboard I certainly didn't see any other HE keyboards on the market. I would still be using Wooting if they had a Low-profile HE version. It seems that while I've been not paying attention, HE keyboards have become a thing finally and, more importantly, Low-Profile HE keyboards are now a thing. This makes me super happy as I only use LP keyboards now days. I love my Keychron K15 Pro!
  - jansan 2y ago
    Yeah, they have a 80% HE keyboard on their website, but again only for preorder. I really wish for them that they can achieve the delivery by mid of December, but personally I will only consider buying one once they actually have it in stock.
    - bogwog 2y ago
      I actually bought their full-size HE keyboard (the Wooting Two HE) recently. It was out of stock on their website, but I was able to find a reseller that had them available pretty easily, and their price was only like $5 higher than on Wootings own website.
- VyseofArcadia 2y ago
  Wooting is in fact mentioned in TFA.
bdunks 2y ago
Does anyone have experience if these provide tactile feedback? There’s lots of discussion about the actuation point, but is there a “click” feel? I’ve had a lot of wrist strain issues over the last 20 years. I tried many “ergonomic” keyboard layouts, but ultimately switching to a standard ikcb CD108 with Cherry MX brown fixed my issue. The click stops me from mashing the keys too hard, which seems to be the primary root cause (for me).
- jansan 2y ago
  I had optical "clicky" switches in my Wooting One TKL, so it is possible. In hindsight I would not go for the clicky or even tactile ones again, but use linear switches, because the great thing about optical and HE switches is that you can select the actuation point to your own typing style, which of course is not possible with switches that provide mechanical feedback.
- bluGill 2y ago
  You can't easially do adjustable actuation points and a click feel so I doubt it. They can put a click in someplace, but that is a mechanical operation which means either it is fixed at the factory or you need to take a screwdriver (or something) to each key to adjust. The nice thing about hall effect switches is you can choose the actuation point(s!) in software making it quick and easy to change until you find what works, but software cannot adjust a mechanical click. I can think of a couple ways to adjust a mechanic click from software. You could put gears and a stepper motor in the keyboard to adjust where the click is (you of course need to design a click mechanism as the keys don't have it) - this would be complex, fragile, and expensive (likely large as well). You could put a coil under each switch and fire that when the key actuates to provide a force change. There are probably others. I have no idea how practical anything is, but I wouldn't discourage anyone from trying it if you are interested - it sounds like a fun project (of the type I don't have time for) This article is about GAMING keyboards. Magnetic keyboards seems to offer some nice features gamers will use. However for general typing a traditional mechanical keyboard may well be better: do not feel bad about using Cherry MX browns if they work for you (I use them myself, but I'm trying to figure out if my budget allows for a model F) - the only downside is in competitive games you may lose to someone who has a keyboard that can do things yours cannot.
account42 2y ago
Any review with referral links is not worth the electrons used to show it on your screen.
SigmundurM 2y ago
Would love to have a ergonomic hall effect keyboard! I daily drive the Moonlander, both for work and gaming, and it's honestly really good. Would be awesome to get a similar keyboard but with magnetic keys.
thesuitonym 2y ago
Reading this brought something to my mind that I had not yet considered. With the rise in popularity of esports, we're getting to a strange place where there is very professional gear for playing games, that is specifically suited to the high intensity, quick reactions of professional athlete. Whether you think that is an appropriate term is not an issue, people are getting paid for this and they play at a much different level that most of us plebes do. But then you have people who play casually--and let me be clear here, even if you are very good and only play ranked competitive matches, if it's not your job, you're who I'm talking about--who get this same gear. They deck themselves out like the pros for what is, essentially, a hobby. Is that weird? I don't know. People who head out to the local basketball court typically go with only a Spalding they bought at Walmart. Folks who play a little footy on the weekends might buy shin guards, but otherwise just head out to a field. I don't know where I'm really going with all this, it just seems odd that a person would say one should buy a keyboard that allows for 1mm actuation, when the vast, vast majority of game players wouldn't even be able to tell the difference.
- dghlsakjg 2y ago
  There are tons of sports where the amateurs end up buying top of the line gear. People will spend thousands to ride the same bikes the Tour de France riders do. You can spend crazy amounts on basketball shoes, sweat wicking synthetic shirts and all sorts of other gear that LeBron uses. If there is a sport that requires buying specialized equipment, there are people buying stuff that is completely unnecessary for their use case.
