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I'm really curious to see where higher education will go now that we have LLM's. I imagine the bar will just keep getting higher and more will be able to taught

I'm really curious to see where higher education will go now that we have LLM's. I imagine the bar will just keep getting higher and more will be able to taught in less time. Are there any students here who started uni just before LLM's took off and are now finishing their degrees? Have you noticed much change in how your classes are taught?

l33t7332273 2y ago
> I imagine the bar will just keep getting higher and more will be able to taught in less time. But more won’t be able to be _learned_ in less time
- alwayslikethis 2y ago
  A lot of teaching is wasted on those who already knew and those who are ill-prepared to learn. Although I am skeptical of many of the current proponents of AI in education there is clearly a lot of opportunity for improved efficiency here.
- joshdavham 2y ago
  > But more won’t be able to be _learned_ in less time What makes you think that? I feel like I’m able to learn faster with LLMS than I was before.
antegamisou 2y ago
They're still largely abysmal for any other discipline that's not StackOverflow related so apart from ripoff bootcamps (that are dead anyway) higher education is safe for the time being.
- Philadelphia 2y ago
  They’re pretty abysmal for things that are StackOverflow related, too? I’ve tested a lot of things recently, and all of them have had pieces that were just absolutely wrong, including referencing libraries or steps or tools that didn’t exist at all.
drivebyhooting 2y ago
Creative writing does not seem to have a raised bar.
risyachka 2y ago
After calculators were invented basically no one can can do math in their head. I’d argue the bar will be lower and lower. Yeah those who want can learn more in less time. But those who don’t - will learn much less.
- WalterBright 2y ago
  I've noticed that people who rely on calculators have great difficulty recognizing when their answers are off by a factor of 10. I know a hiring manager who asks his (engineering) candidates what is 20% of 20,000? It's amazing how many engineers are completely unable to do this without a calculator. He said they often cry. Of course, they're all "no hire". How did they get a degree, one wonders?
  - l33t7332273 2y ago
    This is a sort of mental math trick that isn’t incredibly useful in day to day engineering. Now if they say 16,000 or something then maybe there’s an argument against them, but being able to calculate a tip on the fly isn’t really something worth selecting for imo
    - SauntSolaire 2y ago
      It's not a "mental math trick", it's a straightforward calculation you should be able to do in your head.
      - bigger_cheese 2y ago
        I don't know if this is a trick but the fast way I did that problem quickly in my head is 20% = (10% X 2) i.e calc 10% of the number then double it. To quickly calc 10% just multiply the number by 0.1 which you can do by moving the decimal point one place 20,000.00 => 2,000.000 then it is easy to double that number. to get 4,000. 17% for example is 1.7 x 10% in this case 1.7 x 2,000 = 3,400
        2y ago
cmontella 2y ago
I teach at the university level, and I just expect more from my students. Instead of implementing data structures like we did when I was in school, something ChatGPT is very good at; my students are building systems, something ChatGPT has more trouble with. Instead of paper exams asking students "find the bug" or "implement a short function", they get a takehome exam where they have to write tests, integrate their project into a CI pipeline, use version control, and implement a dropbox-like system in Rust, which we expect to have a good deal of functionality and accompanying documentation. I tell them go ahead and use whatever they want. It's easier than policing their tools. If they can put it together, and it works, and they can explain it back to me, then I'm satisfied. Even if they use ChatGPT it'll take a great deal of work and knowledge to get running. If ChatGPT suddenly is able to put a project like that together, then I'll ask for even more.
- bondarchuk 2y ago
  Wouldn't it be unfair towards the students who want to learn without LLMs?
  - idopmstuff 2y ago
    Why does that matter? LLMs are going to be increasingly important tools, so it's valuable for educators to help students understand how to use them well. If you choose to exclude modern tools in your teaching to avoid disadvantaging those who don't want to use them, you disadvantage all the students who do want to use them. To put it another way, modern high school level math classes disadvantage students who want to learn without using a calculator, but it would be quite odd to suggest that we should exclude calculators from math curricula as a result.
    - l33t7332273 2y ago
      Many high school classes are taught in such a way that your calculator rarely helps you.
      - skydhash 2y ago
Swizec 2y ago
> I'm really curious to see where higher education will go now that we have LLM's. I imagine the bar will just keep getting higher and more will be able to taught in less time On the other hand, 54% of US adults read and write at a 6th grade level or below. They will get absolutely left in the dust by all this. https://www.snopes.com/news/2022/08/02/us-literacy-rate/ https://www.snopes.com/news/2022/08/02/us-literacy-rate/
- duderific 2y ago
  They have already been left in the dust, even before LLMs, which explains a lot about our current political situation. Ironically, those who can work with their hands may be better positioned than "lightly" college educated persons; LLMs can't fix a car, build a house, or clear a clogged pipe.

