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> And why should I need to buy an Apple cable to get my PC docking station to work? Because https://appleinsider.com/articles/22/04/23/teardown-of-apples-new-l

> And why should I need to buy an Apple cable to get my PC docking station to work? Because https://appleinsider.com/articles/22/04/23/teardown-of-apples-new-long-thunderbolt-4-pro-cable-highlights-why-its-so-expensive https://appleinsider.com/articles/22/04/23/teardown-of-apple... For a "senior editor" of PC World admitting to using multiple cables, not just the TB5, that rate less than he needs, to complain things didn't seem to work right, feels like the real headline is "first, use the right cables".

venusenvy47 2y ago
He says that he used a Kensington Thunderbolt 5 cable, so I think that just reinforces the story that the vendors don't have things implemented properly yet.
eitally 2y ago
The biggest problem with all this is that it's very nearly impossible to tell what kind of cable you have most of the time. If you're lucky (or purchased wisely), the cable will have it's type and class printed on it, but most don't -- certainly not OEM cables that ship with devices. And by now, most of us probably have a dozen or more USB-C cables of various sorts. Some of these may be TB cables. Some may even be TB4 cables. Some may even be data-only cables. But it's hard to keep track, and it's stupidly expensive to just replace everything every time a new standard is available [on one specific device].
- gyomu 2y ago
  Has no one made a nifty app that shows you what cable is plugged in to what port? Or is that not even technically feasible?
  - benoau 2y ago
    That's an interesting proposition, I'd love to see what a USB-C port is without a cable too instead of googling specs.
  - sirn 2y ago
    Not an app, but some USB testers (e.g. POWER-Z KM003) can do this by reading an e-Marker chip on the cable. I'm not sure if there's a way to access eMarker purely through software without some sort of driver support, though.
    - miahi 2y ago
      The problem is that a cable saying that it's something does not mean that it actually conforms to the standard and can deliver that speed/power. And proper testing requires complex hardware.
      - saurik 2y ago
        That's true of every cable that has ever existed, including basic electrical wiring, and so feels like a separate problem than merely identifying what kind of cable a cable even intends/claims to be in a world where they all have the same shape connector: don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.
    - radicality 2y ago
      Just bought that tester two weeks ago! Labelling my cables now with type / speed / max power
- fnueiwfg923 2y ago
  The ones I hate most are those cursed only-charging/no-data usb-c cables. Otherwise I just assume everything is USB2 unless it looks expensive. And all my thunderbolt cables right the thunderbolt version, not sure if that is universal though.
- crote 2y ago
  The most annoying part is that there is actually a perfectly fine standard for labeling USB-C cables.[0] If a cable can transfer 80Gbps of data and 240W of power, it's supposed to simply have "80Gbps / 240W" written right on the connector. Some rare cables actually do this[1], but the vast majority of manufacturers just can't be bothered with it. [0]: https://www.usb.org/sites/default/files/usb_type-c_cable_logo_usage_guidelines_20240903.pdf https://www.usb.org/sites/default/files/usb_type-c_cable_log... [1]: https://www.amazon.com/Anker-Supports-Display-Transfer-Charging/dp/B09YM3V7NX https://www.amazon.com/Anker-Supports-Display-Transfer-Charg...
- HowardStark 2y ago
  Is there a robust library for good quality cables somewhere? I remember a few blog posts that did larger tear downs, but I’d love to just be able to go to a site that has validated cables and know with some confidence “this is a real TB5 cable”
crote 2y ago
That teardown (and the similar Lumafield scan) is quite misleading, though. Nothing about that is Apple-specific, or makes the cable in any way "better". A signal will degrade as it travels through a cable. The longer the cable, the more it degrades. At USB4/TB4/TB5 speeds you can make a cable up to about 80cm before it starts to become a problem. Any cable longer than ~80cm needs active electronics to boost the signal's quality. Apple's cable is 180cm, so it has those electronics. Any 180cm long USB4 cable made by any manufacturer is going to have them.

venusenvy47 2y ago

He says that he used a Kensington Thunderbolt 5 cable, so I think that just reinforces the story that the vendors don't have things implemented properly yet.

eitally 2y ago

The biggest problem with all this is that it's very nearly impossible to tell what kind of cable you have most of the time. If you're lucky (or purchased wisely), the cable will have it's type and class printed on it, but most don't -- certainly not OEM cables that ship with devices. And by now, most of us probably have a dozen or more USB-C cables of various sorts. Some of these may be TB cables. Some may even be TB4 cables. Some may even be data-only cables. But it's hard to keep track, and it's stupidly expensive to just replace everything every time a new standard is available [on one specific device].

gyomu 2y ago
Has no one made a nifty app that shows you what cable is plugged in to what port? Or is that not even technically feasible?
- benoau 2y ago
  That's an interesting proposition, I'd love to see what a USB-C port is without a cable too instead of googling specs.
- sirn 2y ago
  Not an app, but some USB testers (e.g. POWER-Z KM003) can do this by reading an e-Marker chip on the cable. I'm not sure if there's a way to access eMarker purely through software without some sort of driver support, though.
  - miahi 2y ago
    The problem is that a cable saying that it's something does not mean that it actually conforms to the standard and can deliver that speed/power. And proper testing requires complex hardware.
    - saurik 2y ago
      That's true of every cable that has ever existed, including basic electrical wiring, and so feels like a separate problem than merely identifying what kind of cable a cable even intends/claims to be in a world where they all have the same shape connector: don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.
  - radicality 2y ago
    Just bought that tester two weeks ago! Labelling my cables now with type / speed / max power
fnueiwfg923 2y ago
The ones I hate most are those cursed only-charging/no-data usb-c cables. Otherwise I just assume everything is USB2 unless it looks expensive. And all my thunderbolt cables right the thunderbolt version, not sure if that is universal though.
crote 2y ago
The most annoying part is that there is actually a perfectly fine standard for labeling USB-C cables.[0] If a cable can transfer 80Gbps of data and 240W of power, it's supposed to simply have "80Gbps / 240W" written right on the connector. Some rare cables actually do this[1], but the vast majority of manufacturers just can't be bothered with it. [0]: https://www.usb.org/sites/default/files/usb_type-c_cable_logo_usage_guidelines_20240903.pdf https://www.usb.org/sites/default/files/usb_type-c_cable_log... [1]: https://www.amazon.com/Anker-Supports-Display-Transfer-Charging/dp/B09YM3V7NX https://www.amazon.com/Anker-Supports-Display-Transfer-Charg...
HowardStark 2y ago
Is there a robust library for good quality cables somewhere? I remember a few blog posts that did larger tear downs, but I’d love to just be able to go to a site that has validated cables and know with some confidence “this is a real TB5 cable”

crote 2y ago

That teardown (and the similar Lumafield scan) is quite misleading, though. Nothing about that is Apple-specific, or makes the cable in any way "better". A signal will degrade as it travels through a cable. The longer the cable, the more it degrades. At USB4/TB4/TB5 speeds you can make a cable up to about 80cm before it starts to become a problem. Any cable longer than ~80cm needs active electronics to boost the signal's quality. Apple's cable is 180cm, so it has those electronics. Any 180cm long USB4 cable made by any manufacturer is going to have them.