  - serallak 2y ago
    More so with "rich people" sports, like golf. One of the reason professional golf players get a lot of money for sponsorship deals.
- egypturnash 2y ago
  You get this everywhere. There's amateur photographers who have a super-expensive camera. Weekend artists with a cupboard full of the pricest paints and papers. Super-expensive bicycles that only get ridden a few days a year.
joloooo 2y ago
I bought a magnetic keyboard recommended on HN back in 2019. I was underwhelmed by it. Mostly because it was the Keystone and is still listed as "under production" on Kickstarter. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/lekashman/keystone-the-future-of-mechanical-keyboards/description https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/lekashman/keystone-the-... . I still hold out on hope that one day, it will magically arrive.
- mewse-hn 2y ago
  The Keystone keyboard is never going to ship. The Kono web store is currently doing a rug pull and scamming their customers.
- tartoran 2y ago
  > An Open Source Analog Keyboard with Adaptive Typing AI. So the keyboard learns your current mistakes and fixes them in the future. This sounds excellent except once you get used to having your mistakes fixed for you, you become dependent to this type of keyboard. Personally I'm not ready for AI keyboards, I like the control I have over what I type, mistakes and all. I hope it works out for you and get your moneys worth... How much did you pay for yours?
  - joloooo 2y ago
    I agree, I was primarily attracted to the modularity and magnetic features. Luckily, only $150 of 2019 money.
    - tartoran 2y ago
      Ouch, you've been waiting for 5 years?
      - Huppie 2y ago
        Not OP but IIRC it took over three years for my Keyboard.io Model 01 to arrive. I was afraid the money was lost at about the two year mark so it was a nice bonus when they finally started actually producing and shipping the thing. I've been more reluctant with kickstarters ever since...
paxys 2y ago
An ergonomic keyboard with good tactile feedback would be my holy grail. If someone knows of a good one, please send it my way.
- finnh 2y ago
  https://gaming.kinesis-ergo.com/product/freestyle-edge/ https://gaming.kinesis-ergo.com/product/freestyle-edge/
- atomic128 2y ago
  Kinesis Advantage2, brown switches, look no further. From the perspective of a programmer using vim, the Advantage2 is mankind's peak achievement in the field of computer keyboards. https://kinesis-ergo.com/keyboards/advantage2-keyboard/ https://kinesis-ergo.com/keyboards/advantage2-keyboard/
  - sss111 2y ago
    Can't imagine having this on my desk at work.. Wouldn't something like the moonlander be better?
    - atomic128 2y ago
      I type with the Advantage2 on my lap. The Advantage2 keyboard geometry gives you many landmarks, so even if you don't touch-type your hands can find the keys. In other words, even if you have poor keyboard technique (lifting your hands, pecking, etc.) this keyboard is a big win. Recommend you don't waste time on inferior alternatives like ZSA Moonlander, but maybe that will be your mistake ("learning opportunity") along the way to the peak.
      - sss111 2y ago
        oh that's brilliant. Can't do that with the moonlander.
Pet_Ant 2y ago
Are there are that are compatible magnetic switches that one could use as a drop in replacement?
- mechanicum 2y ago
  Unlikely, at least in the sense being discussed here. A Hall effect sensor works by running a constant current in one direction while measuring the potential difference in a different axis. The keyboard’s PCB needs to be able to register a range of values, not simply binary on-off. Regular keyboards aren’t equipped to do that. Typically in an HE keyboard, the sensors are mounted to the PCB. The “switch” itself is just a neodymium magnet at the end of a POM stem, in a polycarbonate housing with a spring. There are other kinds of magnetic switch that have historically been used in keyboards – e.g. Fujitsu used reed switches in the 70s – and in theory you could probably build them into a Cherry MX-compatible package. But they wouldn’t provide many of the benefits of HE keyboards, besides smoothness and reliability, and I’m not aware of anyone doing it.
  - Pet_Ant 2y ago
    Well then I really don't get the excitement unless the entire ecosystem shifts. That means abandoning all the existing PCBs and cases. So unless you are rocking a vanilla 104 key and willing to buy a completely new keyboard, you aren't gonna buy in.
    - mechanicum 2y ago
      It’s 100% a niche interest, they’re not going to become the mainstream option. But it’s a niche (competitive gamers and mechanical keyboard enthusiasts) with deep pockets, to whom “buying a new keyboard” is basically no barrier at all.
Larrikin 2y ago
I just don't get the obsession with eliminating the numpad. There are tons of interesting looking and innovative keyboards now and they all insist on making them as cramped as possible. It makes sense on a laptop. But, if I already need to have a clear place on my desk for the keyboard and mouse, I'd rather just use an extra 2 inches to have the full size keyboard with the numpad and arrow keys that are not crammed against the rest of the keyboard.
