4 ms·

Call it like it is: TSLA rise is not due to performance, but hope for corruption

22 points by peutetre 2y ago

xiphias2 2y ago
Electrec itself got corrupted a few years ago. It was far the best web page for news about electric vehicles going into details, but it was probably bought and now it's just ragebait.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
navaed01 2y ago
The article is too dismissive of Chinese cheap EVs as a threat to Tesla and how tariffs might help Tesla. Having said that it’s a good take, but after seeing how arbitrarily stocks rose in ‘21 I’m not too sure that rallies of household stocks are nothing more than emotional bets without any real strategy
- piva00 2y ago
  At least in 2021 there was the huge influx of cash from many central banks due to COVID measures, a lot of it was absorbed into the assets market. This time the only 2 things matching the timing of TSLA rising the past month are: quarter earnings report around Oct 23rd which stabilised as expected during the week and a big up trend starting on... Nov 6th.
gigatexal 2y ago
You say corruption. Elon and Trump would say business acumen. Though if green offsets and credits from the feds are curbed it’ll hurt Elon no? I guess he will get a carve out.
- verzali 2y ago
  Just ditch green credits and call it the "American Freedom Enterprise Credit" for buying Tesla cars. Government money siphoned into Elon's pockets.
  - ivewonyoung 2y ago
    The current admin was very close to excluding Tesla by applying EV credits to only union companies, would be interesting to see if the next admin can use some loophole to prefer Tesla.
    - gigatexal 2y ago
      I wonder if an enterprising law firm could sue the govt then saying such a law discriminates against unions or somehow harms them in some way. Moot point though as the SC is in Trump’s pocket.
- jmclnx 2y ago
  It could also be said, the Tariffs Trump wants to put on China's EVs could be looked at paying Musk back for this $45 million monthly donations he made to Trump's election. With Citizens United, the billionaires do not even bother hiding which politicians they are buying anymore.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
- fuzzfactor 2y ago
  Well, back in South Florida, Trump was recognized as a bad cheater by the local golfing community of mature gentlemen before he was age 30. And it only got worse, he then proved to be dishonest by nature and completely untrustworthy in a business deal. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that's always been the way to make the most money if you're willing to be like that and can get away with it. Maybe Musk just wants a piece of the action, because it could very well be getting like that on steroids this time.
- JohnFen 2y ago
  > You say corruption. Elon and Trump would say business acumen. Well, sure, because they're both con men.
huijzer 2y ago
I could make a counterargument that at least Elon and Trump are making it clear that they are teaming up. There are probably countless other big companies that are much more secretive about their collaborations.
- jmye 2y ago
  “Actually corruption is good if it’s brazen” is a spectacularly lame take.
  - huijzer 2y ago
    That's not what I said. I said visible corruption is less bad than invisible corruption.
znpy 2y ago
Most stock prices are pure imagination. TLSA rise is no different. I still remember a few years ago when GameStop stocks were nosediving just because some WallStreet bro had decided to bet against it. It was all fine until some unheard guy from reddit looked at the actual numbers from the company and noticed the company was doing overall okay, decided to bet against the wallstreet bro, and many more non-wallstreet investors decided to follow suit. And the rest, as they say, is history. So yeah, TSLA stock price is fake, but that's not news. Most stock prices are. Heck, company can even legally inflate the stock price. It's not much time ago that Google did a huge stock buy back to artificially increase the stock price.
- TheAlchemist 2y ago
  That's a very biased view of the reality. There are lows and highs, but in the long term - stock price roughly follow (or anticipate sometimes) the underlying business. GameStop is a totally unsignificant, albeit very publicized, stock. Btw, it was nosediving not because some Wall Street bro had decided to bet against but ... because it has become a really shitty business. It sill is. If you take all companies in the S&P 500, with some irrationnal exceptions (hey Tesla...), you will find that most prices x nb shares available, correlate very closely with the underlying company's profit and revenues.
  - FreakLegion 2y ago
    S&P 500 company P/E ratios range from something like 2 to 500+, not counting the NaNs. You're right that in the aggregate things aren't particularly crazy, and it's definitely not true that "most stock prices are pure imagination", but there are still a lot of pretty imaginary stock prices (hello, CrowdStrike)!
  - znpy 2y ago
    > GameStop is a totally unsignificant, albeit very publicized, stock. Btw, it was nosediving not because some Wall Street bro had decided to bet against but ... because it has become a really shitty business. It sill is. GameStop is the only one that rose to in the news because of /r/WallStreetBets. You should wonder how many other companies are in a similar (if not the same) situation.

