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Wonder is acquiring Grubhub
- chirau 2y agoHow do these deals work? I am assuming, and I could be very wrong, that Wonder is smaller by market cap than Grubhub.
- mkl 2y agoWonder was valued at 3.5 billion USD in 2022: https://techcrunch.com/2022/06/17/marc-lores-food-delivery-startup-wonder-raises-350m-3-5b-valuation/ https://techcrunch.com/2022/06/17/marc-lores-food-delivery-s...
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- avrionov 2y agoBoth companies are not public. The investors need to agree on the price and the deal is done.
- kelnos 2y agoBoth companies are private, so neither has a "market cap". They just need to agree on a price. In this case, GrubHub had taken on a bunch of debt; Wonder agreed to assume it, and GrubHub's owners/investors get $150M in cash.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago> Both companies are private, so neither has a "market cap" Private companies have shares. Given a per-share price, you can get a market cap. For a company with debt, like GrubHub, enterprise value is a better metric.
- zemo 2y ago> Given a per-share price how do you know the per-share price
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago> how do you know the per-share price Same way you do for a public company. From trades and valuations. Private shares exchange hands in private transactions as well as almost every time the company raises money. If a company issues incentive stock options, they're required to calculate a 409A price, which while a bullshit number, is indeed a per-share price. Corporations, by law, have shares.
- zemo 2y ago> Same way you do for a public company. From trades and valuations. how do you know what trades took place, and how many shares were traded, and at what price?
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago> how do you know what trades took place, and how many shares were traded, and at what price? Company generally has these records. Various other sources, e.g. PitchBook, compile them. In some jurisdictions (e.g. UK and India) they have to be publicly announced, though that's becoming less common. TL; DR It is incredibly wrong to suggest private companies don't have a market cap. As in finance 101 wrong.
- zemo 2y ago> Same way you do for a public company. From trades and valuations. no, it's not the same, because the information is not publicly available. They are the same in that in both cases you multiply two numbers together; they are not the same inasmuch as your ability to know those numbers is vastly different. To say they're the same is misleading.
- woooooo 2y agoYou don't think lack of liquidity, small number of transactions etc casts some doubt on the "true value" of those shares? Did they really go from some big number to some small number in an eyeblink with this latest transaction?
- bsimpson 2y agoThose weird ghost kitchen things have more than half a billion dollars to spend on acquisitions?! I wonder how this came to be - did they already have that big of a war chest, or did they hear they could buy a name brand and go back to their investors to finance it?
- philip1209 2y agoGrubhub has revenue, which means they might be able to finance the acquisition with debt.
- Morac0o 2y ago[flagged]
- snarf21 2y agoI see this is as simply buying scale more quickly than they could grow organically.
- JumpCrisscross 2y agoI’ll look up the addresses of restaurants on Uber Eats, using street view, before ordering. Most of them are at bodegas or otherwise non-restaurant spaces.
- Gormo 2y agoI recently saw a new burger joint pop up on Uber Eats with an address not far from my home. It turned out to be the address of the last remaining Ruby Tuesday restaurant in my area, but the burger place did not advertise any connection to Ruby Tuesday. Seemed very sketchy to me.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- carabiner 2y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_restaurant https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_restaurant Also chuck e cheese, tgi fridays run these.
- jaymzcampbell 2y agoMentions the $650mln they'll pay Just Eat for it, neglects the fact Just Eat paid $7.3bln. Quite the write down. And in just 4 years.
- popcalc 2y agoWhere did all the money go?
- schmidtleonard 2y agoLowered expectations.
- Retric 2y agoEarlier investors. Ever hear of pump and dump? After you sell you’re insulated from future performance as long as you don’t commit actual fraud etc.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago> Earlier investors. Ever hear of pump and dump? When did GrubHub buy early investors' shares with company cash?
- Retric 2y agoEarly investors had already “sold” the company well before this transaction: https://about.grubhub.com/news/grubhub-stockholders-approve-transaction-with-just-eat-takeaway-com/ https://about.grubhub.com/news/grubhub-stockholders-approve-... It was an all stock transaction, so they maintained an indirect stake but it was significantly diluted: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just_Eat_Takeaway.com https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just_Eat_Takeaway.com Meanwhile Just Eat Takeaway investors got taken for a ride.
- lotsofpulp 2y agoThis does not seem like pump and dump: https://www.investopedia.com/terms/p/pumpanddump.asp https://www.investopedia.com/terms/p/pumpanddump.asp
- snarf21 2y agoAt first blush, this might seem like another silly roll-up. However, I believe in Marc Lore completely and it will be interesting to see what this becomes. This is bad news for DoorDash (imo).
- Centigonal 2y agoI could see a world where Doordash, Toast, etc specialize in delivery from existing restaurants, while Wonder/GrubHub lean into an exclusive selection of food from ghost kitchens.
