4 ms·

When the U.S. Forest Service's budget shrinks, who pumps campground toilets?

31 points by greenie_beans 2y ago

s5300 2y ago
[dead]
bastloing 2y ago
Who comes up with this shit?
dghlsakjg 2y ago
Start charging commercial USDA users market fees set by auction instead of below market fees. A lot of surplus is going straight to commercial users of American land. The current fee for grazing, for example, is $1.35 monthly per head, up from $1.23... in 1966. Time for these rural users to start paying their fair share! /s I'm mostly kidding, but articles like this pretending that the major costs of running the USFS and other public lands are on rec. users instead of commercial drive me nuts. These public lands are used for commercial extractive purposes at a loss all. the. time. Why is federal spending on public lands so far down, while more americans than ever (proportional and absolute) are using these resources for recreation?
- bediger4000 2y ago
  I don't agree with your "/s". You make a lot valid points. Why soften it by saying it's sarcasm?
  - dghlsakjg 2y ago
    The sarcasm is for the crabs in a bucket mentality, and the idea that everything has to be about profits. It’s ok for government services to lose money. Just fund it properly at the legislative level, and then decide if subsidized services are appropriate. The US government has enough money that running a bunch of pit toilets in the woods shouldn’t be a challenge.
shiroiushi 2y ago
It's simple: no one. Americans can enjoy 4 (or more) years of nasty, unusable toilets, and will probably just take a dump behind a tree if they're in a national park, so popular parks will be full of human waste lying around. Maybe they can just close the parks altogether.
- warkdarrior 2y ago
  No, don't close the park. Just open them for business. You want a clean, well-light, comfortable toilet in a national park? NP Toilet Inc will provide one for a small fee.
  - shiroiushi 2y ago
    People will get mad about having to pay a "small" fee to use a toilet at a national park, so some will take a crap behind a tree. So the USFS and NPS could then hire private security companies to patrol the parks looking for people peeing and pooping behind trees, and arrest them, forcing them to pay huge fees to be released. Maybe this could be a model for law enforcement all over America, actually: privatize all the police. People could just pay fines for whatever crime they've committed: $1000 for insulting the president, $10,000 for shoplifting, $10M for murder, etc.
    - greenie_beans 2y ago
      > some will take a crap behind a tree this is exactly what you're supposed to do. even park rangers will tell you that.
      - shiroiushi 2y ago
        Huh? No, you're not at all. They'll tell you to dig a hole and crap into that, and bury it. Peeing behind a tree is fine, but that's a different matter.
        greenie_beans 2y ago
m3kw9 2y ago
Start digging your own holes and kindly fill it back before you leave
- lukan 2y ago
  If this simple procedure would be taught in schools, most trees around parking in forest areas wouldn't look like shit.
  - h0l0cube 2y ago
    They still would because the holes typically are very shallow, and half filled with toilet paper. The next significant rainfall that comes around, there's soiled paper all strewn about the mud.
    - lukan 2y ago
      Done the right way, they are deep enough. A stick or stone lying around is usually enough to do that much digging.
      - h0l0cube 2y ago
        If people would just do it ‘the right way’ I wouldn’t see this happening. Another ‘right way’ is to use a portable bidet, or a spray bottle. Not for everyone
        lukan 2y ago
        Or having a small shovel in the car. But like I said, I think it should be taught in schools. As I also wittness the lack of this knowledge.
        h0l0cube 2y ago
        > Or having a small shovel in the car. A sharp enough fold-up shovel becomes necessary kit when dealing with compacted dry soil. > I think it should be taught in schools. If a solution involves 'If everyone would just X', it's very unlikely that actually 'everyone would just X', at least not without significant incentive. Education definitely has a role to play in making 'more people just X' by changing peoples' value judgements.
renewiltord 2y ago
Ah it’s the classic rule. If you’re the government you have to hire a guy who has A, B, and C but if you hire a non-profit that non-profit can hire a guy who has none of that and so can do it cheaper. Cool!
ars 2y ago
There's something seriously wrong with government when this sentence is true: "The BTNF essentially hired Kosiba’s group, which could then contract out with other private companies. They agreed to do the job at about a third of that $120,000." That's really not normal. What's going on in government spending?
- brg 2y ago
  Corruption. It’s interesting how it happens across all human activity. There are mechanisms to reduce it, such as strict penalties (Singapore) or moving to a competitive for-profit model (USFS does rent out many park areas).
  - greenie_beans 2y ago
    do you know how gov contracting works?
lucidguppy 2y ago
Duh - sell the parks to a golf resort developer!
486sx33 2y ago
Entry / user fees?
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

