5 ms·

There's not really a lot of room for anyone to make a board that isn't a curiosity or highly-specific developer platform though. Framework already have both x86

There's not really a lot of room for anyone to make a board that isn't a curiosity or highly-specific developer platform though. Framework already have both x86 vendors covered for people who want Intel or AMD. The only other chip worth making a board for is Snapdragon X Elite. There's nothing else in the same performance class.

boredatoms 2y ago
I hope it becomes a standard format for developer boards
bane 2y ago
There's the possibility of making mainboards with other features though, built-in FPGAs, SDRs, or maybe lower-powered x86 chips for more battery life. I guess that all falls under "curiosity", but I really do hope that the ecosystem for framework compatible parts blow up.
- omeid2 2y ago
  lower-powered x86 has little chance anymore. In 10 years from now, just about every portable system will be ARM-like.
  - timschmidt 2y ago
    Performance per watt is nearly identical for the Apple M4 and the Ryzen AI 9 HX 370, despite the Ryzen being manufactured on 4nm while the M4 is on 3nm: https://www.phoronix.com/review/apple-m4-intel-amd-linux/3 https://www.phoronix.com/review/apple-m4-intel-amd-linux/3 Sorry to burst your bubble.
    - chaxor 2y ago
      The biggest thing I want to see from framework is ARM (or better, Risc-V that achieves great low power performance) with an enormous battery and linux or BSD with all the optimizations to improve battery life. I bought a macbook a while ago specifically because I can get it to last about 45-50 hours non-stop usage on one charge, so getting a system tailored for even better performance and a longer battery life (macbooks could probably double or triple battery life if they bulked up and stopped trying to be so petite) would be incredible. >100 hour battery lifes should be very achiebable for developers, as limiting screen brightness and using only terminal with a black background can increase battery life _enormously_.
      - timschmidt 2y ago
        I agree that would be a delight. I'd even take a color eink or transmissive / reflective LCD to lower the display power draw. But I would still like to be able to equip it with large amounts of storage and ram.
      - tecleandor 2y ago
        Between Zoom (not the whole time, but just by having it in the background), Slack and Crowdstrike's Falcon agent, I usually can't make more than 5 or 6 hours away of a wall outlet with my MacBook Pro M2 Max... I hate corporate software.
        v1ne 2y ago
        Oh, wow. That's a pity. I mean, you're down to the battery time of any random x86 laptop. I usually get barely a working day out of my corporate MacBook Pro M1 with Corpo Security Special Sauce, CLion and Teams. But I have to kill CLion when it gets too crazy (i.e. often). Do you have any insights from Activity Monitor on who is draining the battery? My biggest offenders: - Symantec Data Loss Prevention Agent (x86 Emulation) - $Corporation App Store (I never use it, don't know why it burns CPU time) This corporate "security" software is the essence of everything that's wrong with a corporation.
        tecleandor 2y ago
        If I check the "Last 12 hours app energy use" from my Activity Monitor it's usually Firefox, Zoom, Slack and PyCharm. But that only shows "Apps", not processes. If I list all processes, the one that's almost always in the top is Crowdstrike Falcon. Specially when there's disk access, as it seems to intercept everything...
      - ShirleyMarquez 2y ago
        An Arm motherboard would be a great thing for one of those third parties to make. I don't think Framework has the resources to take it on right now. It's time for them to do an update to the AMD boards, and they do a new Intel one every year...
    - WithinReason 2y ago
      You charts show the M4 having a more than 2x advantage in both MIPS per watt and MB per Joule over the Ryzen
      - timschmidt 2y ago
        Read through the article. Ryzen wins a few, and from a worse node, and with off-package dram, and a much more capable GPU.
        KingOfCoders 2y ago
        "off-package dram" Yes, the real ARM vs. x86 discussion will come around Ryzen Max 2025Q1 with 128mb on-package dram (hope we get desktop board manufacturers to sell this).
        adgjlsfhk1 2y ago
        what does 128mb on package dram help with? That seems like it's way to small to suspend to ram or anything.
        KingOfCoders 2y ago
        "640kb should be enough for everyone" Joke aside, typo, s/mb/gb/g - thanks for catching.
beeflet 2y ago
> that isn't a curiosity or highly-specific developer platform though So what? It would be great to use this as a developer platform because you have the whole chassis and peripherals of a laptop and all you have to make is the mainboard
bitwize 2y ago
Oh, come on. You just know someone's gonna make an Amiga one. And a whole bunch of aging German and Scandinavian hackers are gonna come out and try to convince people, no seriously, this is a great daily driver, you just have to go to Aminet and get the right RTG driver pack for the display panel and...
ShirleyMarquez 2y ago
Yet. There will be competition for the Snapdragon series. At least if Arm doesn't shot itself in the foot with lawsuits; if they do, the real action will shift to RISC-V. I'm sure that the Nuvia developers are already working on a RISC-V chip just in case...

