5 ms·

The problem extends beyond financing. As even the article says, successful companies like Shopify are able to raise $$$ from the US. It's also a scale problem.

by saeidm 14y ago

The problem extends beyond financing. As even the article says, successful companies like Shopify are able to raise $$$ from the US. It's also a scale problem. Canada has has, by my count, four micro tech scenes (Waterloo, Vancouver, Toronto, Ottawa). In a Country with such a small population, there really still isn't a "hub" for tech. With talent so dispersed (and much of it moving to the US as it is), it's hard to get talent for good ideas in one place.

jaems33 14y ago
Indeed. Big companies like Microsoft and Google tend to snatch a good portion of highly skilled engineers, while most designers (product and visual) tend to head towards New York City or San Francisco for better growth and money.
- dkubb 14y ago
  IME the remaining skilled engineers want to work remotely. The last 8 years I've worked almost exclusively for US based businesses as a remote contractor. It's the best of both worlds, I can charge competitive rates but have a relatively overall lower cost of living and access to free healthcare. Taxes are higher in Canada, but it works out that I'm way ahead than if I lived in SF or NY. The downside is that I occasionally do miss the one-on-one interaction I get with team. It helps that I've begin working for a co-op, and I'm often working as a team with the same devs on new client projects. I also do lots of oss work, which helps me keep my skills up by working on challenging projects as part of a community.
  - CountHackulus 14y ago
    That's interesting, I've always wanted to do something like that and never really figured out how. Mind giving details? Or if you'd rather not do it here, just send me an email, it's my username at gmail.
    - dkubb 14y ago
      I don't mind talking about it here. I've worked solo for a number of years after leaving a stable full time job. I did a lot of open source work and through the community I've come in contact with a group of devs who work together on client projects. The people running the coop are responsible for finding us the new contracts, and they add something on top while I get to charge decent rates. I know I could probably market myself and earn the same thing without the middleman, but I don't have to worry about keeping the pipeline full, billing, negotiations, etc.. having someone else handle that frees me up to focus on development. The nice thing about this arrangement is that since we're a team we can work on larger projects than I would otherwise be able to bid on myself. Instead of having to juggle 5 or 10 projects to fill all my billable hours in a month, I can easily do it with just a couple. I'm also able to go much deeper and work on 6-12 month contracts, rather than doing short, trivial projects.
  - devb0x 14y ago
    Very interesting.. I've often though about doing this from South Africa. How did you get into doing work remotely?
- CoolGuySteve 14y ago
  True, when I graduated Waterloo CS in 2007, I remember a sizable portion of the coop board postings were from Google, MS, and RIM, about 20-40 postings each most terms. The pay in Silicon Valley was maybe 25-50% higher than Toronto/Montreal/Waterloo and the weather didn't suck. It would be interesting to see a breakdown from Waterloo of how many postings are in the US vs Canada and how large the companies are. Sort of like a litmus test for the tech scene there. I'm also surprised at the lack of news from the Waterloo incubator, especially on this site.
  - potatolicious 14y ago
    > "The pay in Silicon Valley was maybe 25-50% higher than Toronto/Montreal/Waterloo and the weather didn't suck." I live in SF currently, and recently accepted another job in NYC. Apples to apples, the pay in SF/SV is easily 100% higher than Toronto right now. The gap is even higher in NYC (150%+), though of course, cost of living is going to eat up most of that. With the bubble heating up even more right now, I know people who are picking up comp packages 200%+ higher than the going rate in Canada. There is simply no reason to go back - critical mass of talented, dedicated people. Interesting work. Ludicrous sums of money.
    - jaems33 14y ago
      "There is simply no reason to go back - critical mass of talented, dedicated people. Interesting work. Ludicrous sums of money." For a while, I had trouble working because of health issues so I decided to work part-time while getting medicated and going through physio. Much harder to do that in the U.S. without a sort of group insurance. The cost of subscribing to an individual plan with my condition would probably be through the roof. However, because of socialized medicine in Canada, I had far less financial pressure on myself as my medicine and visits were obviously covered.
      - natrius 14y ago
        Once 2014 comes around, that won't be an issue in the U.S. anymore.
burke 14y ago
the NAFTA really does a number on us (Canada) here in making it so easy to work in the States on TN status. I went to university a few years ago with a small group of 3 other pretty bright programmer friends. It turns out it's hard to find an excellent job in Canada. Though I'm now working for Shopify, which appears to be the only really great option for me here, the other three of them have recently moved to New York, the Valley, and North Carolina. The problem with the tech scene in Canada is a chicken and egg one. We need good companies to prevent skilled tech workers from moving to the States, but we need skilled workers to build good companies. Moving to a Canadian startup hub, if one is ever designated, is not significantly easier for most people than moving to the Valley.
- eropple 14y ago
  For me, it's the other way 'round. I'm an American (barely; I'm from Maine and talk like a Canadian) who'd love to move to Ottawa or Toronto, but there's not a hell of a lot up there.
  - Cyranix 14y ago
    Out west in the Vancouver area, I hear talk of many companies trying to band together to promote the tech sector, in an effort to turn things around. But as for right now, I agree that it's pretty bleak. I do see quite a number of nice job postings for Toronto, but not much elsewhere. (I'm an American who has managed to land a software dev job not even in Vancouver but in Victoria, which has a very limited scene outside of AbeBooks.)

