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Caltrain's electrification project is paying off
- twelve40 2y ago> If you haven’t experienced the future of transportation for yourself yet Suburban trains in my hometown have been electrified since 1920's. It only took about 100 years to start experiencing the future here in the Bay!
- dekhn 2y agoThe bay area already had multiple electric trains for quite some time, I think from the 1800s and at scale in the 1920s. I think the train that ran on the lower deck of the bay bridge (before it was switched to car traffic) was also electric as were many other railroads around california. But it was removed after WWII since there was such a rapid switch to personally owned cars. bart is electric, and the muni streetcars (both have been that way for a while).
- klipt 2y agoI wonder how many "environmental studies" they had to do to conclude that electric trains are better then diesel
- jrockway 2y agoFWIW, "environmental studies" don't necessary restrict themselves to "the environment" like trees and birds or whatever. The project increases frequency and capacity so they have to plan around things like how much longer per day grade crossings will be blocked and things like that.
- nativeit 2y agoCareful. Nuance like this may soon be illegal, the charges will be aggravated if it makes a bro look stupid.
- chiph 2y agoI think that part of the reason we get so many "studies" done is because of how government accounting works. IMO the scenario is they have $250k free to use. But that isn't enough to do anything significant, like electrification, bridge-building, land acquisition, etc. And they're required to spend it by the end of the year (they aren't allowed to save it for next fiscal year). So you get a series of small studies that essentially waste money but look like they're accomplishing something.
- mitthrowaway2 2y agoIt does even read like an article from the 1920s! Still, better late than never!
- e_y_ 2y agoIn fact it was looked into by Caltrain's predecessor, the Southern Pacific railroad https://cdnc.ucr.edu/?a=d&d=SDI19210907.2.17 https://cdnc.ucr.edu/?a=d&d=SDI19210907.2.17 Stockton Independent, September 1921 > Electrification of Lines to Be Looked Into by S.P. > SAN FRANCISCO, Sept. 6. — William Sproule, president of the Southern Pacific company, has received authorization from the board of directors of the railway to investigate the feasibility of electrifying the Southern Pacific lines between San Francisco and Peninsula points, It was announced here today. Better and more frequent service would result from electrification of the peninsula lines, according to parties who petitioned the Southern Pacific to take this action. (Unfortunately, it was dismissed a couple weeks later: https://cdnc.ucr.edu/?a=d&d=SDI19210917.2.13 https://cdnc.ucr.edu/?a=d&d=SDI19210917.2.13)
- jrockway 2y agoPrior to the Caltrain electrification, BART existed and it's pretty much a suburban rail system. Just served a different part of the Bay Area.
- labster 2y agoLos Angeles had an extensive electric train system operated by Pacific Electric in the 1920s, but eventually they were all removed to improve motor traffic, and because the owners sold all of the real estate that the Red Cars made more attractive. This article feels like experiencing the past to me.
- ulfw 2y agoAnd they still make noise like in the 1920s with their silly horns. I was once visiting a friend who lived near those housing developments that are all along the Caltrain tracks in the South Bay. I almost lost my hearing. It was insane. No way could I live like that or even try to sleep. Some things in America are truly shocking.
- dehrmann 2y agoThe better acceleration and faster service almost have to eventually improve ridership, and electrification should improve operation cost, but YoY ridership numbers post-covid are still weird, and I'd like to see finer-grain numbers before claiming this after just a month or two. tl;dr: nothing to see here just yet.
- hnav 2y agoevery mode of transit along commute routes in the bay (rail to downtown, freeways to southbay) seems to be at a 4 year high in terms of utilization
- readthenotes1 2y agoIt was hard to tell from the article whether it was electrification, new seats, some other affordance of the new purchase, or simply more ridership overall...
- MiguelX413 2y agoWell the main affordance is higher frequency and better travel times.
- kaycebasques 2y agoI agree that it's too soon to call but the article does say that ridership is above pre-covid levels: > The trains have also surpassed pre-COVID-19 ridership levels, with weekends becoming increasingly popular. Saturday ridership has increased 169%, and Sunday ridership has increased 142% since last October, the release said.
- e_y_ 2y agoPossibly there's some novelty factor to riding the new trains. My 70-something year old aunt, visiting from another continent, wanted to ride the new trains (and they weren't even fully converted yet, it was day 2 of the soft launch and only a couple trains had been switched over so I had to check the train sightings on Discord). Obviously they're not all that unique outside the US but it's exciting to see them here. But weekend service is now twice as frequent (now every 30 minutes) which is a game changer, so it's not a surprise that those numbers in particular have shot up since they were pretty weak to begin with.
- briandw 2y agoI love the new trains. Now if we could get them to lower the db of the horn. They blast at a minimum of 96 db. It's pointless and a big quality of life issue. https://communities.springernature.com/posts/train-horns-save-hundreds-of-lives-yet-kill-thousands-from-noise-exposure https://communities.springernature.com/posts/train-horns-sav... https://railroads.dot.gov/sites/fra.dot.gov/files/2019-11/FRA%20Train%20Horn%20and%20Quiet%20Zone%20Fact%20Sheet.pdf https://railroads.dot.gov/sites/fra.dot.gov/files/2019-11/FR...
- foolfoolz 2y agothey changed this in southern california for the surfliner and it was a huge impact. really nice to not hear the train horn. then they added speakers that play fake train sounds at grade crossings… why
- astrange 2y agoIt's a federal requirement. The real solution would be not to have grade crossings, but America is generally incapable of building anything.
- browningstreet 2y agoReno put their downtown train track underground. It’s a short segment but it’s doable. Emeryville has no horn train crossings. It’s doable.
