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EU irate about geo-locked Apple IDs
- MBCook 2y agoSo how exactly would this work? If the software or movie or whatever is licensed for use in the UK, and you go to France… you’re not in the UK. You don’t have a license to view it right? Unless they someone get rid of licensing geo-restrictions would this accomplish anything? Or would this work in the EU because maybe by law anything you buy in France would also be licensed in other EU countries like Germany, so you should be able to use another EU country store?
- tester89 2y agoIt’s meant to be the latter, only between member states.
- MBCook 2y agoOk that makes sense, I figured it had to be something like that. They couldn’t possibly think they could legislate a single world market. As nice as that may be. I guess that leaves me with the big question: why are there multiple markets. Why didn’t Apple just set up an EU one from the start? The shared market has been around longer than Apple has been selling digital stuff. Maybe it just started out as a way to handle the different languages and sort of evolved to where it is today even though since it’s now more than just music it doesn’t make as much sense?
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- threeseed 2y agoI used to work for Apple so can add some colour. App Store was/is built on top of the iTunes Store infrastructure which was launched only 10 years after the EU single market was created. And it was designed to support music purchases where licensing by country is the standard. And these purchases are tied to your credit card which even to this day is pinned to a particular country. This is how Apple largely implements geo-blocking.
- MBCook 2y agoThanks. I knew it was built on the iTunes Store because I’ve heard stories over the years from developers on podcasts about how sort of creaky it is. It always sounded like they were totally unprepared for the app explosion and not ready to handle that kind of volume in something that was more complicated than a simple song file that never changed. But shouldn’t music licensing in the EU not have been by country at that point?
- p_l 2y agoEssentially, if you legally bought something in member state A, it has to remain being accessible if you move to another member state unless there's very specific regulatory limitations (i.e. not something the vendor can decide on, pretty much). Considerable part of the push with Digital Single Market is that it should be, well, single market.
- MBCook 2y agoOK. It’s good to get confirmation on that. Now I’m just left with the question of how Apple ended up in this configuration of stores. See my reply under the sibling comment to yours.
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- dogma1138 2y agoThe geo blocking directive doesn’t cover media and the EU is not interested in extending the cover. However there are two issues here, first is that apps and services (with a few exceptions) are generally not allowed to be geo blocked unlike on demand media and live broadcasting and secondly and what is most likely the main issue here is that Apple using the country where the account is registered in rather than the location of the user at the time of service. The former is a likely violation of the directive and the latter for sure is.
- vr46 2y agoGood, I hope they hammer Apple. I moved country and lost around 2/3rd of my TV and Film library, box sets partially complete, films disappeared, TV shows too. I was attempting to build a small collection of decent stuff and didn't expect that I would have to move country, much less that my library decided to stay behind. So pissed off.
- mingus88 2y agoI feel for you but this isn’t an Apple problem You didn’t own any content to build a collection with; you held licenses. The content owners are the studios and they decide where to sell their content, in which legal jurisdictions and for how much. As a license holder you don’t have rights to the content in every jurisdiction. As much as I hate to rep with folk like the MPAA if there are different laws in different areas, they can’t have a one size fits all solution. (I sail the seven seas as my one size fits all solution because if buying isn’t owning then…)
- vr46 2y agoIt very much is an Apple problem because I purchased my stuff from them and not from anyone else. The buck has to stop there. Secondly, I already bought the thing, I don’t care that the thing is no longer sold where I happen to be standing. The rights holders already got their money. If retail suddenly means that one side gets to renegotiate the deal, then yeah, I think we have a problem. Give me the money back. I’m well aware how licensing content works, I just want post-purchase shenanigans to stop. Any space on that boat?
- fn-mote 2y ago> [...] I just want post-purchase shenanigans to stop. I think many people here support that. It's the blaming of Apple that we are finding problematic. You know the laws and want somebody to blame. I don't like it either. I would definitely support changes. I keep my collection 90% DRM free for this reason, though. Well, I suppose my DVD's aren't DRM free, but you can't make my physical player disappear by flipping a switch in Cupertino. [Ed: Ok, I read TFA. The connection between the geo-locked apple ID's and the per-country availability & pricing isn't well explained.]
