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I am Russian, and the grandparent comment rings very true to me. To me, personally, it reads less like snark and more like just a pretty existential comment on

I am Russian, and the grandparent comment rings very true to me. To me, personally, it reads less like snark and more like just a pretty existential comment on banality of how dynamics like this seem to have been always so prevalent in Russian culture.

wruza 2y ago
I see it as a self-sustaining stereotype only prevalent in what people tend to read. Who wants to read about a normal life of a normal russian, frankly? It’s likely not a snark, but it is nothing more than just a complex sort of klukva^ either. Subj is a completely non-standard story of a single person from early 20th century. You can find similar hopelessness in London, Hemingway, Le Guin. The prevalent dynamics in Russian culture is that you get education, skip draft, go to work, have kids, buy some things and die from bad healthcare at 60-70. Pretty normal shit that is too boring for a narrow-font-magazine headline. Personally it doesn’t offend me, but it’s just cringe(?) most of the time. Off, odd, klukva. Nothing rings true to me in this subthread, which is just a pile of stereotypes. I think that these “and american, but american” comments come from the fact that people can and get tired of it but cannot express it clearly. ^ en: cranberry, an absurd stereotype about russians
- ashoeafoot 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - moktonar 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - tim333 2y ago
      They didn't expand a war to the east, they expanded democracy, human rights and a defensive alliance to the east.
      - grugagag 2y ago
        That’s an existential threat to Russia. If Ukraine succesfully made a change more Russian sattelites would get the idea that it’s possible to escape the Russian grip. Second is the power projection on the Black Sea Russia was set to lose.
        tim333 2y ago
        Well, more an existential threat to the current regime running the place. I imagine the Russian people would be quite happy to have a regular democracy. Which is one reason Putin isn't very keen on one in Ukraine.
        selivanovp 2y ago
        Ukraine never had any glimpse of regular democracy. For 30 years it was just a state when one or the other oligarchical clan was able to install its puppet on the throne to decide who's looting the majority of profits in their pockets. Right now Zelensky totally usurped power, his political opponents were either killed of forced to flee the country, total mass media control installed, everyone who tried to argue were raided and taken under control or had to flee the country, religion rights are taken away, churches are raided and the right people are getting installed. Borders are crossed and mined, everyone who's trying to flee the country are getting hunted and killed if there's no way to catch them to send in trenches. Russian language, that is the mother tongue for 80% of population and Zelensky himself is forbidden in schools, and any other public services. We have a classic case of nationalists dictatorship being installed and turned the country in the same shit hole that Germany became in the late 1930's with storm troops having population under control by force. That's why Putin isn't very keen on what's going on in Ukraine.
        2y ago
    - ethanwillis 2y ago
      [flagged]
      - ben_w 2y ago
        > Especially when you can't project your military power a few hundred km over your own border. Quite a lot of western commentators were just as surprised as Putin to discover that Putin commanded a force that managed to lose its own tanks to local farmers. The difference is we got out the popcorn, and he got filmed anxiously gripping his own desk for 12 minutes. Since then Putin has put his country into a war economy, and now it is a war of attrition because Ukraine is given just enough support to not lose but not enough to win either — Biden is both afraid of Russia winning and also of Russia escalating it if they lose too hard. This war will go on until the west gets tired of supporting Ukraine or decides that escalation is a risk they're willing to take or Russia collapses under the weight of the war economy or Ukraine develops nukes; but I don't mean "the USA" when I say "the west" despite the fact that most current support comes from the USA, as many European countries have been building up their militaries both in reaction to what Putin did and in anticipation of Trump taking the US out of NATO.