- bigstrat2003 2y ago
  Same man. Reduced size keyboards are absolutely awful to use and I have no idea how anyone can stand them. 100% or nothing.
  - yamazakiwi 2y ago
    They are not awful, you just don't like them for your use cases.
- blibble 2y ago
  if you have your left hand on WSAD and right hand on the mouse then having the numpad in the way makes the sitting posture less natural that's the reason
- Shorel 2y ago
  I want the option of having the numpad at the left side of the keyboard. The asymmetric nature of having it at the right side drives me crazy. I want my hands at the middle of the keyboard, not cramped to the left side, with so much space at the right, for keys I almost never use. Having said that, my current keyboard has no numpad.
  - Tsiklon 2y ago
    This layout exists, it’s a little rare, it’s called a “Southpaw” layout - vendors like Keychron have ready to ship models.
  - mitthrowaway2 2y ago
AngryData 2y ago
Many of the reasons for wanting a hall-effect keyboard are reasons I wouldn't want one, others I find no value in. I feel like the only people who would enjoy a hall effect keyboard are people using the tactile-less cherry red switches, which is only small fraction of keyboard users If the tactile feedback both existed and was adjustable, and didn't cost more than like 5-10% over a mechanical switch, it might take off more. But for now as neat as it is, it feels extremely niche. If someone wants different activation pressures and distances, they can buy different mechanical switches and would be missing out on basically nothing.
AcerbicZero 2y ago
This reminds me of that 3d printed magnetic ergo keyboard I see now and then, Svalboard I think? idk, I don't have a 3d printer, but if I did, I'd probably give it a try.
- TGower 2y ago
  Svalboard uses opto-interruptors, not hall effect sensors, though it does use magnets for return actuation instead of springs. The keys are either on or off, no floating point value like you get with hall effect so some of the features described in the article won't work. Source: currently working on an open source hall effect sensor keyboard similar to svalboard.
Night_Thastus 2y ago
We'll see. As of the latest testing, mechanicals still show the best single-key latency performance. I got an ROG Azoth awhile back for that reason. Would be nice to see how far they can push the technology though! Given that the time to physically press the key down is a part of the latency, Hall Effect could easily beat out Mechanical in the long run. After all, you can make it almost arbitrarily sensitive. EDIT: Looks like wired mechanicals at the top end are tied (0.8ms) with the best Halls (0.8ms) and a bit better than the best wireless 2.4Ghz (1.7ms). Mea culpa. We still need more test data on Halls in general though. Removed my comment about Wireless being better - though generally wireless 2.4 GHz beats out all but the top-end wired keyboards.
- core_dumped 2y ago
  Could you expand on the complicated reasons? Or have a resource handy? Is it Bluetooth wireless or 2.4GHz radio adapter wireless that’s faster?
  - ericbarrett 2y ago
    Among other things, the USB host polls the keyboard at a fixed rate. Fantastic breakdown if you have 30 minutes: https://youtu.be/wdgULBpRoXk https://youtu.be/wdgULBpRoXk
  - Night_Thastus 2y ago
    2.4GHz radio is faster than most wired connections - though the top-end ones with custom high-hertz implementations are slightly better than wireless. Radio is also generally significantly more consistent - even when the polling rates are identical. You can see this if you look at the testing done by RTings for mice and keyboards. The latency when using 2.4GHz wireless is extremely consistent, while for standard wired connections, the latency varies drastically from input to input. Bluetooth is crap and should never be used for gaming inputs. It's both high latency and inconsistent.
- lokl 2y ago
  Lower latency than PS/2?
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
bogwog 2y ago
I recently decided to upgrade my 10+ year old Corsair mechanical keyboard, and learned about these fancy magnetic ones. I ended up getting a Wooting Two HE and I love it. It definitely feels like a generational leap and I doubt I'll go back to mechanical. I'm not a competitive gamer, but being able to have so much control over the key activation is cooler than I expected. Also, having analog WASD movement in a first person game is super intuitive. Unfortunately, a lot of games don't support it because they try to be smart and switch between "gamepad mode" and "keyboard mode", not letting you use both at once. So you gotta do some research to find compatible ones (Half Life 2 works mostly, but climbing ladders is buggy) Also, even though I'm generally a fan of Corsair, I decided to not buy their magnetic keyboard even though it would've been an obvious progression from my previous one (which was excellent for over a decade). Why? Because Corsair's iCUE software sucks, and Wooting's is not only way better, it also officially supports Linux via an AppImage!
gorjusborg 2y ago
How do these Hall Effect switch based keyboards prevent spurious clicks when a non-key -based magnetic field comes near? Could I bring my neo magnets nearmy coworker and trigger keys?

