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Remember that in other fields like medicine, finance, academia, and law, getting in involves 5+ years of hoop jumping and commitment signaling that have nothing
by liontwist 2y ago
Remember that in other fields like medicine, finance, academia, and law, getting in involves 5+ years of hoop jumping and commitment signaling that have nothing to do with the final job.
We are blessed.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- cratermoon 2y agoTrue, but someone with 10+ years in those fields doesn't face an interview asking them to prescribe treatment for a cold or explain the difference between civil and criminal law.
- llimllib 2y ago10 years in is exactly when you have to go do oral boards again in medicine, actually
- cratermoon 2y agoYes, and the medical licensing board is in charge of that, not the employer, and every doctor is evaluated to the same standards. Also, doctors are only one of the professions mentioned. Somehow in programming every interview starts from the assumption that the candidate must prove competence to the employer, and the employer decides what "competent" means.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- MattGaiser 2y agoPhysicians generally have to recertify every 10 years, so yes they kind of do.
- cratermoon 2y agoYes but not for a specific job, given by the employer, and certainly not for every job. And this is only one of the professional fields mentioned.
- ggregoire 2y agoGenuinely curious, knowing nothing about this field: does, for example a neurosurgeon with 15 year of experience, when looking for a new place to work, have to pass surgery "challenges", like doing a lumbar puncture in 15 min on a fake body to prove his experience?
- paxys 2y agoNo, but the medical profession has a ridiculous amount of gatekeeping, so you can't become a neurosurgeon with 15 years of experience in the first place (there are maybe a few thousand worldwide). On the other hand anyone with a computer and a curious mind is a software engineer.
- epicureanideal 2y agoDoes the gatekeeping reliably ensure quality, or just filter down the quantity of doctors?
- portaouflop 2y agoLet me answer your unknowable question with another one: Which doctor would you prefer do surgery on your brain - the one that jumped through all the hoops and went to 15yrs of med school - or the one that learned brain surgery through a YouTube tutorial? I think you know the answer. The problem is not gatekeeping in general it’s the detail and nuance of how gates are being kept and how to find the right amount of gatekeeping.
- epicureanideal 2y agoWe could theoretically have the best of both worlds, right? No unnecessary gatekeeping, but maximum necessary quality standards (which I distinguish from gatekeeping).
- marcosdumay 2y agoYeah, what is hard is actually implementing this.
- GardenLetter27 2y agoAnd you can't easily move country either.
- keybored 2y agoRemember to watch out for people who remind you that not being insane is a blessing. Where the sole pseudoargument is that things could be worse.
- liontwist 2y agoIt’s not insane for companies to filter candidates. More people want to be highly paid software engineers than positions available. The insane thing would be to expect someone to take you at your word for 150k*, when hiring managers know that 50-70% of people with your resume fail to write a nested for loop.
- keybored 2y agoI make less than that. So don’t worry about me.
- badgersnake 2y agoJust because other people are worse, it doesn't mean we shouldn't try to do better.
- derektank 2y agoIn the case of medicine and law, that's because the government restricts who is legally allowed to work in those professions
- TrackerFF 2y agoDunno, all my "normal" engineering job interviews just revolved around my previous work, going through big picture design problems, and specific things related to the job. Didn't have to solve PDE's on the whiteboard, or regurgitate integral transformations.
- liontwist 2y agoNormal engineering isn’t a vehicle to the upper middle class. Supply of engineering degree holders (challenging) is much closer to demand.
- ericmcer 2y agoI have a couple family members who are doctors. Medical school and residency were nightmares, but after that they are golden. One of them works one week a month and makes 400k. Others have pretty cushy 9-5s and are taking home ludicrous salaries. They are also pretty recession proof and their salaries are fairly immune to economic pressures. I don't think mass doctor layoffs happened in 2008 or 2022. With software you never have to stop proving yourself, and your skillset is always a few years away from being outdated. A doctor with 20 years of experience would be welcomed anywhere, but an engineer with 20 years experience is viewed with trepidation. The next "big thing" could roll out at anytime and suddenly crypto engineers are getting 800k job offers so everyone furiously tries to learn crypto stuff. A few years later that all dries up and now you have 100k engineers who are out of work and learned tech that no one cares about anymore. All the LLM engineers might be in the same position next year.
- liontwist 2y ago> but after that they are golden. Of course. They paid an enormous cost and beat other competitors for that privilege which is carefully guarded by regulation and certification boards. No doubt software has more instability, but the trade off is that you don’t have to do that multi year grind. Easier fire, easier hire. Similar pay. > skillset is always a few years away from being outdated. I strongly disagree with this. In your example you use “crypto” and “llm”. If this is your skill set you are fad chasing and needlessly increasing your exposure to changing markets. Engineers solve problems by applying math and science expertise. This is a timeless skill.