        moktonar 2y ago
        You base your logic on the assumption the Putin will never use the nukes. Funny because the USA is the _only_ country that used nuke until now.
        ben_w 2y ago
        I count that under "decides that escalation is a risk they're willing to take". We can all see the claims and threats made by the Russian government, we know they want us to fear their nukes, that's why the US government has been concerned about escalation. I personally think there's a 75% they can't use any of their nukes and a 92% they can't use a strategically decisive number of nukes. But I'm doing armchair analysis here, and even if I wasn't those odds are only sufficient for me privately to not worry, they're not enough for a government to not plan for the worst. I'd be more worried if the US was more hawkish and cavalier about this.
    - libertine 2y ago
      What war has the West tried to expand east are you referring to? Or you're just going to ignore the fact that former soviet states only started to ask to join NATO after Russia restarted invading its neighbors?
      - selivanovp 2y ago
        [flagged]
        libertine 2y ago
        Please do correct me: the wars in Georgia, Moldova, and Chechnya never happened? 1991–1993 - Georgian Civil War / 1991–1992 - South Ossetian War / 1992–1993 - War in Abkhazia / 1992 - Transnistria War / 1999 - War of Dagestan / ... so conflicts where Russia occupied territory, shouldn't be of concern to any former Soviet states? You don't think played a role in the decision to defend themselves from a neighbour known for their invasions and genocide? The writing was on the wall: 2008 - Georgia / 2014 - Ukraine / 2022 - Ukraine Who's next, Khazkstan will need to be identified? How are my "facts" factually wrong?
      - moktonar 2y ago
        Or maybe it was the other way around? Exactly like in Ukraine? Who knows… If NATO is not against Russia then why Russia is the only “soviet” state that NATO refused to accept? Divide Russia in many equivalent regions: how many of them can join NATO before NATO refuses to let them join? Or is it that only regions that are not under filo-Putin leaders’ control are accepted?
        ethanwillis 2y ago
        Russia never applied. The USSR did 3 quarter of a century ago and was denied. Russia asked when it would be asked to join. It doesn't work like that. Show us where Russia applied to join NATO and got rejected.
        moktonar 2y ago
  - ZoomZoomZoom 2y ago
    Could you please remind me of historical cases the civil society prevented their rulers waging a war? Also, "society danced in the streets", uh-huh, right. Typical Russian wants the usual things even now: mostly economical stability and being left alone. Not so far from "western dreams".
    - lukan 2y ago
      "Could you please remind me of historical cases the civil society prevented their rulers waging a war?" History is a big book, but what I personally witnessed, were the peace demonstrations in France and Germany against the invasion Iraq and in the end we did not take part in that war. And the Vietnam war was largley stopped because of the civil unrest and demonstrations back at home. More about democracies, sure, but even dictators have to mind the masses.
- dvfjsdhgfv 2y ago
  I see your point but my Russian teacher had taught me exactly the same. She made me watch Skazka Skazok which won many awards (and I loved it btw) and read stories that also had this feeling. I'm happy that today Russia is not the same as before and there is also hope in people's lives, not only sadness. Or so it seems.