- deprecative 2y agoTo be fair, DoorDash is bad news for DoorDash because a $8 meal costs $30.
- dools 2y agoAhhh a slice line
- JasserInicide 2y agoI mean, they're all like that, adding on 40% to the actual meal total.
- deprecative 2y agoY is the problem of Y. It's profiteering and exploitation.
- gnabgib 2y agoDiscussion (26 points, 3 hours ago, 63 comments) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42127304 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42127304
- crmd 2y agoSupport your local restaurants. Don’t let these vampire platform companies enshitify your city’s food scene.
- deprecative 2y agoWe say shopping at Whole Foods, Walmart, and Kroger.
- pkilgore 2y agoWhat point are you trying to make? Seems like a failure of government to enforce monopolization laws than individual consumers.
- deprecative 2y agoConsumers are voters.
- tomtheelder 2y agoLocal grocery stores have basically been extinct for decades- and realistically that isn't that surprising given they mostly sell commodity products. We don't need to let restaurants suffer the same fate.
- kelnos 2y agoAgreed. I'm super lucky in that we have a local independent grocery in our neighborhood. Prices are definitely a little higher than the big grocery chains, but the convenience of walking 2.5 blocks is hard to beat when I need something immediately (which turns out is fairly often).
- deprecative 2y agoRestaurants are by definition food commodification.
- pie420 2y agono, we don't. if we're not mindless little drones we stopped shopping there a long time ago, don't lump us in with yourself
- ChrisArchitect 2y ago[dupe] Some more discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42127304 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42127304
- hoppyhoppy2 2y ago[dupe "dupe" comment] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42129024 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42129024
- ChrisArchitect 2y agoDoes that say dupe? Just flagging it properly
- recursive 2y agoApparently Wonder is unrelated to Wonder Bread.
- Etheryte 2y agoAlso unrelated to Stevie Wonder.
- reaperducer 2y agoApparently Wonder is unrelated to Wonder Bread The deal was paid for with Wonder's bread.
- bayareacommie 2y ago[dead]
- sib 2y agoI wonder (no pun intended) how much of this is driven by Marc's residual dislike of Amazon? Amazon currently has a partnership with Grubhub to provide Grubhub delivery as a Prime benefit. Amazon competed strongly (some might say unfairly) many years ago with Marc's first big startup, Diapers.com, and effectively forced him to sell to Amazon. He later started Jet.com and sold it to Walmart - in many ways as a second chance to compete with Amazon.
- ahstilde 2y agomarc lore is underrated
- longtimelistnr 2y agoGhost kitchens are the biggest scam in the food delivery world. why would anyone pay for an unsanitary kitchen to fry them up some frozen food?
- kelnos 2y agoWho says they're unsanitary? Are they not subject to the same kinds of health inspections that regular restaurants have to go through?
- Jenk 2y agoIn the UK and EU they certainly are.
- longtimelistnr 2y agoIn they U.S. they are often converted shipping containers or poorly regulated rental kitchens
- Centigonal 2y agoI... don't think that's right? edit: I did some research. Ghost kitchens are generally inspected by federal or state authorities, but laws for inspection vary widely by state, and it can be difficult for customers to see or understand inspection results. E.g. You go to a restaurant and see the health grade in the window, but when you order from an online vendor who shares the same kitchen with 5 other vendors, it's very hard to trace the food your getting to the kitchen it's being prepared in and the relevant inspection history. more here: https://www.theregreview.org/2021/01/13/verniero-paranormal-nature-ghost-kitchens/ https://www.theregreview.org/2021/01/13/verniero-paranormal-...
- KeplerBoy 2y agoa lot of fast food is frozen at some point. That's just how that industry works.
- thfuran 2y agoMany normal restaurants do a lot of heating up pre-prepared food as well.
- geor9e 2y agoThis part feels like The Onion. 30 private taxis coordinating for your meal. "customers can order from upwards of 30 restaurants in a single order, with each item being made-to-order in a sequenced fashion so that they finish simultaneously and can be delivered to the customer together."
- widgeyboy 2y agoAgree, I don't think that's going to work in practice.
- khy 2y agoA Wonder just opened near my house, and the "different restaurants" seem to really be just different sections of a large menu with distinct branding. I.e., there is a single physical kitchen that makes food from the different "restaurants".
- gkoberger 2y agoYeah, it's a cloud kitchen with a eating area. I don't think anyone thinks this is "innovation"... it's just a slightly different take on Uber Eats / Spoonrocket / food courts / cloud kitchens / etc. And if there is an "innovation", it's the vertical integration... it's a business "innovation," not a tech one.
- angellamae 2y ago[dead]
- pfdietz 2y agoThere are a bunch of "restaurants" in our town that are just different menus serviced at the same ghost/cloud/dark kitchen. The quality is generally not good. I wonder about the quality at Wonder -- the broader the menu, the harder it is for the preparers to get good at it.
