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Recently I someone living in Japan on Reddit who experienced a "they won't let me quit" scenario which may provide some perspective on what it's like: https://w

by grose 2y ago

Recently I someone living in Japan on Reddit who experienced a "they won't let me quit" scenario which may provide some perspective on what it's like: https://www.reddit.com/r/japanlife/comments/1gk4enr/current_job_refusing_to_go_forward_with/ https://www.reddit.com/r/japanlife/comments/1gk4enr/current_... https://www.reddit.com/r/japanlife/comments/1goyw04/end_of_a_saga_job_refusing_to_go_forward_with/ https://www.reddit.com/r/japanlife/comments/1goyw04/end_of_a... Personally (living in Japan) I've never experienced something like this, but it does happen.

presentation 2y ago
Yeah nobody I know has told me they’ve experienced this, but maybe it’s common amongst some groups and not others. Black companies are something else.
intellix 2y ago
why can't you just email them and stop turning up?
- Aeolun 2y ago
  It’ll become messy if they keep paying you?
- makeitdouble 2y ago
  Typical contracts will require a 1 month period between you announce you're quitting and you effective termination date. If you have enough paid vacation you could pad that period with your vacation, but it requires pre-acceptance, so cooperation from your employer. Otherwise you're into non-accepted vacation territory, which could lead to financial penalties (basically withdrawing your salary, with potential tax adjustements. They could also try to sue you, and given you're fleeing assume they'd get a default judgement for instance) Then there's all the paperwork you actually want to have properly done by your employer. They're legally obligated to, but it's always harder if you're in adversarial mode. All in all, you can still quit cold turkey ("bakkure"), but that's a usually a PITA. Getting a pro to negociate a clean separation will be better than just disappearing, if you're not in the mood/capacity to face your employer. PS; There are magical words that would give any employee an immediate option to never see their employer again. I don't want them in my comments, but anyone interested will find them with a simple search.
  - zahlman 2y ago
    >I don't want them in my comments Why not? Are they obscene somehow?
    - makeitdouble 2y ago
      I'd compare it to jury nullification, it's something anyone probably knows, but you wouldn't want to be posting on SNS while being a juror.
  - chasontherobot 2y ago
    Contracts might require it, but the law says 2 weeks (on a regular full time contract or a limited contract after the first year) and contracts can't supersede the law.
    - skhr0680 2y ago
      People don't want to deal with the fallout of saying that, hence quitting agents
    - makeitdouble 2y ago
      Yes. The law clearly set 2 weeks [0]. It puts the employee in the strongest position, but doesn't completely voids a contract. For instance the employer can still fight it by justifying a necessity for them to have a longer period, or convincing a court the contract had enough provisions to make it a reasonable clause. It would be a huge PITA on both sides though, I don't see many companies wanting that much trouble just for a single employee trying to leave the boat. [0] https://jsite.mhlw.go.jp/miyagi-roudoukyoku/library/miyagi-roudoukyoku/window/img/kiso_04.pdf https://jsite.mhlw.go.jp/miyagi-roudoukyoku/library/miyagi-r...
  - kochikame 2y ago
    I presume you are referring to sekuhara (sexual harassment), pawahara (power harassment) and the like
    - 2y ago
- omoikane 2y ago
  The second reddit link above includes an example, where the person has a visa change and would get in trouble with immigration if they continue to remain employed. If the person was leaving because they accepted an offer from another employer, being on two payrolls simultaneously might also be a problem.
Aurornis 2y ago
> Personally (living in Japan) I've never experienced something like this, but it does happen. I have some friends-of-friends living in Japan. It’s interesting to hear their experience with culture evolve over time. They openly admit that they get a free pass around some of the more difficult cultural situations due to not being born and raised originally in Japan. Hearing their stories has definitely given me a different perspective on some of the overly idealized views of Japan that get repeated online. A lot of social media posters with experience in Japan fall into a routine where they post about how things in Japan are so much better and more straightforward than in the United States (and other countries) because it gets attention. They conveniently leave out a lot of the less romantic and positive differences though.
- mschuster91 2y ago
  > A lot of social media posters with experience in Japan fall into a routine where they post about how things in Japan are so much better and more straightforward than in the United States (and other countries) because it gets attention. They conveniently leave out a lot of the less romantic and positive differences though. That kind of whataboutism is a common issue in politics though. Why can't we all go and look for every field of politics look what other countries do and if what they do is better, then do that as well without taking the worse parts? For example, look at Switzerland when it comes to education, to Germany's Mittelstand and trades education system for a vibrant and healthy SME business field, to the US for access to venture capital and cutting-edge research, to Austria or Denmark for their pension system, to Japan for public transport reliability...
  - inglor_cz 2y ago
    Often, because some entrenched interests stand in the way. Famously, NYC builds new subway tunnels very expensively, about three times more expensively than Paris. What stands in the way of a substantial cost reduction? Many factors, including local unions that defend their lucrative turf. The French withdrew from the project of the Californian High-Speed Rail blaming total governmental dysfunction and comparing Californian public sector negatively to Morocco, where a French-built HSR actually was built successfully.
spike021 2y ago
A friend of mine in Japan recently needed a lawyer to quit their job. Very unusual to me, being an American.
- jalapenos 2y ago
  Did they say why?
  - spike021 2y ago
    Nah, but it sounded like a very stressful situation that they even had to.
- pfdietz 2y ago
  It makes one feel a bit better about At-will employment, which is a two way street. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At-will_employment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At-will_employment
  - jowea 2y ago
    I believe the Japanese problem has a lot to do with culture, not just law.

by grose 2y ago

presentation 2y ago

Yeah nobody I know has told me they’ve experienced this, but maybe it’s common amongst some groups and not others. Black companies are something else.

intellix 2y ago

why can't you just email them and stop turning up?