92 points by amichail 2y ago

I tried reading this article with genuine interest but the page crashed for me on iOS :( This seems to be happening more often in the back half of 2024. IGN crashes nearly every page view for me these days.

TYPE_FASTER 2y ago
Not to mention the popup that scrolled me back to the beginning of the article.
- tyleo 2y ago
  Agreed. Also happened to me on this page and I’ve seen it become more common. I wonder if there is a common gaming-related ad service which does this since it feels like the EXACT behavior I see on IGN.
relaxatorium 2y ago
Incentivizing publishers to load massive amounts of third party JavaScript was an industry mistake and the people who write JavaScript for ads are profoundly irresponsible and unprofessional.
- freehorse 2y ago
  Which is why i block all 3rd party js by default. If your website requires 3rd party js and it is not essential for me to really visit it, most prob i am just gonna close it.
bschwindHN 2y ago
This is because sites like this shove ads in every conceivable whitespace on the page, so you have ads/videos/images and JavaScript loading and executing from all corners of the internet. What was once a page that was supposed to give you text and images is now executing all kinds of shit you don't want or need, burning up your CPU and battery and giving you a truly horrible, janky experience even on newer phones or desktops. If you visit these sites on older phones, it's truly excruciating. All for some text of what could have been a comment on a site like this, or a blog post on a statically-hosted site which costs next to nothing to run. Here was my experience on an M1 Mac Mini with 16GB of RAM, in Safari with no extensions: https://imgur.com/RDv2n7Z https://imgur.com/RDv2n7Z This is why I have absolutely zero qualms with using an ad blocker to the fullest extent I can. I hate what these people do to computers.
- tyleo 2y ago
  I love that you captured this! Ironically as I watched your video on Imgur, a full screen ad popped up over top of it on Imgur itself :,(
  - bschwindHN 2y ago
    The irony of uploading it to imgur is not lost on me :) I could host videos myself if I still had a 2 gigabit connection but that was left behind in my most recent move.
    - prophesi 2y ago
      I feel you there. And my recent move was into a city, too, that ended up having even less options than my previous suburban abode. They never laid down fiber here and still have no plans to.
  - AndrewStephens 2y ago
    Yeah, that link showed the intended content taking up about a quarter of my screen real estate with the rest being ads. It was a ad-inception.
- keybored 2y ago
  That gif says it all. I was reading this article on an Iphone some hours ago. But gave up because of the ads.
  - wruza 2y ago
    Guys, just stop watching ads. Ads are so 201x. AdGuard is available on ios for at least a decade now. No, it’s not a separate “adblock browser”. It works as a content filtering rules source for Safari. It does not see what you’re doing or visiting (unless you insist in the settings).
- js2 2y ago
  Here it is on an iPhone 13 mini running the latest iOS with AdGuard content blocker and Stop The Madness Pro extensions enabled: https://imgur.com/a/aBBvVum https://imgur.com/a/aBBvVum I can't load the page at all without the extensions. On AdGuard I'm using only the content blocker filters that don't have access to the page itself, not the advanced filter which does. The AdGuard content blocker is my favorite for Safari even on desktop. I can't imagine browsing without it enabled.
elicksaur 2y ago
I recently started using Firefox Focus enabled as an extension in iOS Safari, and it works great as an ad blocker. The op site loads for me. Was a hn rec from another thread I think. https://apps.apple.com/us/app/firefox-focus-privacy-browser/id1055677337 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/firefox-focus-privacy-browser/...
- bee_rider 2y ago
  Same here. Hilarious that anti-annoyance software is now needed, not only to make sites nicer, but to make them functional.
sfury 2y ago
It's not even that good of an article. I tried to understand what Hall Effect is and what its advantages are, but it was so vague, beating around the bush and forwarding you to other articles on their site, that I gave up and searched on the YT mechanical keyboards channels instead. Here's a nice intro review of a Hall Effect keyboard, from Switch and Click, which explains its features and differences compared to a normal switch keyboard: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNANUquoXOA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNANUquoXOA
- reaperducer 2y ago
  I tried to understand what Hall Effect is and what its advantages are, but it was so vague, beating around the bush and forwarding you to other articles on their site, that I gave up and searched on the YT mechanical keyboards channels instead. Hall effect switches have been used in model railroading for a couple of generations now. Very often to stop and start engines in hard-to-reach places with a wand. Here's an explanation: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hall_effect_sensor https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hall_effect_sensor
  - sfury 2y ago
    Much appreciated, glad to learn something new today.
throwaway0394 2y ago
iOS is genuinely terrible. I appreciate the point that so is web design for many sites, but even if you ignore that, 97% of bugs on our product with no cookies, ads, analytics etc come from iOS. My favourite time burner right now is when apple pushed for new viewport units and then don't respect them. Their address bar animated design is atrocious.
- carlosjobim 2y ago
  iOS comes with the setting to open every web page in reader view by default, which kills all ads, cookie popus, autoplaying videos, sticky headers, etc. It's not hard to design beautiful and usable websites, which works on all devices from the past 10-15 years.

tyleo 2y ago

For anyone wondering, this is the keyboard in the image at the top of the article: https://nuphy.com/collections/he-keyboards/products/nuphy-field75-he-magnetic-switch-gaming-keyboard?variant=41482716971117 https://nuphy.com/collections/he-keyboards/products/nuphy-fi... I was intrigued by the design so I wanted to share.

evgpbfhnr 2y ago
Interesting, their configuration tool runs in browser and they explicitly mention linux; I don't have much experience with gaming keyboards but the only one I bought in the past had some windows-only configuration software and was a bit of a pain.
- woodrowbarlow 2y ago
  (this keyboard does not appear to be QMK-based, but for the record) any keyboard that runs QMK (an open-source firmware for keyboards) will offer the same experience. web-based configurator and full linux support.
  - CorrectHorseBat 2y ago
    I think mean to say QMK?
  - tedivm 2y ago
    Nuphy's other keyboards, such as the Air v2 (which I own and use), are QMK based. It's just the hall effect keyboards that aren't.
- red_admiral 2y ago
  Configuration stored _on the device_ and not needing the software to autorun every time you reboot to get your settings back, should really be a no-brainer. There's unfortunately enough gaming keyboards and mice out there who haven't got this yet.
  - 2y ago

eviks 2y ago

Analogue controls are indeed an awesome concept for a keyboard. Has anyone shipped any "revolutionary" default setups, e.g., from tiny things like making your pinky suffer less by having lower actuation point to making shallow actuation type lowercase and deeper actuation type uppercase or longer holds on arrow keys accelerating the movement? Pity, though, the progress is still stalled on the actual layout - the ergonomic splits and other improvements are still a tiny niche