- mike_d 2y agoOne of the few good things to come out of the next four years is that California will be able to basically ignore any federal requirements that serve no real purpose.
- cuteboy19 2y agothankfully california has more than enough supply of those. cities like san francisco have proven reserves that will last decades on their own
- Animats 2y agoThe acceleration is impressive. Every wheel is powered. When those trains pull out of a station, they reach near cruising speed in their own length. With the Diesels out of the way, at peak periods there are five trains an hour in each direction.
- batterseapower 2y agoAnnual ridership is about 7m passengers (https://www.caltrain.com/media/34265 https://www.caltrain.com/media/34265) or 9m if we annualize the numbers in this article. At the same time, the Caltrain is losing more than $33m/year (https://www.caltrain.com/blog/2023/04/financial-future-caltrain https://www.caltrain.com/blog/2023/04/financial-future-caltr...) even though it recieved a huge $410m subsidy from the state government for the capital investment required to complete the electrification. So it's losing more than $5 per ride even ignoring capital costs. In fact, the farebox recovery ratio is only 25%, which is truly horrible even by public transport standards: https://www.caltrain.com/media/33996/download https://www.caltrain.com/media/33996/download The curmudgeon in my questions where it really make sense for the Caltrain to exist at all, given that it: 1. It is extremely far from covering its own costs 2. The subsidy provided by the state is regressive because it principally benefits the wealthy commuters along the line 3. It imposes substantial negative externialities on the South Bay both in terms of noise & traffic delays at grade crossings 4. The line and stations occupy very valuable real estate that could be sold and put to better uses
- crystaln 2y agoSeems also important to consider the positive impacts? - traffic reduction - emissions reduction - quality of life / time recovery of train vs driving - socialization of society That’s off the top of my head. Not saying those justify anything however costs are not the only factor.
- MiguelX413 2y agoNobody asks if roads or airports pay for themselves.
- MiguelX413 2y agoIt wasn't a subsidy so much as it was an exchange of electrification for state trackage rights.
- saagarjha 2y agoI just think they're neat.
- apexalpha 2y agoFeels weird to read about the most innovative place in the world of our time, the land of Google, Apple, AI, all modern tech, the place pretty much the entire world looks up to talk so passionately about something my country did in the 1920s. Life's weird like that sometimes. Better late than never I guess. >If you haven’t experienced the future of transportation for yourself yet, find out what everyone has been talking about Hahaha
- fph 2y agoTrue, and for another thought: I'm here doing my part for the environment, recycling, reducing packaging, and saving emissions where I can, and people in the first world of first worlds haven't even been using electric trains this whole time?!?
- pavlov 2y agoAmerica largely invented the modern world, but then it never took the next steps because it didn’t need to. So a lot of things are stuck in a “version 1.x” endlessly patched over. Infrastructure was built in 1920 or 1950. People still regularly pay with paper checks. Federal and state governments seem to operate mostly with paper files. And so on. (If Elon Musk were serious about improving government efficiency, he would marshal his considerable software experience to bring departments like the IRS into the digital age supported by AI tools. That would amply pay for itself in reduced overhead and improved tax collection. But of course that’s not the kind of efficiency he wants — he’s looking to punitively fire bureaucrats perceived as leftists, not improve government revenue.)
- drmpeg 2y agoI was hoping to see one of the AEM-7 units they bought for testing, but no dice. Did they even do any testing with them? I did see electrics racing diesels during testing.
- e_y_ 2y agoAccording to rumor the AEM-7s were fried during testing due to a misconfiguration.
- screye 2y agoThe new caltrains are excellent. When is the last time anyone used that word for American public infrastructure. I can't rave enough. It's the most 'futuristic' public infrastructure experience I've had in the US. It's not perfect. It took its time getting built, the wifi can be choppy and frequencies should be better. But I prefer optimism. The new trains getting becoming crowded, and I'm smiling ear-to-ear. People are actually buying in ! Here's an Hindi saying : "Der aaye durust aaye" (Translated as : Let it be late, as long as it's well built.)
- hodgesrm 2y agoSan Francisco airport is pretty decent. I’ve been flying out of it for decades and it’s definitely improved over that time: access, food, wifi, other basic amenities. Even security checks are faster than most other airports I travel through.
- hansonkd 2y agoMy favorite thing is the "silent terminal" concept. Most major airports if you arrive groggy at 5am waiting for your flight, you are blasted with a bunch of nonsense announcements that have nothing to do with your flight every 2-5 minutes "Keep your baggage with you at all times" "The USO is located...", etc. and in between the announcements loud music gets played. Trying to find a location away from a speaker is no good because there are speakers in the ceilings about every 10ft in a grid. It surprised me when i visted SFO terminal 1 how much a quality of life improvement it is to just have silence in a public place.
- kylehotchkiss 2y agoI didn’t realize jugaad had such a strong opposite!
- rayiner 2y agoNew York did this in like 1910 lol.
- throwaway81348 2y agoTrains, schedules, speed is excellent. But they lost all restrooms but one, and guess how often that one stays open? Big downgrade for folks with issues.
- kccqzy 2y agoI love electrification. Honestly after having gotten an electric car with smooth acceleration and no vibration, riding the diesel Caltrain feels like a massive step backwards in user experience, even though it's probably still better for the environment to take a diesel train than to drive. I had absolutely no discomfort issues on Caltrain before I got used to electric cars, so my body has become more sensitive.
- kylehotchkiss 2y agoIMO The secret ingredient that makes these regional trains work is actually conductors who check fares and remove people who aren’t paying (or otherwise harass other riders) off the train. The electric part is also cool.