- bunderbunder 2y agoI'm thinking here of an Indian place near my office that graduated from ghost kitchen to food hall restaurant. I had their food both before and after, and the difference was night and day. I actually didn't want to try the food hall version, based on my experience with their ghost kitchen incarnation. But a friend convinced me to give them another chance, and now they're one of my favorite places for when I want to splurge on lunch. I don't really know what the difference is, but I'm guessing it's that they didn't get to have a kitchen setup that was well adapted to their menu at the ghost kitchen.
- nemo44x 2y agoGrubhub has fallen so far it's amazing. They (and Seamless who is the same thing in different regions) had such a big start but had their model disrupted. And while they were being disrupted they were trying to turn a profit as a public company and DoorDash just ate their market as they were in growth mode. Interesting sequence of events that led to them being acquired by Wonder.
- afavour 2y agoSilly money, behaving stupidly. I feel for the restaurant owners: not only were they forced into accepting the likes of Grubhub as a middle man, that same middleman now also owns restaurants that compete directly with them. If the restaurants have any power at all they should stop using Grubhub right now. I don’t know anyone still using it (which is crazy, Seamless used to dominate NYC). I sincerely hope the entire thing burns to the ground. The last thing I need in my life is for all the restaurants in my neighbourhood to be soulless, VC operated chains.
- hinkley 2y agoDelivery should be done as a coop between local businesses. Always should have been that way.
- duxup 2y agoRestaurant business is so risky anyhow, managing a co-op too sounds like a big extra load to take on.
- bunderbunder 2y agoSometimes I miss when delivery meant either Chinese or pizza, and the businesses were specialized in that kind of work. Which meant it didn't cost an arm and a leg, and the whole system was vertically integrated in a way that gave your food a fighting chance of still being hot by the time it arrived. Also the restaurants got a chance to teach their delivery staff how to properly handle the food. Which meant that the Chinese restaurants, for example, could get away with using oyster pails instead of having to resort to the "maximum packaging waste" option.
- timnetworks 2y agoI refuse to use GrubHub and not only because it makes a $12 sandwich into a $22 sandwich, but also because small business needs cash. If you're tipping $2.37 on your credit card, kick bricks.
- ihuman 2y ago
- objektif 2y agoWonder guy is a trader and I think this is a good trade. The question is who is he going to dump this whole thing to next?
- xyst 2y agoYet another company propped up by private equity. Wonder Group raised $700M during a funding round in March 2024, with a total of $1.5B raised overall [1] How long until it succumbs to the same fate as other PE funded companies (Foxtrot)? Then the people left holding the bag are the vendors that won’t get paid. Employees don’t get paid. Doors locked up one day with no reason. Love how it has all of these celebrity endorsements as well to keep the facade going. At the end of the day, it’s a glorified ghost kitchen. [1] https://www.inc.com/rebecca-deczynski/wonder-marc-lores-fast-fine-food-business-announces-a-700m-funding-round.html https://www.inc.com/rebecca-deczynski/wonder-marc-lores-fast...
- andrewla 2y agoWhat the heck is going on here? This feels very ZIRP-ey; private equity chasing disruption in the hopes of the next acquisition. Is this just a race to the bottom as all these delivery companies burn cash to subsidize their failing model and hope that they can be the last one standing?
- yawnxyz 2y agowhoa, they own Chai Pani and Fred's Meat and Bread, both of which are _excellent_ fast casual spots in Atlanta. It's just... it's like $28 for a Philly cheesesteak, so I've only been to each twice. edit: ok it's $16 each apparently, but still But also, they own physical chains, real estate ("food halls" aka bougie food courts) and now... meal delivery? It sounds like the most expensive-to-operate things all squashed into one. edit: and they own Blue Apron?! I feel like they're going to buy Candy Crush next It's really hard to see how this is going to work out long-term.
- bastardoperator 2y agoAcquisition of Farming Simulator incoming...
- kridsdale1 2y agoMicrosoft bought Candy Crush for $75 billion.
- kridsdale1 2y agoMeat and Bread is in Seattle and Vancouver too, and yes, it’s fantastic lunch.
- cbowal 2y agoLooks like it's "Fred's Meat and Bread" which is different than the Meet & Bread chain in Vancouver, Calgary, and Austin.
- maronato 2y agoI don’t think they necessarily own the restaurants. They license the menu and cook/sell from a ghost kitchen.
- pbamotra 2y agoWonder owns Blue Apron too.
- graypegg 2y ago> [Wonder is] creating the super app for mealtime [...] re-envisioning the future of food delivery [...] pioneering a new category of “Fast Fine” dining. Press release copywriting is such an artform in ways I'm sure they don't intend for. I don't think I could spin "ghost kitchen ordering app" into that much bullshit. That takes real skill.
- tamade 2y ago"new kind of food hall" sounds much better than ghost kitchen