5 ms·

The funniest thing would be to keep running the site as-is but swap out the insanity for stuff that reads like insanity but is legit or morally sound. The audi

The funniest thing would be to keep running the site as-is but swap out the insanity for stuff that reads like insanity but is legit or morally sound. The audience might not notice, and could (IMHO) easily be duped into supporting good causes!

consumer451 2y ago
This is exactly what I was thinking. Being funny is great, but for years people will continue to go to the website not knowing what has transpired.
- tialaramex 2y ago
  The core idea of satire, which is often missed in supposedly satirical works is that you should not only make fun of the thing you don't believe, but you should also explain what you do believe under the cover of pretending to dismiss it. For example everybody knows Swift's Modest Proposal does not seriously intend that the problems in Ireland ought to be fixed by literally eating children, but if you read it, the proposal also very clearly explains what should be done, in the form of taxation of the wealthy absentee landlords (many of them English) for example - it just couches all these boring but entirely reasonable steps as ludicrous and easily dismissed while insisting that eating babies is a good idea.
  - josefresco 2y ago
    > The core idea of satire, which is often missed in supposedly satirical works is that you should not only make fun of the thing you don't believe, but you should also explain what you do believe under the cover of pretending to dismiss it. I often suggest that satire is a dangerous double edged sword and not a good primary vehicle for positive change. Part of your audience will understand it's satire, but a significant part maybe even a majority, might take is as genuine or worse come to embrace/support the satirized. I believe we ask and expect too much of satire which relies heavily on hypocrisy and shame, two concepts that no longer carry the same weight. Examples: South Park, The Colbert Report, SNL, The Onion
    - beepbooptheory 2y ago
      I definitely see the problems you are pointing out, but ultimately these calls from you and gp to forms of responsibility or to be a "vehicle for positive change" of satirical or otherwise funny things leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I just sometimes want things to be cathartic, I don't really care if they are pushing the needle of the world's ills. I want to be able to laugh and not necessarily be a better person for it! There has got to be some space for that too, right? And ok, if there is some committee somewhere to dictate that all satire must be "responsible", must follow its founding Swiftian maxim, then fine, we don't have to call it that. But whatever it is can still be good, can help those find a little fun in an absurd world. We should care as much about the simply depressed people as we do the possibly confused or evil.
      - tialaramex 2y ago
        I don't think there's a committee, I'm pretty sure I do not have veto over online comedy. Think of this as a pointed criticism of how things could be better, not as a tearing down of what is good. And you don't need to be made a better person per se, but my argument is that the work should try to offer that, not that you must accept it when offered. I don't need to use a toilet on a train most of the time, but I think long distance trains obviously should all have toilets - even if I didn't need one this trip. In larger works the other side of the coin needn't be in the next paragraph. When I read Private Eye for example the cover headline "MAN IN HAT SITS ON CHAIR" isn't doing anything beyond poking fun at the King (the crown is just a hat, the throne is just a chair) but the magazine overall funds a lot of serious investigative journalism and sheds light on important issues. Years before a TV drama made it into a government scandal problems with Horizon and getting justice for those wrongly convicted were extensively discussed in the Eye for example.
    - dogleash 2y ago
      > I believe we ask and expect too much of satire Yes, if you expect anything from satire you expect too much. Let it be art, not propaganda. Allow yourself to find poor execution of agreeable messages distasteful. Allow yourself to enjoy good execution of messages you disagree with.
  - jancsika 2y ago
    > The core idea of satire I've never read this definition from any historical author or famous literary critic. I think you made this up yourself from first principles-- am I right on that? In any case, this definition would make a special case out of Animal Farm which is probably the most famous satire. I cringe imagining Orwell have one of the animals "dismiss" his preferred theoretical vision of good governance as a wink to the audience. I don't even think Orwell presumed to know what that would look like.
  - mywittyname 2y ago