l33t7332273 2y ago

> I imagine the bar will just keep getting higher and more will be able to taught in less time. But more won’t be able to be _learned_ in less time

alwayslikethis 2y ago
A lot of teaching is wasted on those who already knew and those who are ill-prepared to learn. Although I am skeptical of many of the current proponents of AI in education there is clearly a lot of opportunity for improved efficiency here.
joshdavham 2y ago
> But more won’t be able to be _learned_ in less time What makes you think that? I feel like I’m able to learn faster with LLMS than I was before.

antegamisou 2y ago

They're still largely abysmal for any other discipline that's not StackOverflow related so apart from ripoff bootcamps (that are dead anyway) higher education is safe for the time being.

Philadelphia 2y ago
They’re pretty abysmal for things that are StackOverflow related, too? I’ve tested a lot of things recently, and all of them have had pieces that were just absolutely wrong, including referencing libraries or steps or tools that didn’t exist at all.

drivebyhooting 2y ago

Creative writing does not seem to have a raised bar.

risyachka 2y ago

After calculators were invented basically no one can can do math in their head. I’d argue the bar will be lower and lower. Yeah those who want can learn more in less time. But those who don’t - will learn much less.

WalterBright 2y ago
I've noticed that people who rely on calculators have great difficulty recognizing when their answers are off by a factor of 10. I know a hiring manager who asks his (engineering) candidates what is 20% of 20,000? It's amazing how many engineers are completely unable to do this without a calculator. He said they often cry. Of course, they're all "no hire". How did they get a degree, one wonders?
- l33t7332273 2y ago
  This is a sort of mental math trick that isn’t incredibly useful in day to day engineering. Now if they say 16,000 or something then maybe there’s an argument against them, but being able to calculate a tip on the fly isn’t really something worth selecting for imo
  - SauntSolaire 2y ago
    It's not a "mental math trick", it's a straightforward calculation you should be able to do in your head.
    - bigger_cheese 2y ago
      I don't know if this is a trick but the fast way I did that problem quickly in my head is 20% = (10% X 2) i.e calc 10% of the number then double it. To quickly calc 10% just multiply the number by 0.1 which you can do by moving the decimal point one place 20,000.00 => 2,000.000 then it is easy to double that number. to get 4,000. 17% for example is 1.7 x 10% in this case 1.7 x 2,000 = 3,400
      - 2y ago

cmontella 2y ago

I teach at the university level, and I just expect more from my students. Instead of implementing data structures like we did when I was in school, something ChatGPT is very good at; my students are building systems, something ChatGPT has more trouble with. Instead of paper exams asking students "find the bug" or "implement a short function", they get a takehome exam where they have to write tests, integrate their project into a CI pipeline, use version control, and implement a dropbox-like system in Rust, which we expect to have a good deal of functionality and accompanying documentation. I tell them go ahead and use whatever they want. It's easier than policing their tools. If they can put it together, and it works, and they can explain it back to me, then I'm satisfied. Even if they use ChatGPT it'll take a great deal of work and knowledge to get running. If ChatGPT suddenly is able to put a project like that together, then I'll ask for even more.

bondarchuk 2y ago
Wouldn't it be unfair towards the students who want to learn without LLMs?
- idopmstuff 2y ago
  Why does that matter? LLMs are going to be increasingly important tools, so it's valuable for educators to help students understand how to use them well. If you choose to exclude modern tools in your teaching to avoid disadvantaging those who don't want to use them, you disadvantage all the students who do want to use them. To put it another way, modern high school level math classes disadvantage students who want to learn without using a calculator, but it would be quite odd to suggest that we should exclude calculators from math curricula as a result.
  - l33t7332273 2y ago
    Many high school classes are taught in such a way that your calculator rarely helps you.
    - skydhash 2y ago

Swizec 2y ago

> I'm really curious to see where higher education will go now that we have LLM's. I imagine the bar will just keep getting higher and more will be able to taught in less time On the other hand, 54% of US adults read and write at a 6th grade level or below. They will get absolutely left in the dust by all this. https://www.snopes.com/news/2022/08/02/us-literacy-rate/ https://www.snopes.com/news/2022/08/02/us-literacy-rate/

duderific 2y ago
They have already been left in the dust, even before LLMs, which explains a lot about our current political situation. Ironically, those who can work with their hands may be better positioned than "lightly" college educated persons; LLMs can't fix a car, build a house, or clear a clogged pipe.