- snvzz 2y agoExponential sanctions, and blanket ban for non-compliance. Detain any executives on-sight as well. Big corpo cannot be allowed to pretend they are above government.
- GeekyBear 2y agoI am reminded of the EU push against DRM encumbered music nearly two decades ago. > Much of the concern over DRM systems has arisen in European countries. Perhaps those unhappy with the current situation should redirect their energies towards persuading the music companies to sell their music DRM-free. For Europeans, two and a half of the big four music companies are located right in their backyard. The largest, Universal, is 100% owned by Vivendi, a French company. EMI is a British company, and Sony BMG is 50% owned by Bertelsmann, a German company. Convincing them to license their music to Apple and others DRM-free will create a truly interoperable music marketplace. Apple will embrace this wholeheartedly. https://macdailynews.com/2007/02/06/apple_ceo_steve_jobs_posts_rare_open_letter_thoughts_on_music/ https://macdailynews.com/2007/02/06/apple_ceo_steve_jobs_pos... My question is, "where does the requirement that content be licensed in only one country" contractually originate?
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago> My question is, "where does the requirement that content be licensed in only one country" contractually originate? From the Vivendis and EMIs who want to sell the same song to Britons at a higher price than the Romanians will pay. It's not like countries aren't in on the action, too. Mandatory notices, censorship laws, et cetera vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction.
- GeekyBear 2y agoI guess the solution is the same as it was two decades ago for music. Force the rights holders to only sell their digital content DRM-free.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago> Force the rights holders to only sell their digital content DRM-free You'd also have to convince the EU governments to normalise their content regulations. Good luck with that.
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- drivingmenuts 2y agoThe correct solution, as unpleasant as it sounds, is to determine which country can afford the highest price on a given product and lock the price at that point for the entire EU. So. whatever Switzerland can afford is what the rest of the EU pays for things.
- p_l 2y agoSwitzerland is not part of the EU nor part of the single market.
- xg15 2y agoGreat, this would of course mean prices rising for the entire rest of Europe. Why would that be the "correct" solution?
- from-nibly 2y agoThis is how it works in the us and why there is only one store. Can't have your cake and eat it too.
- justinclift 2y agoWhy would that be a good solution, let alone the "correct" one?
- 762236 2y agoThis would be like punishing Apple users for relocating from California to New York. Crazy.
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- crazygringo 2y agoI don't understand the complaint. The article says: > More specifically, the CPC takes issue with the fact that Apple restricts user accounts – or Apple IDs – to being able to access storefronts, pay for products or download apps only from the country where an account is registered – a practice "which is not allowed under EU's anti-geo-blocking rules." The EC noted that this creates problems when EU citizens travel to different countries in the bloc, and noted that Apple customers "face significant challenges" when attempting to change their country of registration. Is this about app availability? I doubt it, aren't most developers going to make their app available Europe-wide? Why would you care that you can't get the Italian app "storefront" because you're French? And if a developer makes something Italy-only, isn't that their choice? Or is this about media purchases? Which doesn't have anything to do with Apple, but rather with content licenses. Because this article doesn't provide even a single concrete example of what it's talking about, so it's hard to figure out what the complaint even is.
- xg15 2y ago> Why would you care that you can't get the Italian app "storefront" because you're French? Because you might be traveling in Italy and try to use some locally-developed Italian app while you're there, e.g. some municipal public transport app. Or you might even move permanently to Italy while staying a French citizen (and having your Apple ID still registered as French). > And if a developer makes something Italy-only, isn't that their choice? I think the entire point is that, in the EU, it's not.
- crazygringo 2y agoBut surely a transport app will make itself available to the whole EU because it wants to be available to tourists. So why does there even need to be a law around this at all? Presumably apps want to be popular and aren't going to limit themselves to 1 country in the EU. So what is the problem the EU is even trying to solve here? I'm genuinely asking, because not a single example is given. I don't want something theoretical, I'm asking where is a case of someone experiencing actual harm. Because it's very hard to understand this otherwise. Is this actually about apps? Or is it about licensed content like music? Is it anything Apple even has power to change here?
- linarism 2y agoAs I understand geo-locking is done for Mainland China accounts as well, so nothing new.
- akmarinov 2y agoAs I understand geo-locking isn’t done when in New Jersey, compared to Oklahoma, so lots of new