9 ms·

I love it(in context of FreeBSD): ————— What does not work: Keyboard, mouse, TB & USB-C ports, thermal/freq mgt. Conclusion: Highly recommended

by galkk 2y ago

Muromec 2y ago
I mean it's a fun computer to write drivers for. You will be that dude if you make it all work and share with community
- jandrese 2y ago
  The post was from Poul-Henning Kamp, who writes a lot of drivers for FreeBSD. Him having this laptop is good news for future compatibility.
cnst 2y ago
That was a bit ironic, indeed, but at least the USB-A works! For what it's worth, the majority of mechanical RGB keyboards and mice are USB-A anyways, so, if you're fine with a very powerful machine that wouldn't have an internal keyboard support for a few weeks, sounds like a good advice anyways!
- glitchc 2y ago
  An ARM64 is "a very powerful computer"? The whole promise with ARM is better thermals and long battery life, not screaming performance. With the thermals/cpu not working, we don't even get that.
  - viraptor 2y ago
    M4 crushing benchmarks and AWS running Graviton 2 would disagree on the idea of "whole premise".
    - ksec 2y ago
      I always knew hardware discussions on HN were below the normal standards. But sometimes I am still surprised at how low it can go.
      - simfree 2y ago
        The finer grained performance per watt vs silicon cost set in the context of use case is just lost in HN hardware conversations like this that ignore total cost of ownership, vendor politics and such. Everyone is buying the tool that does the job, or building that tool if they want to make that large investment...
        llm_trw 2y ago
        There's a difference in cost per flop at home and in a data center. I'm updating my wiring and air conditioning for a 7x5090 workstation because having that power for experiments under the desk is worth the cost (and fire hazard). If I had to build 10,000 of those I'd be banned by NVidia from ever buying their hardware again.
        maayank 2y ago
        What are you doing with the workstation that it’s worth the cost?
        llm_trw 2y ago
        High dimensional computations for time series data in finance.
        maayank 2y ago
        Private algotrading? Nice. May the odds be always at your favor!
        DeathArrow 2y ago
- smolder 2y ago
  I'm unsure what RGB or a keyboard being mechanical has to do with it being USB-A, or what the relevance is, but yes, there are many USB-A peripherals available.
  - cnst 2y ago
    The point is that most of the keyboards for sale on Amazon are still USB-A, even the more fancy ones, even though Apple useds tend to portray USB-A as last-century and deprecated. USB mice is still faster and more fluid cursor movement than Bluetooth, too. Also of note, even the most premium keyboards and mice are Full Speed USB 1.1, running at up to 12Mbps. You can verify this yourself through the Apple menu, About This Mac, System Report, USB, and look for your external USB keyboard or mouse. Compare to the USB-C USB4 ports being capable of up to 40000Mbps. And, to be full-featured, they need to support up to 100W, or more, of power input, as well as output in excess of what would be required for a USB-A USB3 5000Mbps or even 10000Mbps port. Which is to say, for the cost of a single USB-C, a manufacturer can easily provide 4 or more USB-A ports, with a change to spare. That would avoid unnecessary adapters and improve compatibility. Not to mention that most of the memory sticks are still USB-A, too, and there's no Fit USB sticks for USB-C at all, only for USB-A. Which means that it's far easier to semi-permanently extend storage of a USB-A laptop than of a USB-C one, which you may want to do to try out a system without messing up with your main Windows installation. It's basically a nab against Apple's decision to remove a useful port, especially on the M4 Mac mini, where they now have USB-C ports that are not fully-featured anymore — the ports at the front have a different spec than the ones at the back, which we all remember now at the time of the announcement, but imagine dealing with it several years down the line, where you'll have to be looking up specs and troubleshooting your things not working the way you expect. They could have easily avoided it by NOT including the 2 slow USB-C ports, and including like 4 USB-A ones instead.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
  - cnst 2y ago
    > The only thing my post was addressing is that you called out RGB mechanical keyboards specifically when there are also plenty of non-RGB and non-mechanical options. It was bizarre, like this reply. The point was that even the more "premium" products are still USB-A, not USB-C. USB-A simply isn't going anywhere. Personally, I find USB-A more useful than HDMI, since HDMI is kind of inferior to USB-C in every possible way. I've tried using a 43" UHD TV as a monitor, since they're as cheap as $149.99 USD brand new, but it had noticeable delay even at 4k@60Hz, and just didn't feel right. The UHD resolution at 43" itself would actually be perfect, since 1080p at 20.5in used to be my fav a few years ago (before QHD at 23" started reaching the sub-$200 range), but, alas, the specs of a proper monitor (brightness, matte, USB-C with PD and a hub) are just better suited for a display compared to a TV, even if the resolution itself may seem ideal.
zdw 2y ago
Somewhat surprised that networking is not mentioned in either list. Maybe a USB to ethernet dongle was used?
- MBCook 2y ago
  That makes sense. If you have working USB-A, then any USB ethernet adapter supported by FreeBSD should work right? That’s actually a pretty big escape hatch for early development. It explains how you’d be able to get past having a nonfunctional keyboard pretty easily, for example.
doubled112 2y ago
Sounds like some of the Linux phones. This is our flagship device. It doesn't have a working camera or radios, but who needs those?
- yonatan8070 2y ago
  Every time I hear about mobile Linux releases I get excited just for the chance to get away from Android and iOS, then I get disappointed to find that the list of things that don't work includes like half the phone
  - grishka 2y ago
    I have a feeling that the Linux developer community in general just constantly prioritizes the wrong things. They love to boast about technical achievements instead of doing something that would actually enable real-world regular-usage scenarios. Not helped by the fact that stable ABIs are basically nonexistent, especially for kernel modules. Is it even possible to use Linux on desktop without ever having to edit config files or run commands in the terminal?
    - yonatan8070 2y ago
      > They love to boast about technical achievements instead of doing something that would actually enable real-world regular-usage scenarios. For mobile Linux in particular, I found that it's quite the opposite, I see projects like Phosh and KDE Plasma Mobile constantly showing UI and UX improvemnts (albeit at a slower pace than desktop projects), while basic hardware support is non-functional. Of course I'm not expecting every UX/UI dev to abandon their project to jump into low-level kernel development and bring support for more devices, but it feels like the desktop environments are developing for a device that doesn't exist. > Is it even possible to use Linux on desktop without ever having to edit config files or run commands in the terminal? On a modern Linux distro (that isn't one of the "advanced" ones), the answer is yes. If you install something like Mint or Ubuntu, you have a graphical app store and driver manager (which AFAIK you only need for NVIDIA GPUs).
yapyap 2y ago
What is a TB?
- useless_foghorn 2y ago
  Thunderbolt port
  - hulitu 2y ago
    Are there any uses for this today ?
- koziserek 2y ago
  Tuberculosis
mst 2y ago
If you prefer your usual (external) keyboard and mouse, which plenty of people (myself included) do, the rest of the list is kinda 'meh' as restrictions go. Honestly when my current Helix 2 finally starts to die on me I'll be looking for a tablet or hybrid replacement since I neither want nor need an attached keyboard+mouse anyway, in my normal usage they're mostly just something that takes up desk space. Obviously there are also plenty of people with preferences entirely incompatible with this approach, but so it goes.