    Satire requires a good deal of intelligence and education to both write and consume. Without those two inputs, satire is a propaganda. When you take a satirical concept and ratchet up the absurdity such that only ignorant (willfully or otherwise) people believe it, the result can be a powerful influence over them. Conspiracy theories often use this approach, as do talking heads on some networks. Think about how early Stephen Colbert skits often comprised of him acting like Bill O'Reilly; not saying funny things in the style of O'Reilly, but merely imitating him. The difference between satire and propaganda is often packaging and audience. For another example, you can look at posts of people who read Onion articles without realizing they are satire. These people are often pissed off, so much so that they share a 3 year old article on social media to spread the word.
  - rusk 2y ago
    The original idea of satire was to make fun of unjust leaders. It doesn’t have to be as sophisticated as swift at all. It just has to strike a chord (originally, literally) with the audience.
reaperducer 2y ago
keep running the site as-is but swap out the insanity for stuff that reads like insanity but is legit or morally sound. Sounds like that's sort of what's happening: "The publication plans to reintroduce Infowars in January as a parody of itself, mocking “weird internet personalities” like Mr. Jones who traffic in misinformation and health supplements, Ben Collins, the chief executive of The Onion’s parent company, Global Tetrahedron, said in an interview." https://www.nytimes.com/2024/11/14/business/media/alex-jones-infowars-the-onion.html https://www.nytimes.com/2024/11/14/business/media/alex-jones...
burnt-resistor 2y ago
Yep. Insert little-known stories that are documented conspiracies that aren't hypotheticals similar to the fine content of DamnInteresting. Be sure to use lots of graphics and editoralizing/clickbait headlines. - Radium girls - Eugenics experiments - Forced sterilization - ~600 Tennessee sober "drunk driving" arrests
- ImHereToVote 2y ago
  - Project Timber Sycamore - The Douma Gas hoax Fun times.
- Lammy 2y ago
  > documented conspiracies that aren't hypotheticals And, ironically since it's what launched Jones' career, Bohemian Club & Grove: https://x.com/abbieasr/status/1462953203067240450 https://x.com/abbieasr/status/1462953203067240450 Luckily my conscience is clean because I discovered the existence of that place not from AJ but by studying the North Pacific Coast Railroad, which used to go directly to The Grove in Sonoma: https://archive.org/details/bwb_W7-BOG-168 https://archive.org/details/bwb_W7-BOG-168 https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=1SkFrgLj-TR4gyw9Y4mqcKWAUZUw&ll=38.19757197708177%2C-122.787061&z=9 https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=1SkFrgLj-TR4gyw9Y4m... For anyone so inclined, the path of the NPCR makes a beautiful Sunday drive! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXh0bQIZw1g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXh0bQIZw1g
  - Lammy 2y ago
    > And, ironically since it's what launched Jones' career, Bohemian Club & Grove: https://x.com/abbieasr/status/1462953203067240450 https://x.com/abbieasr/status/1462953203067240450 Too late to edit but I just realized the version of this I linked removed the “Bohemian Club” that was present in this older version. Strange! https://x.com/abbieasr/status/1312512066071060480 https://x.com/abbieasr/status/1312512066071060480
    - quickthrowman 2y ago
      What is the conspiracy? It’s a social club for old rich men that has some goofy rituals. It’s just freemasonry for the upper crust elite.
hinkley 2y ago
[flagged]
akira2501 2y ago
> The audience might not notice, and could (IMHO) easily be duped into supporting good causes! What a deranged fantasy this is and yet how often it shows up. The audience will notice. Those who don't and eventually discover your duplicity will never forgive you for it. What you propose is disgusting and amoral, as it has no value, and is designed to mollify yourself by bulling people you clearly perceive as being beneath you.
- idle_zealot 2y ago
  It's amoral (sic) to improve the accuracy of a journalistic publication you've purchased? I'm struggling to find a more charitable way to interpret your statement. Or is just the usage of the word "duped"? Some people are more interested in sensational rhetoric than more even-keeled reporting. It's unfortunate that they're currently mostly taken advantage of by hucksters. I think the creation of publications genuinely interested in facts but that use more appealing rhetoric is important to preserving journalism as an institution.
MathMonkeyMan 2y ago
The receptive audience would notice and then find other venues, I suspect. Especially with the warning of the former webmaster. Crazy bullshit is only tempting if it's part of your engrieved group. A clever roleplay won't have the spiritual depravtivy needed.
trash_cat 2y ago
I think this is called "Black Propaganda".