mkj 2y ago
I wonder if with a sufficiently fast ADC measuring each switch's voltage transition, you might be able to do velocity detection with normal switches? I guess might need an ADC wired to each switch rather than row/column matrix scan.
- Eisenstein 2y ago
  Considering that mechanical switches have to be debounced, how would that work?
  - mkj 2y ago
    I guess you'd record the curve of the first transition, and the after the debounce period has elapsed you'd use that curve to emit the appropriate key signal. Or alternatively you could use the whole analogue sequence as input for the key detection (assuming no limits on compute power etc). Neural net powered keystrokes!
- bluGill 2y ago
  HE sensors measure distance, if you measure often enough get velocity out of that. Linear switches should be able to do the same thing (I know almost nothing about linear switches so I might be wrong) Edit: HE sensors not switches. HE naturally measures distance, but there are switches that have electronics that provide an on/off signal thus making the term switch not useful. If you buy a HE switch make sure you know which style you are getting.
- evoke4908 2y ago

coreyh14444 2y ago

I learned about this on Optimum Tech on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Feny5bs2JCg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Feny5bs2JCg and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxEa7k8j1Ro https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxEa7k8j1Ro

chupasaurus 2y ago

Love the promotion of cheating features in gaming devices! /sarcasm

lsaferite 2y ago
I play single-player games from time-to-time and avoid multiplayer games as much as possible. Just out of curiosity, is there some vetting process for keyboards that qualifies them as "not cheating"? Any hardware advances in input/output devices could be considered an unfair advantage, right? If my keyboard is a simple, non-smart one with significantly lower latency than your keyboard, does that mean I'm cheating? At some point you have to draw a line and say 'this is acceptable' and 'that is not', who draws the line? Does the line move? When does it move? Cheating is going outside the defined rules of a game. If a specific game calls out that macros of any kind are forbidden, then great, that means some of the features of modern keyboards are cheating. Now, how do you police that? Pro-level competitive players are likely to be so fast and coordinated as to be close to indistinguishable from a well configured macro. Really, if you want to have limits on input devices, you need to codify that into the game, not say any advances in keyboard design are cheating. If using a macro lets a player be better than everyone else, limit the input capability to the level that is considered fair and don't worry about what keyboard someone is using. Otherwise, it's like complaining about someone using expensive high-refresh-rate gear and calling them a cheater.
- deleted 2y ago
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- krageon 2y ago
  If you can't be detected then it can't be illegal. That makes the discussion of whether or not it's cheating immaterial. What you're describing in your second paragraph is how good anticheat works. It is inevitable and unfortunate (from the perspective of GP) that it must be tuned to near-olympic performance as the cap (or you risk punishing people who are just good, which is a really bad idea). edit: Of course, once you go down this rabbithole you start realising that olympic level performance is a freak accident of genetics, which is like having your own little biological "cheat". It makes you categorically better than other people at specific things. We return to the statement that figuring out whether that's cheating is immaterial. To my mind it's also a waste of time.

class3shock 2y ago

If you aren't a gamer is a keyboard with this tech worth looking at?

ryukoposting 2y ago
Do you fully press (or mostly fully press) your keys when you type? If so, then no, Hall Effect keyboards probably aren't going to get you anything a mechanical keyboard won't. The headline feature is extremely high sensitivity, i.e. you barely have to tap the key for it to register.
- lsaferite 2y ago
  To me, the headline feature is full control of sensitivity, in real-time if you want. A standard mechanical keyboard has a fixed actuation point. If you want to change that you need to replace the switches. A Hall-Effect keyboard allows you to tune the actuation point exactly where you like. You can also tune the actuation and reset points independently and even in relation to each other. That allows you to have a reset on a slight raise of the finger without having to raise past as absolute point in travel. As an example of how the analog nature of HE keyboard could be useful, you could (in theory) set it up so that key repeat rate is adjusted based on how far past actuation you have the key. So, if I press harder the key repeats faster. Sure, you can solve the same problem with navigation shortcuts, but the point is that having a keyboard that captures an analog value for each key opens a wide range of possible use cases. I'm personally ecstatic that they are finally releasing Low-Profile HE keyboards.
  - ryukoposting 2y ago
    The tunable actuation/analog sensitivity are really cool, but I was trying to look at it from the perspective of a programmer. The tunable actuation might be nice if you have a very particular way of touch-typing, but I (and most people I know) fully depress keys as they type, or at least they come very close to it. I personally use low profile Gateron Browns in my Keychron K3 Pro, and I bottom them out on nearly every keystroke. And sure, the analog travel sensing is really cool too. You could make a keyboard do a lot of things with that, but as a dev I can't think of something I'd want my keyboard to do with that feature. One thing I do find exciting is the potential longevity of a keyswitch with no electrical contacts except for the ones that connect the key to the circuit board.