wruza 2y ago

I see it as a self-sustaining stereotype only prevalent in what people tend to read. Who wants to read about a normal life of a normal russian, frankly? It’s likely not a snark, but it is nothing more than just a complex sort of klukva^ either. Subj is a completely non-standard story of a single person from early 20th century. You can find similar hopelessness in London, Hemingway, Le Guin. The prevalent dynamics in Russian culture is that you get education, skip draft, go to work, have kids, buy some things and die from bad healthcare at 60-70. Pretty normal shit that is too boring for a narrow-font-magazine headline. Personally it doesn’t offend me, but it’s just cringe(?) most of the time. Off, odd, klukva. Nothing rings true to me in this subthread, which is just a pile of stereotypes. I think that these “and american, but american” comments come from the fact that people can and get tired of it but cannot express it clearly. ^ en: cranberry, an absurd stereotype about russians

ashoeafoot 2y ago
[flagged]
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- moktonar 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - tim333 2y ago
    They didn't expand a war to the east, they expanded democracy, human rights and a defensive alliance to the east.
    - grugagag 2y ago
      That’s an existential threat to Russia. If Ukraine succesfully made a change more Russian sattelites would get the idea that it’s possible to escape the Russian grip. Second is the power projection on the Black Sea Russia was set to lose.
      - tim333 2y ago
        Well, more an existential threat to the current regime running the place. I imagine the Russian people would be quite happy to have a regular democracy. Which is one reason Putin isn't very keen on one in Ukraine.
        selivanovp 2y ago
        Ukraine never had any glimpse of regular democracy. For 30 years it was just a state when one or the other oligarchical clan was able to install its puppet on the throne to decide who's looting the majority of profits in their pockets. Right now Zelensky totally usurped power, his political opponents were either killed of forced to flee the country, total mass media control installed, everyone who tried to argue were raided and taken under control or had to flee the country, religion rights are taken away, churches are raided and the right people are getting installed. Borders are crossed and mined, everyone who's trying to flee the country are getting hunted and killed if there's no way to catch them to send in trenches. Russian language, that is the mother tongue for 80% of population and Zelensky himself is forbidden in schools, and any other public services. We have a classic case of nationalists dictatorship being installed and turned the country in the same shit hole that Germany became in the late 1930's with storm troops having population under control by force. That's why Putin isn't very keen on what's going on in Ukraine.
        2y ago
  - ethanwillis 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - ben_w 2y ago
      > Especially when you can't project your military power a few hundred km over your own border. Quite a lot of western commentators were just as surprised as Putin to discover that Putin commanded a force that managed to lose its own tanks to local farmers. The difference is we got out the popcorn, and he got filmed anxiously gripping his own desk for 12 minutes. Since then Putin has put his country into a war economy, and now it is a war of attrition because Ukraine is given just enough support to not lose but not enough to win either — Biden is both afraid of Russia winning and also of Russia escalating it if they lose too hard. This war will go on until the west gets tired of supporting Ukraine or decides that escalation is a risk they're willing to take or Russia collapses under the weight of the war economy or Ukraine develops nukes; but I don't mean "the USA" when I say "the west" despite the fact that most current support comes from the USA, as many European countries have been building up their militaries both in reaction to what Putin did and in anticipation of Trump taking the US out of NATO.
      - moktonar 2y ago
        You base your logic on the assumption the Putin will never use the nukes. Funny because the USA is the _only_ country that used nuke until now.
        ben_w 2y ago
        I count that under "decides that escalation is a risk they're willing to take". We can all see the claims and threats made by the Russian government, we know they want us to fear their nukes, that's why the US government has been concerned about escalation. I personally think there's a 75% they can't use any of their nukes and a 92% they can't use a strategically decisive number of nukes. But I'm doing armchair analysis here, and even if I wasn't those odds are only sufficient for me privately to not worry, they're not enough for a government to not plan for the worst. I'd be more worried if the US was more hawkish and cavalier about this.
  - libertine 2y ago
    What war has the West tried to expand east are you referring to? Or you're just going to ignore the fact that former soviet states only started to ask to join NATO after Russia restarted invading its neighbors?
    - selivanovp 2y ago
      [flagged]
      - libertine 2y ago
        Please do correct me: the wars in Georgia, Moldova, and Chechnya never happened? 1991–1993 - Georgian Civil War / 1991–1992 - South Ossetian War / 1992–1993 - War in Abkhazia / 1992 - Transnistria War / 1999 - War of Dagestan / ... so conflicts where Russia occupied territory, shouldn't be of concern to any former Soviet states? You don't think played a role in the decision to defend themselves from a neighbour known for their invasions and genocide? The writing was on the wall: 2008 - Georgia / 2014 - Ukraine / 2022 - Ukraine Who's next, Khazkstan will need to be identified? How are my "facts" factually wrong?
    - moktonar 2y ago
      Or maybe it was the other way around? Exactly like in Ukraine? Who knows… If NATO is not against Russia then why Russia is the only “soviet” state that NATO refused to accept? Divide Russia in many equivalent regions: how many of them can join NATO before NATO refuses to let them join? Or is it that only regions that are not under filo-Putin leaders’ control are accepted?
      - ethanwillis 2y ago
        Russia never applied. The USSR did 3 quarter of a century ago and was denied. Russia asked when it would be asked to join. It doesn't work like that. Show us where Russia applied to join NATO and got rejected.
        moktonar 2y ago
- ZoomZoomZoom 2y ago
  Could you please remind me of historical cases the civil society prevented their rulers waging a war? Also, "society danced in the streets", uh-huh, right. Typical Russian wants the usual things even now: mostly economical stability and being left alone. Not so far from "western dreams".
  - lukan 2y ago
    "Could you please remind me of historical cases the civil society prevented their rulers waging a war?" History is a big book, but what I personally witnessed, were the peace demonstrations in France and Germany against the invasion Iraq and in the end we did not take part in that war. And the Vietnam war was largley stopped because of the civil unrest and demonstrations back at home. More about democracies, sure, but even dictators have to mind the masses.
dvfjsdhgfv 2y ago
I see your point but my Russian teacher had taught me exactly the same. She made me watch Skazka Skazok which won many awards (and I loved it btw) and read stories that also had this feeling. I'm happy that today Russia is not the same as before and there is also hope in people's lives, not only sadness. Or so it seems.