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Wait. I'm confused reading the admission comments. It seems you get admitted to UW undergrad, and then after two years you apply to the CSE thing. Are you cons

Wait. I'm confused reading the admission comments. It seems you get admitted to UW undergrad, and then after two years you apply to the CSE thing. Are you considered undeclared until then? Is there any kind of test or is it entirely based on grades in the initial weeder classes? That seems like kind of a big risk to people who want to study a specific subject and might not get admitted to it. The'd just have to switch career ambitions or start over at another college with about a one year delay for transferring. Most state schools I see admit you to a specific major before you matriculate. Then you can change fairly flexibly within your department if you have the right classes and good grades. Elite schools usually admit undeclared students and then have them choose an area of study after a year with no further admission criteria. Are the UW faculty trying to build an elite program inside a non-elite university? That's an interesting idea, but I don't think I'd want to be the guinea pig who has to suffer for it.

seanmcdirmid 14y ago
First, UW is already mostly an elite university; its very hard to get in these days without the means to also getting into other elite universities like Stanford or UCB. Second, if all you want to do is make it into UW CSE, it is a risk. I remember the anxiety I went through as an undergrad waiting to here about whether I was excepted into the program or not. I got in, but it was by no means certain (I had 2.9/3.2/3.8 grades for physics, mostly do to me being slow to adjust to high-pressure weed out classes). I believe most public state schools are like this, they might have a few programs that are very high-quality compared to others, and therefore have to limit supply even after they have accepted students into the general population.
- nickbarnwell 14y ago
  > First, UW is already mostly an elite university UW had a ~58% admit rate in 2011, MIT's was 9.6%, Harvard's was 6.2%, and Stanford was 7.1%. To say "it's very hard to get in these days without the means to also getting into other elite universities" is patently false.
  - seanmcdirmid 14y ago
    Admit rates for private schools are lower since they generally take from a national pool, and the schools are quite popular (lots of noise applications with no chance of getting in). In comparison, UCB has a 21% admit rate from a large state of California and lots of other research schools in competition (UCSD, UCLA, UCD...). UW is only one of two research state schools in Washington, the other being WSU way across the state. Admission is incredibly convoluted: you chance of getting in from the Seattle area is much lower than Eastern Washington, and out of state students have a higher chance than in state (they pay more tuition). This means there are cases (personally known of) where a student is rejected from UW and is accepted into UCB and Stanford (though they have to pay a lot more tuition accordingly).
    - nickbarnwell 14y ago
      I am very aware of how the process works and how one's chances are based on holistic factors. Regardless, I spent the last year at UW and to say it's an elite school one would need to ignore large swaths of those who attend. I have had the fortune to speak with tens of former and current Stanford attendees while at Google this summer - overwhelmingly their ability to carry on an interesting conversation, make nuanced insights into diverse topics, and otherwise convey the impression that they are learned individuals far exceeds that of your typical UW student. That is not to say that they don't exist - I could say the same for a handful of UW students - merely that their number is far smaller, and that that greatly impacts the culture. If you want empirical data, a student in the 25th percentile at MIT has a higher SAT score than someone in the 75th at UW. The SAT has been shown to be a fairly reliable indicator of earning potential. [1] Estimating the Payoff to Attending a More Selective College, Dale & Krueger
      - seanmcdirmid 14y ago
        UW is still a local state school; you shouldn't expect that students come in with the level of prep as say MIT or Stanford. Its elitness is local and comes mainly from the challenge of getting in, which, for those that bother to try (because they are in the Seattle area), is painful enough! UW also tended to weed students out rather early while I was there; 50% of my friends from the incoming class were gone by the time I hit my sophmore year. Of course, UW is not as exclusive as UW CSE, but to suggest UW itself is just a so so University is insulting to me.
edwinnathaniel 14y ago
North of Washington, across the border, we have 2 big name schools: UBC and SFU. Both schools require prospective students to spend 1 to 2 years (SFU 1-year, UBC 2-years) taking "required courses" (Math, Physics, Chemistry, Biology, CS courses, and a few GEs) before they can apply to the CS program. Both UBC and SFU have solid track records (beating UW consistently) when it comes to ACM CS competition: https://sites.google.com/site/ubcprogrammingteam/history https://sites.google.com/site/ubcprogrammingteam/history Yes, gotta start some sort of pride-war between schools no? :)
- specialist 14y ago
  taking "required courses" (Math, Physics, Chemistry, Biology... So smart. Many of my best developers came from outside of CS: bus driver, ballet dancer, EE, history, poly sci, mfg, aerospace, etc.
  - edwinnathaniel 14y ago
    It's the same story with EE at UBC to my knowledge; they also have to spend 1-2 years taking required courses so they're not that far different really. What is exactly you're trying to point out? :)
tylermenezes 14y ago
There are quite a few universities which use this system. Basically, you get admitted to the school, take some prerequisite classes, then apply to the major. For most majors, just having taken the prerequisites will get you in. UW's CSE program is what's called "highly competitive", i.e. good luck. And yes, it's quite high risk. After being rejected my co-founder printed out his rejection letter and framed it, dropped out of UW, and took a job as the head of development for a local iPhone shop. Most people either keep trying, or switch to a math major. It's extremely stupid and elitist.