LoganDark 2y ago

I've never heard the term "magnetic keyboard" before. They're called hall-effect keyboards... For those not in the know, hall-effect key switches can tell the analog position of each key, rather than only whether it's pressed or not as in traditional key switches.

digitalPhonix 2y ago
Right, but the hall effect sensor measures the strength of a magnetic field. The key/switch has a little magnet on the stem and the hall effect sensor is measuring the strength of the magnetic field as the magnet moves up/further & down/closer to the sensor.
- LoganDark 2y ago
  > Right, but the hall effect sensor measures the strength of a magnetic field. Yes I recognize that. But I've seen hall-effect keyboard many, many times and magnetic keyboard never (before this post). I guess some company decided to call their keyboard a magnetic keyboard and now a specific subset of people think they're all called that - even though they've been called hall-effect keyboards since their inception.
  - digitalPhonix 2y ago
    I don’t know the marketing reasons behind hall effect keyboard v/s magnetic keyboard, but a technical reason for calling it magnetic keyboard is that they are probably not actually using hall effect sensors. Hall effect sensor is commonly used to refer to any magnetic field sensor but there are many others types. Given the size of the keys I suspect they are actually MEMS Lorrentz force sensors, so “magnetic keyboard” might be more correct. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MEMS_magnetic_field_sensor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MEMS_magnetic_field_sensor
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]

exceptione 2y ago

I hope the volume scroll could be used as mouse scroll.

lsaferite 2y ago
I currently run a Keychron K15 Pro and can easily remap my volume scroll as a mouse scroll (U/D or L/R or any combo). I can even have it on a different layer so it's volume control most of the time. In fact, I use the knob to control keyboard LED brightness on a secondary layer.

swayvil 2y ago

Omg to hell with that ad-infested site

caboteria 2y ago
What ads? https://ublockorigin.com/ https://ublockorigin.com/
- pimlottc 2y ago
  I use uBlock Origin and there are still multiple affiliate-link "deal" inserts throughout the article

jansan 2y ago

There is (or was?) a Dutch keyboard maker called Wooting who has been offering alternative switches like optical and hall effect switches for a few years. I owned their Wooting One TKL and it was really nice. They always had issues with availability, and AFAIK they never offered a 70% HE keyboard, so I ended up with a Keychron with yellow mechanical switches. I still think those optical or HE switches are the best, and it was a bit sad to see that small Dutch company not getting their products out of the door. Edit: Thanks for the corrections in the comments below.

lsaferite 2y ago
Wooting is still around and still makes HE keyboards. They offer 60% and 80%, but not 70% models. Perhaps I'm just unaware, but I thought Wooting was the company behind HE keyboards becoming a commercial product. When they did their first HE keyboard I certainly didn't see any other HE keyboards on the market. I would still be using Wooting if they had a Low-profile HE version. It seems that while I've been not paying attention, HE keyboards have become a thing finally and, more importantly, Low-Profile HE keyboards are now a thing. This makes me super happy as I only use LP keyboards now days. I love my Keychron K15 Pro!
- jansan 2y ago
  Yeah, they have a 80% HE keyboard on their website, but again only for preorder. I really wish for them that they can achieve the delivery by mid of December, but personally I will only consider buying one once they actually have it in stock.
  - bogwog 2y ago
    I actually bought their full-size HE keyboard (the Wooting Two HE) recently. It was out of stock on their website, but I was able to find a reseller that had them available pretty easily, and their price was only like $5 higher than on Wootings own website.
VyseofArcadia 2y ago
Wooting is in fact mentioned in TFA.

bdunks 2y ago

Does anyone have experience if these provide tactile feedback? There’s lots of discussion about the actuation point, but is there a “click” feel? I’ve had a lot of wrist strain issues over the last 20 years. I tried many “ergonomic” keyboard layouts, but ultimately switching to a standard ikcb CD108 with Cherry MX brown fixed my issue. The click stops me from mashing the keys too hard, which seems to be the primary root cause (for me).

jansan 2y ago
I had optical "clicky" switches in my Wooting One TKL, so it is possible. In hindsight I would not go for the clicky or even tactile ones again, but use linear switches, because the great thing about optical and HE switches is that you can select the actuation point to your own typing style, which of course is not possible with switches that provide mechanical feedback.
bluGill 2y ago
You can't easially do adjustable actuation points and a click feel so I doubt it. They can put a click in someplace, but that is a mechanical operation which means either it is fixed at the factory or you need to take a screwdriver (or something) to each key to adjust. The nice thing about hall effect switches is you can choose the actuation point(s!) in software making it quick and easy to change until you find what works, but software cannot adjust a mechanical click. I can think of a couple ways to adjust a mechanic click from software. You could put gears and a stepper motor in the keyboard to adjust where the click is (you of course need to design a click mechanism as the keys don't have it) - this would be complex, fragile, and expensive (likely large as well). You could put a coil under each switch and fire that when the key actuates to provide a force change. There are probably others. I have no idea how practical anything is, but I wouldn't discourage anyone from trying it if you are interested - it sounds like a fun project (of the type I don't have time for) This article is about GAMING keyboards. Magnetic keyboards seems to offer some nice features gamers will use. However for general typing a traditional mechanical keyboard may well be better: do not feel bad about using Cherry MX browns if they work for you (I use them myself, but I'm trying to figure out if my budget allows for a model F) - the only downside is in competitive games you may lose to someone who has a keyboard that can do things yours cannot.

account42 2y ago

Any review with referral links is not worth the electrons used to show it on your screen.