boredatoms 2y ago

I hope it becomes a standard format for developer boards

bane 2y ago

There's the possibility of making mainboards with other features though, built-in FPGAs, SDRs, or maybe lower-powered x86 chips for more battery life. I guess that all falls under "curiosity", but I really do hope that the ecosystem for framework compatible parts blow up.

omeid2 2y ago
lower-powered x86 has little chance anymore. In 10 years from now, just about every portable system will be ARM-like.
- timschmidt 2y ago
  Performance per watt is nearly identical for the Apple M4 and the Ryzen AI 9 HX 370, despite the Ryzen being manufactured on 4nm while the M4 is on 3nm: https://www.phoronix.com/review/apple-m4-intel-amd-linux/3 https://www.phoronix.com/review/apple-m4-intel-amd-linux/3 Sorry to burst your bubble.
  - chaxor 2y ago
    The biggest thing I want to see from framework is ARM (or better, Risc-V that achieves great low power performance) with an enormous battery and linux or BSD with all the optimizations to improve battery life. I bought a macbook a while ago specifically because I can get it to last about 45-50 hours non-stop usage on one charge, so getting a system tailored for even better performance and a longer battery life (macbooks could probably double or triple battery life if they bulked up and stopped trying to be so petite) would be incredible. >100 hour battery lifes should be very achiebable for developers, as limiting screen brightness and using only terminal with a black background can increase battery life _enormously_.
    - timschmidt 2y ago
      I agree that would be a delight. I'd even take a color eink or transmissive / reflective LCD to lower the display power draw. But I would still like to be able to equip it with large amounts of storage and ram.
    - tecleandor 2y ago
      Between Zoom (not the whole time, but just by having it in the background), Slack and Crowdstrike's Falcon agent, I usually can't make more than 5 or 6 hours away of a wall outlet with my MacBook Pro M2 Max... I hate corporate software.
      - v1ne 2y ago
        Oh, wow. That's a pity. I mean, you're down to the battery time of any random x86 laptop. I usually get barely a working day out of my corporate MacBook Pro M1 with Corpo Security Special Sauce, CLion and Teams. But I have to kill CLion when it gets too crazy (i.e. often). Do you have any insights from Activity Monitor on who is draining the battery? My biggest offenders: - Symantec Data Loss Prevention Agent (x86 Emulation) - $Corporation App Store (I never use it, don't know why it burns CPU time) This corporate "security" software is the essence of everything that's wrong with a corporation.
        tecleandor 2y ago
        If I check the "Last 12 hours app energy use" from my Activity Monitor it's usually Firefox, Zoom, Slack and PyCharm. But that only shows "Apps", not processes. If I list all processes, the one that's almost always in the top is Crowdstrike Falcon. Specially when there's disk access, as it seems to intercept everything...
    - ShirleyMarquez 2y ago
      An Arm motherboard would be a great thing for one of those third parties to make. I don't think Framework has the resources to take it on right now. It's time for them to do an update to the AMD boards, and they do a new Intel one every year...
  - WithinReason 2y ago
    You charts show the M4 having a more than 2x advantage in both MIPS per watt and MB per Joule over the Ryzen
    - timschmidt 2y ago
      Read through the article. Ryzen wins a few, and from a worse node, and with off-package dram, and a much more capable GPU.
      - KingOfCoders 2y ago
        "off-package dram" Yes, the real ARM vs. x86 discussion will come around Ryzen Max 2025Q1 with 128mb on-package dram (hope we get desktop board manufacturers to sell this).
        adgjlsfhk1 2y ago
        what does 128mb on package dram help with? That seems like it's way to small to suspend to ram or anything.
        KingOfCoders 2y ago
        "640kb should be enough for everyone" Joke aside, typo, s/mb/gb/g - thanks for catching.

beeflet 2y ago

> that isn't a curiosity or highly-specific developer platform though So what? It would be great to use this as a developer platform because you have the whole chassis and peripherals of a laptop and all you have to make is the mainboard

bitwize 2y ago

Oh, come on. You just know someone's gonna make an Amiga one. And a whole bunch of aging German and Scandinavian hackers are gonna come out and try to convince people, no seriously, this is a great daily driver, you just have to go to Aminet and get the right RTG driver pack for the display panel and...

ShirleyMarquez 2y ago

Yet. There will be competition for the Snapdragon series. At least if Arm doesn't shot itself in the foot with lawsuits; if they do, the real action will shift to RISC-V. I'm sure that the Nuvia developers are already working on a RISC-V chip just in case...