22 points by peutetre 2y ago

Electrec itself got corrupted a few years ago. It was far the best web page for news about electric vehicles going into details, but it was probably bought and now it's just ragebait.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

navaed01 2y ago

The article is too dismissive of Chinese cheap EVs as a threat to Tesla and how tariffs might help Tesla. Having said that it’s a good take, but after seeing how arbitrarily stocks rose in ‘21 I’m not too sure that rallies of household stocks are nothing more than emotional bets without any real strategy

piva00 2y ago
At least in 2021 there was the huge influx of cash from many central banks due to COVID measures, a lot of it was absorbed into the assets market. This time the only 2 things matching the timing of TSLA rising the past month are: quarter earnings report around Oct 23rd which stabilised as expected during the week and a big up trend starting on... Nov 6th.

gigatexal 2y ago

You say corruption. Elon and Trump would say business acumen. Though if green offsets and credits from the feds are curbed it’ll hurt Elon no? I guess he will get a carve out.

verzali 2y ago
Just ditch green credits and call it the "American Freedom Enterprise Credit" for buying Tesla cars. Government money siphoned into Elon's pockets.
- ivewonyoung 2y ago
  The current admin was very close to excluding Tesla by applying EV credits to only union companies, would be interesting to see if the next admin can use some loophole to prefer Tesla.
  - gigatexal 2y ago
    I wonder if an enterprising law firm could sue the govt then saying such a law discriminates against unions or somehow harms them in some way. Moot point though as the SC is in Trump’s pocket.
jmclnx 2y ago
It could also be said, the Tariffs Trump wants to put on China's EVs could be looked at paying Musk back for this $45 million monthly donations he made to Trump's election. With Citizens United, the billionaires do not even bother hiding which politicians they are buying anymore.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
fuzzfactor 2y ago
Well, back in South Florida, Trump was recognized as a bad cheater by the local golfing community of mature gentlemen before he was age 30. And it only got worse, he then proved to be dishonest by nature and completely untrustworthy in a business deal. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that's always been the way to make the most money if you're willing to be like that and can get away with it. Maybe Musk just wants a piece of the action, because it could very well be getting like that on steroids this time.
JohnFen 2y ago
> You say corruption. Elon and Trump would say business acumen. Well, sure, because they're both con men.

huijzer 2y ago

I could make a counterargument that at least Elon and Trump are making it clear that they are teaming up. There are probably countless other big companies that are much more secretive about their collaborations.

jmye 2y ago
“Actually corruption is good if it’s brazen” is a spectacularly lame take.
- huijzer 2y ago
  That's not what I said. I said visible corruption is less bad than invisible corruption.

znpy 2y ago

Most stock prices are pure imagination. TLSA rise is no different. I still remember a few years ago when GameStop stocks were nosediving just because some WallStreet bro had decided to bet against it. It was all fine until some unheard guy from reddit looked at the actual numbers from the company and noticed the company was doing overall okay, decided to bet against the wallstreet bro, and many more non-wallstreet investors decided to follow suit. And the rest, as they say, is history. So yeah, TSLA stock price is fake, but that's not news. Most stock prices are. Heck, company can even legally inflate the stock price. It's not much time ago that Google did a huge stock buy back to artificially increase the stock price.

TheAlchemist 2y ago
That's a very biased view of the reality. There are lows and highs, but in the long term - stock price roughly follow (or anticipate sometimes) the underlying business. GameStop is a totally unsignificant, albeit very publicized, stock. Btw, it was nosediving not because some Wall Street bro had decided to bet against but ... because it has become a really shitty business. It sill is. If you take all companies in the S&P 500, with some irrationnal exceptions (hey Tesla...), you will find that most prices x nb shares available, correlate very closely with the underlying company's profit and revenues.
- FreakLegion 2y ago
  S&P 500 company P/E ratios range from something like 2 to 500+, not counting the NaNs. You're right that in the aggregate things aren't particularly crazy, and it's definitely not true that "most stock prices are pure imagination", but there are still a lot of pretty imaginary stock prices (hello, CrowdStrike)!
- znpy 2y ago
  > GameStop is a totally unsignificant, albeit very publicized, stock. Btw, it was nosediving not because some Wall Street bro had decided to bet against but ... because it has become a really shitty business. It sill is. GameStop is the only one that rose to in the news because of /r/WallStreetBets. You should wonder how many other companies are in a similar (if not the same) situation.