SigmundurM 2y ago

Would love to have a ergonomic hall effect keyboard! I daily drive the Moonlander, both for work and gaming, and it's honestly really good. Would be awesome to get a similar keyboard but with magnetic keys.

thesuitonym 2y ago

Reading this brought something to my mind that I had not yet considered. With the rise in popularity of esports, we're getting to a strange place where there is very professional gear for playing games, that is specifically suited to the high intensity, quick reactions of professional athlete. Whether you think that is an appropriate term is not an issue, people are getting paid for this and they play at a much different level that most of us plebes do. But then you have people who play casually--and let me be clear here, even if you are very good and only play ranked competitive matches, if it's not your job, you're who I'm talking about--who get this same gear. They deck themselves out like the pros for what is, essentially, a hobby. Is that weird? I don't know. People who head out to the local basketball court typically go with only a Spalding they bought at Walmart. Folks who play a little footy on the weekends might buy shin guards, but otherwise just head out to a field. I don't know where I'm really going with all this, it just seems odd that a person would say one should buy a keyboard that allows for 1mm actuation, when the vast, vast majority of game players wouldn't even be able to tell the difference.

dghlsakjg 2y ago
There are tons of sports where the amateurs end up buying top of the line gear. People will spend thousands to ride the same bikes the Tour de France riders do. You can spend crazy amounts on basketball shoes, sweat wicking synthetic shirts and all sorts of other gear that LeBron uses. If there is a sport that requires buying specialized equipment, there are people buying stuff that is completely unnecessary for their use case.
- serallak 2y ago
  More so with "rich people" sports, like golf. One of the reason professional golf players get a lot of money for sponsorship deals.
egypturnash 2y ago
You get this everywhere. There's amateur photographers who have a super-expensive camera. Weekend artists with a cupboard full of the pricest paints and papers. Super-expensive bicycles that only get ridden a few days a year.

joloooo 2y ago

I bought a magnetic keyboard recommended on HN back in 2019. I was underwhelmed by it. Mostly because it was the Keystone and is still listed as "under production" on Kickstarter. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/lekashman/keystone-the-future-of-mechanical-keyboards/description https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/lekashman/keystone-the-... . I still hold out on hope that one day, it will magically arrive.

mewse-hn 2y ago
The Keystone keyboard is never going to ship. The Kono web store is currently doing a rug pull and scamming their customers.
tartoran 2y ago
> An Open Source Analog Keyboard with Adaptive Typing AI. So the keyboard learns your current mistakes and fixes them in the future. This sounds excellent except once you get used to having your mistakes fixed for you, you become dependent to this type of keyboard. Personally I'm not ready for AI keyboards, I like the control I have over what I type, mistakes and all. I hope it works out for you and get your moneys worth... How much did you pay for yours?
- joloooo 2y ago
  I agree, I was primarily attracted to the modularity and magnetic features. Luckily, only $150 of 2019 money.
  - tartoran 2y ago
    Ouch, you've been waiting for 5 years?
    - Huppie 2y ago
      Not OP but IIRC it took over three years for my Keyboard.io Model 01 to arrive. I was afraid the money was lost at about the two year mark so it was a nice bonus when they finally started actually producing and shipping the thing. I've been more reluctant with kickstarters ever since...

paxys 2y ago

An ergonomic keyboard with good tactile feedback would be my holy grail. If someone knows of a good one, please send it my way.

finnh 2y ago
https://gaming.kinesis-ergo.com/product/freestyle-edge/ https://gaming.kinesis-ergo.com/product/freestyle-edge/
atomic128 2y ago
Kinesis Advantage2, brown switches, look no further. From the perspective of a programmer using vim, the Advantage2 is mankind's peak achievement in the field of computer keyboards. https://kinesis-ergo.com/keyboards/advantage2-keyboard/ https://kinesis-ergo.com/keyboards/advantage2-keyboard/
- sss111 2y ago
  Can't imagine having this on my desk at work.. Wouldn't something like the moonlander be better?
  - atomic128 2y ago
    I type with the Advantage2 on my lap. The Advantage2 keyboard geometry gives you many landmarks, so even if you don't touch-type your hands can find the keys. In other words, even if you have poor keyboard technique (lifting your hands, pecking, etc.) this keyboard is a big win. Recommend you don't waste time on inferior alternatives like ZSA Moonlander, but maybe that will be your mistake ("learning opportunity") along the way to the peak.
    - sss111 2y ago
      oh that's brilliant. Can't do that with the moonlander.

Pet_Ant 2y ago

Are there are that are compatible magnetic switches that one could use as a drop in replacement?

mechanicum 2y ago
Unlikely, at least in the sense being discussed here. A Hall effect sensor works by running a constant current in one direction while measuring the potential difference in a different axis. The keyboard’s PCB needs to be able to register a range of values, not simply binary on-off. Regular keyboards aren’t equipped to do that. Typically in an HE keyboard, the sensors are mounted to the PCB. The “switch” itself is just a neodymium magnet at the end of a POM stem, in a polycarbonate housing with a spring. There are other kinds of magnetic switch that have historically been used in keyboards – e.g. Fujitsu used reed switches in the 70s – and in theory you could probably build them into a Cherry MX-compatible package. But they wouldn’t provide many of the benefits of HE keyboards, besides smoothness and reliability, and I’m not aware of anyone doing it.
- Pet_Ant 2y ago
  Well then I really don't get the excitement unless the entire ecosystem shifts. That means abandoning all the existing PCBs and cases. So unless you are rocking a vanilla 104 key and willing to buy a completely new keyboard, you aren't gonna buy in.
  - mechanicum 2y ago
    It’s 100% a niche interest, they’re not going to become the mainstream option. But it’s a niche (competitive gamers and mechanical keyboard enthusiasts) with deep pockets, to whom “buying a new keyboard” is basically no barrier at all.