by saeidm 14y ago

jaems33 14y ago

Indeed. Big companies like Microsoft and Google tend to snatch a good portion of highly skilled engineers, while most designers (product and visual) tend to head towards New York City or San Francisco for better growth and money.

dkubb 14y ago
IME the remaining skilled engineers want to work remotely. The last 8 years I've worked almost exclusively for US based businesses as a remote contractor. It's the best of both worlds, I can charge competitive rates but have a relatively overall lower cost of living and access to free healthcare. Taxes are higher in Canada, but it works out that I'm way ahead than if I lived in SF or NY. The downside is that I occasionally do miss the one-on-one interaction I get with team. It helps that I've begin working for a co-op, and I'm often working as a team with the same devs on new client projects. I also do lots of oss work, which helps me keep my skills up by working on challenging projects as part of a community.
- CountHackulus 14y ago
  That's interesting, I've always wanted to do something like that and never really figured out how. Mind giving details? Or if you'd rather not do it here, just send me an email, it's my username at gmail.
  - dkubb 14y ago
    I don't mind talking about it here. I've worked solo for a number of years after leaving a stable full time job. I did a lot of open source work and through the community I've come in contact with a group of devs who work together on client projects. The people running the coop are responsible for finding us the new contracts, and they add something on top while I get to charge decent rates. I know I could probably market myself and earn the same thing without the middleman, but I don't have to worry about keeping the pipeline full, billing, negotiations, etc.. having someone else handle that frees me up to focus on development. The nice thing about this arrangement is that since we're a team we can work on larger projects than I would otherwise be able to bid on myself. Instead of having to juggle 5 or 10 projects to fill all my billable hours in a month, I can easily do it with just a couple. I'm also able to go much deeper and work on 6-12 month contracts, rather than doing short, trivial projects.
- devb0x 14y ago
  Very interesting.. I've often though about doing this from South Africa. How did you get into doing work remotely?
CoolGuySteve 14y ago
True, when I graduated Waterloo CS in 2007, I remember a sizable portion of the coop board postings were from Google, MS, and RIM, about 20-40 postings each most terms. The pay in Silicon Valley was maybe 25-50% higher than Toronto/Montreal/Waterloo and the weather didn't suck. It would be interesting to see a breakdown from Waterloo of how many postings are in the US vs Canada and how large the companies are. Sort of like a litmus test for the tech scene there. I'm also surprised at the lack of news from the Waterloo incubator, especially on this site.
- potatolicious 14y ago
  > "The pay in Silicon Valley was maybe 25-50% higher than Toronto/Montreal/Waterloo and the weather didn't suck." I live in SF currently, and recently accepted another job in NYC. Apples to apples, the pay in SF/SV is easily 100% higher than Toronto right now. The gap is even higher in NYC (150%+), though of course, cost of living is going to eat up most of that. With the bubble heating up even more right now, I know people who are picking up comp packages 200%+ higher than the going rate in Canada. There is simply no reason to go back - critical mass of talented, dedicated people. Interesting work. Ludicrous sums of money.
  - jaems33 14y ago
    "There is simply no reason to go back - critical mass of talented, dedicated people. Interesting work. Ludicrous sums of money." For a while, I had trouble working because of health issues so I decided to work part-time while getting medicated and going through physio. Much harder to do that in the U.S. without a sort of group insurance. The cost of subscribing to an individual plan with my condition would probably be through the roof. However, because of socialized medicine in Canada, I had far less financial pressure on myself as my medicine and visits were obviously covered.
    - natrius 14y ago
      Once 2014 comes around, that won't be an issue in the U.S. anymore.

burke 14y ago

the NAFTA really does a number on us (Canada) here in making it so easy to work in the States on TN status. I went to university a few years ago with a small group of 3 other pretty bright programmer friends. It turns out it's hard to find an excellent job in Canada. Though I'm now working for Shopify, which appears to be the only really great option for me here, the other three of them have recently moved to New York, the Valley, and North Carolina. The problem with the tech scene in Canada is a chicken and egg one. We need good companies to prevent skilled tech workers from moving to the States, but we need skilled workers to build good companies. Moving to a Canadian startup hub, if one is ever designated, is not significantly easier for most people than moving to the Valley.

eropple 14y ago
For me, it's the other way 'round. I'm an American (barely; I'm from Maine and talk like a Canadian) who'd love to move to Ottawa or Toronto, but there's not a hell of a lot up there.
- Cyranix 14y ago
  Out west in the Vancouver area, I hear talk of many companies trying to band together to promote the tech sector, in an effort to turn things around. But as for right now, I agree that it's pretty bleak. I do see quite a number of nice job postings for Toronto, but not much elsewhere. (I'm an American who has managed to land a software dev job not even in Vancouver but in Victoria, which has a very limited scene outside of AbeBooks.)