consumer451 2y ago

This is exactly what I was thinking. Being funny is great, but for years people will continue to go to the website not knowing what has transpired.

tialaramex 2y ago
The core idea of satire, which is often missed in supposedly satirical works is that you should not only make fun of the thing you don't believe, but you should also explain what you do believe under the cover of pretending to dismiss it. For example everybody knows Swift's Modest Proposal does not seriously intend that the problems in Ireland ought to be fixed by literally eating children, but if you read it, the proposal also very clearly explains what should be done, in the form of taxation of the wealthy absentee landlords (many of them English) for example - it just couches all these boring but entirely reasonable steps as ludicrous and easily dismissed while insisting that eating babies is a good idea.
- josefresco 2y ago
  > The core idea of satire, which is often missed in supposedly satirical works is that you should not only make fun of the thing you don't believe, but you should also explain what you do believe under the cover of pretending to dismiss it. I often suggest that satire is a dangerous double edged sword and not a good primary vehicle for positive change. Part of your audience will understand it's satire, but a significant part maybe even a majority, might take is as genuine or worse come to embrace/support the satirized. I believe we ask and expect too much of satire which relies heavily on hypocrisy and shame, two concepts that no longer carry the same weight. Examples: South Park, The Colbert Report, SNL, The Onion
  - beepbooptheory 2y ago
    I definitely see the problems you are pointing out, but ultimately these calls from you and gp to forms of responsibility or to be a "vehicle for positive change" of satirical or otherwise funny things leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I just sometimes want things to be cathartic, I don't really care if they are pushing the needle of the world's ills. I want to be able to laugh and not necessarily be a better person for it! There has got to be some space for that too, right? And ok, if there is some committee somewhere to dictate that all satire must be "responsible", must follow its founding Swiftian maxim, then fine, we don't have to call it that. But whatever it is can still be good, can help those find a little fun in an absurd world. We should care as much about the simply depressed people as we do the possibly confused or evil.
    - tialaramex 2y ago
      I don't think there's a committee, I'm pretty sure I do not have veto over online comedy. Think of this as a pointed criticism of how things could be better, not as a tearing down of what is good. And you don't need to be made a better person per se, but my argument is that the work should try to offer that, not that you must accept it when offered. I don't need to use a toilet on a train most of the time, but I think long distance trains obviously should all have toilets - even if I didn't need one this trip. In larger works the other side of the coin needn't be in the next paragraph. When I read Private Eye for example the cover headline "MAN IN HAT SITS ON CHAIR" isn't doing anything beyond poking fun at the King (the crown is just a hat, the throne is just a chair) but the magazine overall funds a lot of serious investigative journalism and sheds light on important issues. Years before a TV drama made it into a government scandal problems with Horizon and getting justice for those wrongly convicted were extensively discussed in the Eye for example.
  - dogleash 2y ago
    > I believe we ask and expect too much of satire Yes, if you expect anything from satire you expect too much. Let it be art, not propaganda. Allow yourself to find poor execution of agreeable messages distasteful. Allow yourself to enjoy good execution of messages you disagree with.
- jancsika 2y ago
  > The core idea of satire I've never read this definition from any historical author or famous literary critic. I think you made this up yourself from first principles-- am I right on that? In any case, this definition would make a special case out of Animal Farm which is probably the most famous satire. I cringe imagining Orwell have one of the animals "dismiss" his preferred theoretical vision of good governance as a wink to the audience. I don't even think Orwell presumed to know what that would look like.
- mywittyname 2y ago
  Satire requires a good deal of intelligence and education to both write and consume. Without those two inputs, satire is a propaganda. When you take a satirical concept and ratchet up the absurdity such that only ignorant (willfully or otherwise) people believe it, the result can be a powerful influence over them. Conspiracy theories often use this approach, as do talking heads on some networks. Think about how early Stephen Colbert skits often comprised of him acting like Bill O'Reilly; not saying funny things in the style of O'Reilly, but merely imitating him. The difference between satire and propaganda is often packaging and audience. For another example, you can look at posts of people who read Onion articles without realizing they are satire. These people are often pissed off, so much so that they share a 3 year old article on social media to spread the word.
- rusk 2y ago
  The original idea of satire was to make fun of unjust leaders. It doesn’t have to be as sophisticated as swift at all. It just has to strike a chord (originally, literally) with the audience.

