4 ms·

If you don't show up at a particular time in the morning then you're a horrible person and not a Team Player. Every day, year after year. Good teams make it af

If you don't show up at a particular time in the morning then you're a horrible person and not a Team Player. Every day, year after year. Good teams make it after everyone would have reasonably absorbed their coffee. But some teams get pushed earlier. Particularly if there are people in EST, CST, and definitely if you've got people in India, where 9 am PST is when you should be reading your kids bedtime stories.

blueflow 2y ago
This is not normal, your company culture is unhealthy. You should not have to put yourself up with this.
- l33t7332273 2y ago
  Having a morning meeting is pretty normal
  - rikthevik 2y ago
    And pretty reasonable if people are plus or minus a few timezones. Working cross-continent is absolutely brutal.
  - loco5niner 2y ago
    They are not talking about a morning meeting. Read it again.
PittleyDunkin 2y ago
That seems less to do with scrum and more to do with salaried work culture where you're expected to attend meetings.
nradov 2y ago
Scrum doesn't dictate any particular time for team meetings. But if you choose to work on a geographically distributed then someone will be inconvenienced regardless of the chosen methodology. You're not special.
extr 2y ago
I mean, this is just life no? You have to be places, and be responsible for things, even when you would prefer not to be?
dustingetz 2y ago
manager here, how old are you? parents of school age children (like half the workforce) are drinking coffee by 6:30 local. overseas workers are getting paid foreign salaries, they understand the deal they made. its the under-26yo crowd who is up till 1am watching netflix and can’t get to bed on time. what categories am i missing that can’t attend a meeting at 9?
- scrollaway 2y ago
  CEO here - check yourself. The role /you/ were hired for requires essential social skills such as understanding that some people are night owls and some are morning people. The category you're missing is the one that will naturally wake up later than you. Also, women require more sleep than men on average.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - throwaway2037 2y ago
    Google tells me: > Women need on average 11 additional minutes of sleep each night. Hmm, not much.
- blueflow 2y ago
  YTA. I'm 30 and i have to waste my time in the evening because i do not get tired before midnight except when I'm physically exhausted. Which typically never happens in a office job. I can go to bed earlier but then i will just lay wake until my sleep time. SO has it reverse, she wakes up at 7-8 am even at the weekend and is unable to get back to sleep.
- WesleyJohnson 2y ago
  46 here with school-age children. I'm gonna disagree. I realize we're an outlier because we homeschool, but our kids wake up on their own, happy and eager for the day. Too often, I see and read about kids being dragged out of bed and sitting at bus stops while it's still dark outside. All so the working class can be at their desks by 8am? Never agreed with that. I'm still a night owl. 12am is the baseline. 1am is not uncommon. 2 or 3am is occasional. I can attend a 9am. I prefer 10 or later. Most of my team does as well, and they all rise earlier than I do.
agumonkey 2y ago
Makes me wonder how 'async first' companies operate (I think gitlab is like that)
- sgarland 2y ago
  Zapier is/was (I’ve not been there for a bit over a year) more or less async first. We still had meetings, but they weren’t supposed to be the default. Basically for status updates, you’d just put it in Slack. We had a bot that prompted us. We did have a weekly meeting, but it was at a reasonable time for everyone. A team I was on while there had some APAC people, and we even managed to have meetings with them, by scheduling them in afternoon hours for the U.S. Worked out pretty well.
- jonasdegendt 2y ago
  I'm in an async company and team, we practice scrum too. Half the team in the US, half in Europe. First of all, the standup isn't daily, it's twice a week. People still miss it for reasons (kids, doctors appointments, ...), and it's just... accepted. There's a general culture of trust. Other than that, Slack threads go on twice as verbose and long as in other places I've worked. There's a general deluge of pull requests going around certain times of the day and they're always reviewed within an acceptable time frame. In between delivering PR's you simply pick up other work, we're all seniors that know how to work independently, I'm not sure if you could achieve the same thing with a bunch of juniors mixed in unless they have the right attitude as well.

blueflow 2y ago

This is not normal, your company culture is unhealthy. You should not have to put yourself up with this.

l33t7332273 2y ago
Having a morning meeting is pretty normal
- rikthevik 2y ago
  And pretty reasonable if people are plus or minus a few timezones. Working cross-continent is absolutely brutal.
- loco5niner 2y ago
  They are not talking about a morning meeting. Read it again.

PittleyDunkin 2y ago

That seems less to do with scrum and more to do with salaried work culture where you're expected to attend meetings.

nradov 2y ago

Scrum doesn't dictate any particular time for team meetings. But if you choose to work on a geographically distributed then someone will be inconvenienced regardless of the chosen methodology. You're not special.

extr 2y ago

I mean, this is just life no? You have to be places, and be responsible for things, even when you would prefer not to be?

dustingetz 2y ago

manager here, how old are you? parents of school age children (like half the workforce) are drinking coffee by 6:30 local. overseas workers are getting paid foreign salaries, they understand the deal they made. its the under-26yo crowd who is up till 1am watching netflix and can’t get to bed on time. what categories am i missing that can’t attend a meeting at 9?

scrollaway 2y ago
CEO here - check yourself. The role /you/ were hired for requires essential social skills such as understanding that some people are night owls and some are morning people. The category you're missing is the one that will naturally wake up later than you. Also, women require more sleep than men on average.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- throwaway2037 2y ago
  Google tells me: > Women need on average 11 additional minutes of sleep each night. Hmm, not much.
blueflow 2y ago
YTA. I'm 30 and i have to waste my time in the evening because i do not get tired before midnight except when I'm physically exhausted. Which typically never happens in a office job. I can go to bed earlier but then i will just lay wake until my sleep time. SO has it reverse, she wakes up at 7-8 am even at the weekend and is unable to get back to sleep.
WesleyJohnson 2y ago
46 here with school-age children. I'm gonna disagree. I realize we're an outlier because we homeschool, but our kids wake up on their own, happy and eager for the day. Too often, I see and read about kids being dragged out of bed and sitting at bus stops while it's still dark outside. All so the working class can be at their desks by 8am? Never agreed with that. I'm still a night owl. 12am is the baseline. 1am is not uncommon. 2 or 3am is occasional. I can attend a 9am. I prefer 10 or later. Most of my team does as well, and they all rise earlier than I do.

agumonkey 2y ago

Makes me wonder how 'async first' companies operate (I think gitlab is like that)

sgarland 2y ago
Zapier is/was (I’ve not been there for a bit over a year) more or less async first. We still had meetings, but they weren’t supposed to be the default. Basically for status updates, you’d just put it in Slack. We had a bot that prompted us. We did have a weekly meeting, but it was at a reasonable time for everyone. A team I was on while there had some APAC people, and we even managed to have meetings with them, by scheduling them in afternoon hours for the U.S. Worked out pretty well.
jonasdegendt 2y ago
I'm in an async company and team, we practice scrum too. Half the team in the US, half in Europe. First of all, the standup isn't daily, it's twice a week. People still miss it for reasons (kids, doctors appointments, ...), and it's just... accepted. There's a general culture of trust. Other than that, Slack threads go on twice as verbose and long as in other places I've worked. There's a general deluge of pull requests going around certain times of the day and they're always reviewed within an acceptable time frame. In between delivering PR's you simply pick up other work, we're all seniors that know how to work independently, I'm not sure if you could achieve the same thing with a bunch of juniors mixed in unless they have the right attitude as well.