I love it(in context of FreeBSD): ————— What does not work: Keyboard, mouse, TB & USB-C ports, thermal/freq mgt. Conclusion: Highly recommended

by galkk 2y ago

I love it(in context of FreeBSD): ————— What does not work: Keyboard, mouse, TB & USB-C ports, thermal/freq mgt. Conclusion: Highly recommended

Muromec 2y ago

I mean it's a fun computer to write drivers for. You will be that dude if you make it all work and share with community

jandrese 2y ago
The post was from Poul-Henning Kamp, who writes a lot of drivers for FreeBSD. Him having this laptop is good news for future compatibility.

cnst 2y ago

That was a bit ironic, indeed, but at least the USB-A works! For what it's worth, the majority of mechanical RGB keyboards and mice are USB-A anyways, so, if you're fine with a very powerful machine that wouldn't have an internal keyboard support for a few weeks, sounds like a good advice anyways!

glitchc 2y ago
An ARM64 is "a very powerful computer"? The whole promise with ARM is better thermals and long battery life, not screaming performance. With the thermals/cpu not working, we don't even get that.
- viraptor 2y ago
  M4 crushing benchmarks and AWS running Graviton 2 would disagree on the idea of "whole premise".
  - ksec 2y ago
    I always knew hardware discussions on HN were below the normal standards. But sometimes I am still surprised at how low it can go.
    - simfree 2y ago
      The finer grained performance per watt vs silicon cost set in the context of use case is just lost in HN hardware conversations like this that ignore total cost of ownership, vendor politics and such. Everyone is buying the tool that does the job, or building that tool if they want to make that large investment...
      - llm_trw 2y ago
        There's a difference in cost per flop at home and in a data center. I'm updating my wiring and air conditioning for a 7x5090 workstation because having that power for experiments under the desk is worth the cost (and fire hazard). If I had to build 10,000 of those I'd be banned by NVidia from ever buying their hardware again.
        maayank 2y ago
        What are you doing with the workstation that it’s worth the cost?
        llm_trw 2y ago
        High dimensional computations for time series data in finance.
        maayank 2y ago
        Private algotrading? Nice. May the odds be always at your favor!
        DeathArrow 2y ago
smolder 2y ago
I'm unsure what RGB or a keyboard being mechanical has to do with it being USB-A, or what the relevance is, but yes, there are many USB-A peripherals available.
- cnst 2y ago
  The point is that most of the keyboards for sale on Amazon are still USB-A, even the more fancy ones, even though Apple useds tend to portray USB-A as last-century and deprecated. USB mice is still faster and more fluid cursor movement than Bluetooth, too. Also of note, even the most premium keyboards and mice are Full Speed USB 1.1, running at up to 12Mbps. You can verify this yourself through the Apple menu, About This Mac, System Report, USB, and look for your external USB keyboard or mouse. Compare to the USB-C USB4 ports being capable of up to 40000Mbps. And, to be full-featured, they need to support up to 100W, or more, of power input, as well as output in excess of what would be required for a USB-A USB3 5000Mbps or even 10000Mbps port. Which is to say, for the cost of a single USB-C, a manufacturer can easily provide 4 or more USB-A ports, with a change to spare. That would avoid unnecessary adapters and improve compatibility. Not to mention that most of the memory sticks are still USB-A, too, and there's no Fit USB sticks for USB-C at all, only for USB-A. Which means that it's far easier to semi-permanently extend storage of a USB-A laptop than of a USB-C one, which you may want to do to try out a system without messing up with your main Windows installation. It's basically a nab against Apple's decision to remove a useful port, especially on the M4 Mac mini, where they now have USB-C ports that are not fully-featured anymore — the ports at the front have a different spec than the ones at the back, which we all remember now at the time of the announcement, but imagine dealing with it several years down the line, where you'll have to be looking up specs and troubleshooting your things not working the way you expect. They could have easily avoided it by NOT including the 2 slow USB-C ports, and including like 4 USB-A ones instead.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