Larrikin 2y ago

I just don't get the obsession with eliminating the numpad. There are tons of interesting looking and innovative keyboards now and they all insist on making them as cramped as possible. It makes sense on a laptop. But, if I already need to have a clear place on my desk for the keyboard and mouse, I'd rather just use an extra 2 inches to have the full size keyboard with the numpad and arrow keys that are not crammed against the rest of the keyboard.

bigstrat2003 2y ago
Same man. Reduced size keyboards are absolutely awful to use and I have no idea how anyone can stand them. 100% or nothing.
- yamazakiwi 2y ago
  They are not awful, you just don't like them for your use cases.
blibble 2y ago
if you have your left hand on WSAD and right hand on the mouse then having the numpad in the way makes the sitting posture less natural that's the reason
Shorel 2y ago
I want the option of having the numpad at the left side of the keyboard. The asymmetric nature of having it at the right side drives me crazy. I want my hands at the middle of the keyboard, not cramped to the left side, with so much space at the right, for keys I almost never use. Having said that, my current keyboard has no numpad.
- Tsiklon 2y ago
  This layout exists, it’s a little rare, it’s called a “Southpaw” layout - vendors like Keychron have ready to ship models.
- mitthrowaway2 2y ago

AngryData 2y ago

Many of the reasons for wanting a hall-effect keyboard are reasons I wouldn't want one, others I find no value in. I feel like the only people who would enjoy a hall effect keyboard are people using the tactile-less cherry red switches, which is only small fraction of keyboard users If the tactile feedback both existed and was adjustable, and didn't cost more than like 5-10% over a mechanical switch, it might take off more. But for now as neat as it is, it feels extremely niche. If someone wants different activation pressures and distances, they can buy different mechanical switches and would be missing out on basically nothing.

AcerbicZero 2y ago

This reminds me of that 3d printed magnetic ergo keyboard I see now and then, Svalboard I think? idk, I don't have a 3d printer, but if I did, I'd probably give it a try.

TGower 2y ago
Svalboard uses opto-interruptors, not hall effect sensors, though it does use magnets for return actuation instead of springs. The keys are either on or off, no floating point value like you get with hall effect so some of the features described in the article won't work. Source: currently working on an open source hall effect sensor keyboard similar to svalboard.

Night_Thastus 2y ago

We'll see. As of the latest testing, mechanicals still show the best single-key latency performance. I got an ROG Azoth awhile back for that reason. Would be nice to see how far they can push the technology though! Given that the time to physically press the key down is a part of the latency, Hall Effect could easily beat out Mechanical in the long run. After all, you can make it almost arbitrarily sensitive. EDIT: Looks like wired mechanicals at the top end are tied (0.8ms) with the best Halls (0.8ms) and a bit better than the best wireless 2.4Ghz (1.7ms). Mea culpa. We still need more test data on Halls in general though. Removed my comment about Wireless being better - though generally wireless 2.4 GHz beats out all but the top-end wired keyboards.

core_dumped 2y ago
Could you expand on the complicated reasons? Or have a resource handy? Is it Bluetooth wireless or 2.4GHz radio adapter wireless that’s faster?
- ericbarrett 2y ago
  Among other things, the USB host polls the keyboard at a fixed rate. Fantastic breakdown if you have 30 minutes: https://youtu.be/wdgULBpRoXk https://youtu.be/wdgULBpRoXk
- Night_Thastus 2y ago
  2.4GHz radio is faster than most wired connections - though the top-end ones with custom high-hertz implementations are slightly better than wireless. Radio is also generally significantly more consistent - even when the polling rates are identical. You can see this if you look at the testing done by RTings for mice and keyboards. The latency when using 2.4GHz wireless is extremely consistent, while for standard wired connections, the latency varies drastically from input to input. Bluetooth is crap and should never be used for gaming inputs. It's both high latency and inconsistent.
lokl 2y ago
Lower latency than PS/2?

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

bogwog 2y ago

I recently decided to upgrade my 10+ year old Corsair mechanical keyboard, and learned about these fancy magnetic ones. I ended up getting a Wooting Two HE and I love it. It definitely feels like a generational leap and I doubt I'll go back to mechanical. I'm not a competitive gamer, but being able to have so much control over the key activation is cooler than I expected. Also, having analog WASD movement in a first person game is super intuitive. Unfortunately, a lot of games don't support it because they try to be smart and switch between "gamepad mode" and "keyboard mode", not letting you use both at once. So you gotta do some research to find compatible ones (Half Life 2 works mostly, but climbing ladders is buggy) Also, even though I'm generally a fan of Corsair, I decided to not buy their magnetic keyboard even though it would've been an obvious progression from my previous one (which was excellent for over a decade). Why? Because Corsair's iCUE software sucks, and Wooting's is not only way better, it also officially supports Linux via an AppImage!

gorjusborg 2y ago

How do these Hall Effect switch based keyboards prevent spurious clicks when a non-key -based magnetic field comes near? Could I bring my neo magnets nearmy coworker and trigger keys?