reaperducer 2y ago

keep running the site as-is but swap out the insanity for stuff that reads like insanity but is legit or morally sound. Sounds like that's sort of what's happening: "The publication plans to reintroduce Infowars in January as a parody of itself, mocking “weird internet personalities” like Mr. Jones who traffic in misinformation and health supplements, Ben Collins, the chief executive of The Onion’s parent company, Global Tetrahedron, said in an interview." https://www.nytimes.com/2024/11/14/business/media/alex-jones-infowars-the-onion.html https://www.nytimes.com/2024/11/14/business/media/alex-jones...

burnt-resistor 2y ago

Yep. Insert little-known stories that are documented conspiracies that aren't hypotheticals similar to the fine content of DamnInteresting. Be sure to use lots of graphics and editoralizing/clickbait headlines. - Radium girls - Eugenics experiments - Forced sterilization - ~600 Tennessee sober "drunk driving" arrests

ImHereToVote 2y ago
- Project Timber Sycamore - The Douma Gas hoax Fun times.
Lammy 2y ago
> documented conspiracies that aren't hypotheticals And, ironically since it's what launched Jones' career, Bohemian Club & Grove: https://x.com/abbieasr/status/1462953203067240450 https://x.com/abbieasr/status/1462953203067240450 Luckily my conscience is clean because I discovered the existence of that place not from AJ but by studying the North Pacific Coast Railroad, which used to go directly to The Grove in Sonoma: https://archive.org/details/bwb_W7-BOG-168 https://archive.org/details/bwb_W7-BOG-168 https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=1SkFrgLj-TR4gyw9Y4mqcKWAUZUw&ll=38.19757197708177%2C-122.787061&z=9 https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=1SkFrgLj-TR4gyw9Y4m... For anyone so inclined, the path of the NPCR makes a beautiful Sunday drive! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXh0bQIZw1g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXh0bQIZw1g
- Lammy 2y ago
  > And, ironically since it's what launched Jones' career, Bohemian Club & Grove: https://x.com/abbieasr/status/1462953203067240450 https://x.com/abbieasr/status/1462953203067240450 Too late to edit but I just realized the version of this I linked removed the “Bohemian Club” that was present in this older version. Strange! https://x.com/abbieasr/status/1312512066071060480 https://x.com/abbieasr/status/1312512066071060480
  - quickthrowman 2y ago
    What is the conspiracy? It’s a social club for old rich men that has some goofy rituals. It’s just freemasonry for the upper crust elite.

hinkley 2y ago

[flagged]

akira2501 2y ago

> The audience might not notice, and could (IMHO) easily be duped into supporting good causes! What a deranged fantasy this is and yet how often it shows up. The audience will notice. Those who don't and eventually discover your duplicity will never forgive you for it. What you propose is disgusting and amoral, as it has no value, and is designed to mollify yourself by bulling people you clearly perceive as being beneath you.

idle_zealot 2y ago
It's amoral (sic) to improve the accuracy of a journalistic publication you've purchased? I'm struggling to find a more charitable way to interpret your statement. Or is just the usage of the word "duped"? Some people are more interested in sensational rhetoric than more even-keeled reporting. It's unfortunate that they're currently mostly taken advantage of by hucksters. I think the creation of publications genuinely interested in facts but that use more appealing rhetoric is important to preserving journalism as an institution.

MathMonkeyMan 2y ago

The receptive audience would notice and then find other venues, I suspect. Especially with the warning of the former webmaster. Crazy bullshit is only tempting if it's part of your engrieved group. A clever roleplay won't have the spiritual depravtivy needed.

trash_cat 2y ago

I think this is called "Black Propaganda".