Aeolun 2y ago
It’ll become messy if they keep paying you?
makeitdouble 2y ago
Typical contracts will require a 1 month period between you announce you're quitting and you effective termination date. If you have enough paid vacation you could pad that period with your vacation, but it requires pre-acceptance, so cooperation from your employer. Otherwise you're into non-accepted vacation territory, which could lead to financial penalties (basically withdrawing your salary, with potential tax adjustements. They could also try to sue you, and given you're fleeing assume they'd get a default judgement for instance) Then there's all the paperwork you actually want to have properly done by your employer. They're legally obligated to, but it's always harder if you're in adversarial mode. All in all, you can still quit cold turkey ("bakkure"), but that's a usually a PITA. Getting a pro to negociate a clean separation will be better than just disappearing, if you're not in the mood/capacity to face your employer. PS; There are magical words that would give any employee an immediate option to never see their employer again. I don't want them in my comments, but anyone interested will find them with a simple search.
- zahlman 2y ago
  >I don't want them in my comments Why not? Are they obscene somehow?
  - makeitdouble 2y ago
    I'd compare it to jury nullification, it's something anyone probably knows, but you wouldn't want to be posting on SNS while being a juror.
- chasontherobot 2y ago
  Contracts might require it, but the law says 2 weeks (on a regular full time contract or a limited contract after the first year) and contracts can't supersede the law.
  - skhr0680 2y ago
    People don't want to deal with the fallout of saying that, hence quitting agents
  - makeitdouble 2y ago
    Yes. The law clearly set 2 weeks [0]. It puts the employee in the strongest position, but doesn't completely voids a contract. For instance the employer can still fight it by justifying a necessity for them to have a longer period, or convincing a court the contract had enough provisions to make it a reasonable clause. It would be a huge PITA on both sides though, I don't see many companies wanting that much trouble just for a single employee trying to leave the boat. [0] https://jsite.mhlw.go.jp/miyagi-roudoukyoku/library/miyagi-roudoukyoku/window/img/kiso_04.pdf https://jsite.mhlw.go.jp/miyagi-roudoukyoku/library/miyagi-r...
- kochikame 2y ago
  I presume you are referring to sekuhara (sexual harassment), pawahara (power harassment) and the like
  - 2y ago
omoikane 2y ago
The second reddit link above includes an example, where the person has a visa change and would get in trouble with immigration if they continue to remain employed. If the person was leaving because they accepted an offer from another employer, being on two payrolls simultaneously might also be a problem.

Aurornis 2y ago

> Personally (living in Japan) I've never experienced something like this, but it does happen. I have some friends-of-friends living in Japan. It’s interesting to hear their experience with culture evolve over time. They openly admit that they get a free pass around some of the more difficult cultural situations due to not being born and raised originally in Japan. Hearing their stories has definitely given me a different perspective on some of the overly idealized views of Japan that get repeated online. A lot of social media posters with experience in Japan fall into a routine where they post about how things in Japan are so much better and more straightforward than in the United States (and other countries) because it gets attention. They conveniently leave out a lot of the less romantic and positive differences though.

mschuster91 2y ago
> A lot of social media posters with experience in Japan fall into a routine where they post about how things in Japan are so much better and more straightforward than in the United States (and other countries) because it gets attention. They conveniently leave out a lot of the less romantic and positive differences though. That kind of whataboutism is a common issue in politics though. Why can't we all go and look for every field of politics look what other countries do and if what they do is better, then do that as well without taking the worse parts? For example, look at Switzerland when it comes to education, to Germany's Mittelstand and trades education system for a vibrant and healthy SME business field, to the US for access to venture capital and cutting-edge research, to Austria or Denmark for their pension system, to Japan for public transport reliability...
- inglor_cz 2y ago
  Often, because some entrenched interests stand in the way. Famously, NYC builds new subway tunnels very expensively, about three times more expensively than Paris. What stands in the way of a substantial cost reduction? Many factors, including local unions that defend their lucrative turf. The French withdrew from the project of the Californian High-Speed Rail blaming total governmental dysfunction and comparing Californian public sector negatively to Morocco, where a French-built HSR actually was built successfully.

spike021 2y ago

A friend of mine in Japan recently needed a lawyer to quit their job. Very unusual to me, being an American.

jalapenos 2y ago
Did they say why?
- spike021 2y ago
  Nah, but it sounded like a very stressful situation that they even had to.
pfdietz 2y ago
It makes one feel a bit better about At-will employment, which is a two way street. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At-will_employment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At-will_employment
- jowea 2y ago
  I believe the Japanese problem has a lot to do with culture, not just law.