- cnst 2y ago
  > The only thing my post was addressing is that you called out RGB mechanical keyboards specifically when there are also plenty of non-RGB and non-mechanical options. It was bizarre, like this reply. The point was that even the more "premium" products are still USB-A, not USB-C. USB-A simply isn't going anywhere. Personally, I find USB-A more useful than HDMI, since HDMI is kind of inferior to USB-C in every possible way. I've tried using a 43" UHD TV as a monitor, since they're as cheap as $149.99 USD brand new, but it had noticeable delay even at 4k@60Hz, and just didn't feel right. The UHD resolution at 43" itself would actually be perfect, since 1080p at 20.5in used to be my fav a few years ago (before QHD at 23" started reaching the sub-$200 range), but, alas, the specs of a proper monitor (brightness, matte, USB-C with PD and a hub) are just better suited for a display compared to a TV, even if the resolution itself may seem ideal.

zdw 2y ago

Somewhat surprised that networking is not mentioned in either list. Maybe a USB to ethernet dongle was used?

MBCook 2y ago
That makes sense. If you have working USB-A, then any USB ethernet adapter supported by FreeBSD should work right? That’s actually a pretty big escape hatch for early development. It explains how you’d be able to get past having a nonfunctional keyboard pretty easily, for example.

doubled112 2y ago

Sounds like some of the Linux phones. This is our flagship device. It doesn't have a working camera or radios, but who needs those?

yonatan8070 2y ago
Every time I hear about mobile Linux releases I get excited just for the chance to get away from Android and iOS, then I get disappointed to find that the list of things that don't work includes like half the phone
- grishka 2y ago
  I have a feeling that the Linux developer community in general just constantly prioritizes the wrong things. They love to boast about technical achievements instead of doing something that would actually enable real-world regular-usage scenarios. Not helped by the fact that stable ABIs are basically nonexistent, especially for kernel modules. Is it even possible to use Linux on desktop without ever having to edit config files or run commands in the terminal?
  - yonatan8070 2y ago
    > They love to boast about technical achievements instead of doing something that would actually enable real-world regular-usage scenarios. For mobile Linux in particular, I found that it's quite the opposite, I see projects like Phosh and KDE Plasma Mobile constantly showing UI and UX improvemnts (albeit at a slower pace than desktop projects), while basic hardware support is non-functional. Of course I'm not expecting every UX/UI dev to abandon their project to jump into low-level kernel development and bring support for more devices, but it feels like the desktop environments are developing for a device that doesn't exist. > Is it even possible to use Linux on desktop without ever having to edit config files or run commands in the terminal? On a modern Linux distro (that isn't one of the "advanced" ones), the answer is yes. If you install something like Mint or Ubuntu, you have a graphical app store and driver manager (which AFAIK you only need for NVIDIA GPUs).

yapyap 2y ago

What is a TB?

useless_foghorn 2y ago
Thunderbolt port
- hulitu 2y ago
  Are there any uses for this today ?
koziserek 2y ago
Tuberculosis

mst 2y ago

If you prefer your usual (external) keyboard and mouse, which plenty of people (myself included) do, the rest of the list is kinda 'meh' as restrictions go. Honestly when my current Helix 2 finally starts to die on me I'll be looking for a tablet or hybrid replacement since I neither want nor need an attached keyboard+mouse anyway, in my normal usage they're mostly just something that takes up desk space. Obviously there are also plenty of people with preferences entirely incompatible with this approach, but so it goes.