seanmcdirmid 14y ago

First, UW is already mostly an elite university; its very hard to get in these days without the means to also getting into other elite universities like Stanford or UCB. Second, if all you want to do is make it into UW CSE, it is a risk. I remember the anxiety I went through as an undergrad waiting to here about whether I was excepted into the program or not. I got in, but it was by no means certain (I had 2.9/3.2/3.8 grades for physics, mostly do to me being slow to adjust to high-pressure weed out classes). I believe most public state schools are like this, they might have a few programs that are very high-quality compared to others, and therefore have to limit supply even after they have accepted students into the general population.

nickbarnwell 14y ago
> First, UW is already mostly an elite university UW had a ~58% admit rate in 2011, MIT's was 9.6%, Harvard's was 6.2%, and Stanford was 7.1%. To say "it's very hard to get in these days without the means to also getting into other elite universities" is patently false.
- seanmcdirmid 14y ago
  Admit rates for private schools are lower since they generally take from a national pool, and the schools are quite popular (lots of noise applications with no chance of getting in). In comparison, UCB has a 21% admit rate from a large state of California and lots of other research schools in competition (UCSD, UCLA, UCD...). UW is only one of two research state schools in Washington, the other being WSU way across the state. Admission is incredibly convoluted: you chance of getting in from the Seattle area is much lower than Eastern Washington, and out of state students have a higher chance than in state (they pay more tuition). This means there are cases (personally known of) where a student is rejected from UW and is accepted into UCB and Stanford (though they have to pay a lot more tuition accordingly).
  - nickbarnwell 14y ago
    I am very aware of how the process works and how one's chances are based on holistic factors. Regardless, I spent the last year at UW and to say it's an elite school one would need to ignore large swaths of those who attend. I have had the fortune to speak with tens of former and current Stanford attendees while at Google this summer - overwhelmingly their ability to carry on an interesting conversation, make nuanced insights into diverse topics, and otherwise convey the impression that they are learned individuals far exceeds that of your typical UW student. That is not to say that they don't exist - I could say the same for a handful of UW students - merely that their number is far smaller, and that that greatly impacts the culture. If you want empirical data, a student in the 25th percentile at MIT has a higher SAT score than someone in the 75th at UW. The SAT has been shown to be a fairly reliable indicator of earning potential. [1] Estimating the Payoff to Attending a More Selective College, Dale & Krueger
    - seanmcdirmid 14y ago
      UW is still a local state school; you shouldn't expect that students come in with the level of prep as say MIT or Stanford. Its elitness is local and comes mainly from the challenge of getting in, which, for those that bother to try (because they are in the Seattle area), is painful enough! UW also tended to weed students out rather early while I was there; 50% of my friends from the incoming class were gone by the time I hit my sophmore year. Of course, UW is not as exclusive as UW CSE, but to suggest UW itself is just a so so University is insulting to me.

edwinnathaniel 14y ago

North of Washington, across the border, we have 2 big name schools: UBC and SFU. Both schools require prospective students to spend 1 to 2 years (SFU 1-year, UBC 2-years) taking "required courses" (Math, Physics, Chemistry, Biology, CS courses, and a few GEs) before they can apply to the CS program. Both UBC and SFU have solid track records (beating UW consistently) when it comes to ACM CS competition: https://sites.google.com/site/ubcprogrammingteam/history https://sites.google.com/site/ubcprogrammingteam/history Yes, gotta start some sort of pride-war between schools no? :)

specialist 14y ago
taking "required courses" (Math, Physics, Chemistry, Biology... So smart. Many of my best developers came from outside of CS: bus driver, ballet dancer, EE, history, poly sci, mfg, aerospace, etc.
- edwinnathaniel 14y ago
  It's the same story with EE at UBC to my knowledge; they also have to spend 1-2 years taking required courses so they're not that far different really. What is exactly you're trying to point out? :)

tylermenezes 14y ago

There are quite a few universities which use this system. Basically, you get admitted to the school, take some prerequisite classes, then apply to the major. For most majors, just having taken the prerequisites will get you in. UW's CSE program is what's called "highly competitive", i.e. good luck. And yes, it's quite high risk. After being rejected my co-founder printed out his rejection letter and framed it, dropped out of UW, and took a job as the head of development for a local iPhone shop. Most people either keep trying, or switch to a math major. It's extremely stupid and elitist.