31 points by greenie_beans 2y ago

s5300 2y ago

[dead]

bastloing 2y ago

Who comes up with this shit?

dghlsakjg 2y ago

Start charging commercial USDA users market fees set by auction instead of below market fees. A lot of surplus is going straight to commercial users of American land. The current fee for grazing, for example, is $1.35 monthly per head, up from $1.23... in 1966. Time for these rural users to start paying their fair share! /s I'm mostly kidding, but articles like this pretending that the major costs of running the USFS and other public lands are on rec. users instead of commercial drive me nuts. These public lands are used for commercial extractive purposes at a loss all. the. time. Why is federal spending on public lands so far down, while more americans than ever (proportional and absolute) are using these resources for recreation?

bediger4000 2y ago
I don't agree with your "/s". You make a lot valid points. Why soften it by saying it's sarcasm?
- dghlsakjg 2y ago
  The sarcasm is for the crabs in a bucket mentality, and the idea that everything has to be about profits. It’s ok for government services to lose money. Just fund it properly at the legislative level, and then decide if subsidized services are appropriate. The US government has enough money that running a bunch of pit toilets in the woods shouldn’t be a challenge.

shiroiushi 2y ago

It's simple: no one. Americans can enjoy 4 (or more) years of nasty, unusable toilets, and will probably just take a dump behind a tree if they're in a national park, so popular parks will be full of human waste lying around. Maybe they can just close the parks altogether.

warkdarrior 2y ago
No, don't close the park. Just open them for business. You want a clean, well-light, comfortable toilet in a national park? NP Toilet Inc will provide one for a small fee.
- shiroiushi 2y ago
  People will get mad about having to pay a "small" fee to use a toilet at a national park, so some will take a crap behind a tree. So the USFS and NPS could then hire private security companies to patrol the parks looking for people peeing and pooping behind trees, and arrest them, forcing them to pay huge fees to be released. Maybe this could be a model for law enforcement all over America, actually: privatize all the police. People could just pay fines for whatever crime they've committed: $1000 for insulting the president, $10,000 for shoplifting, $10M for murder, etc.
  - greenie_beans 2y ago
    > some will take a crap behind a tree this is exactly what you're supposed to do. even park rangers will tell you that.
    - shiroiushi 2y ago
      Huh? No, you're not at all. They'll tell you to dig a hole and crap into that, and bury it. Peeing behind a tree is fine, but that's a different matter.
      - greenie_beans 2y ago

m3kw9 2y ago

Start digging your own holes and kindly fill it back before you leave

lukan 2y ago
If this simple procedure would be taught in schools, most trees around parking in forest areas wouldn't look like shit.
- h0l0cube 2y ago
  They still would because the holes typically are very shallow, and half filled with toilet paper. The next significant rainfall that comes around, there's soiled paper all strewn about the mud.
  - lukan 2y ago
    Done the right way, they are deep enough. A stick or stone lying around is usually enough to do that much digging.
    - h0l0cube 2y ago
      If people would just do it ‘the right way’ I wouldn’t see this happening. Another ‘right way’ is to use a portable bidet, or a spray bottle. Not for everyone
      - lukan 2y ago
        Or having a small shovel in the car. But like I said, I think it should be taught in schools. As I also wittness the lack of this knowledge.
        h0l0cube 2y ago
        > Or having a small shovel in the car. A sharp enough fold-up shovel becomes necessary kit when dealing with compacted dry soil. > I think it should be taught in schools. If a solution involves 'If everyone would just X', it's very unlikely that actually 'everyone would just X', at least not without significant incentive. Education definitely has a role to play in making 'more people just X' by changing peoples' value judgements.

renewiltord 2y ago

Ah it’s the classic rule. If you’re the government you have to hire a guy who has A, B, and C but if you hire a non-profit that non-profit can hire a guy who has none of that and so can do it cheaper. Cool!

ars 2y ago

There's something seriously wrong with government when this sentence is true: "The BTNF essentially hired Kosiba’s group, which could then contract out with other private companies. They agreed to do the job at about a third of that $120,000." That's really not normal. What's going on in government spending?

brg 2y ago
Corruption. It’s interesting how it happens across all human activity. There are mechanisms to reduce it, such as strict penalties (Singapore) or moving to a competitive for-profit model (USFS does rent out many park areas).
- greenie_beans 2y ago
  do you know how gov contracting works?

lucidguppy 2y ago

Duh - sell the parks to a golf resort developer!

486sx33 2y ago

Entry / user fees?

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]