5 ms·

The Mac mini M4 performance is around 4-5x in DaVinci Resolve for me - compared to my HP laptop (i5-1135G7). Rendering HDR video was around 12fps there on the

by dansky 2y ago

The Mac mini M4 performance is around 4-5x in DaVinci Resolve for me - compared to my HP laptop (i5-1135G7). Rendering HDR video was around 12fps there on the i5 - the same project in the Mac mini gets 60fps. The M4 10 core GPU seems on par or better with a mobile RTX3060(65W) for video tests (NR / Deflicker) so I'm also impressed about the M4's efficiency. A lot of power per Watt. It's becoming a dedicated video rendering machine for me where all the SMB auto mounting issues with macOS seem solvable. Pretty happy so far with the base model price even in the EU. The power button placement is an annoyance for me, though.

baq 2y ago
> The power button placement is an annoyance for me, though. Keep the thing upside down. Not joking.
- nielsbot 2y ago
  Feel like that risks overheating...
  - Retr0id 2y ago
    Not really. Unlike previous mac mini models, the grille on the underside is both the air intake and exhaust. If anything it ought to be better upside-down, since convection now helps the heated air rise out. Edit: any downvoters care to elaborate?
    - _2d30 2y ago
      The case is also going to radiate heat and turning it upside down will make that less efficient. The base won't radiate heat in the same due to being plastic and due to it already being used to pass air through.
      - deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
      - Retr0id 2y ago
        The case isn't thermally connected to the SoC in any direct way, so while I'm sure it does radiate some heat, I think it's pretty negligible. The PSU sits at the "top" (in regular orientation), and I don't think it runs much of a risk of overheating.
    - trashtester 2y ago
      It would make it fill up with dust, even while idle. Also, and fluid spill would be much more likely to cause damage. The normal orientation is fine for most people who want things to be as simple as possible (ie, most Mac users). There is very little reason to ever turn it off. If you still do that frequently for some reason, just leave it in a locatino where the button is still easy to access.
- va1a 2y ago
  Yeah it seems like this would also increase airflow. Is there any possible issue with just having it upside down all the time?
  - znpy 2y ago
    > Is there any possible issue with just having it upside down all the time? You might scratch the top, maybe? Nothing that a small piece of cloth wouldn't prevent, anyway.
  - Izikiel43 2y ago
    Isn't the case the heat sink? It might dissipate heat worst when lying upside down, as the table would get hot.
- justinclift 2y ago
  > Keep the thing upside down. Or maybe on its side? :)
  - GeekyBear 2y ago
    Someone has already released a design you can 3d print that mounts the Mini on its side and makes it resemble the cheese grater Mac Pro. > 3D-printed Mac Mini enclosure makes the tiny PC look like the world's cutest Mac Pro https://www.tomshardware.com/desktops/3d-printed-mac-mini-enclosure-makes-the-tiny-pc-look-like-the-worlds-cutest-mac-pro https://www.tomshardware.com/desktops/3d-printed-mac-mini-en...
- m4button 2y ago
  Well, you could try this solution, designed for people who’d like the flexibility of an on/off choice! https://m4button.com/ https://m4button.com/
leptons 2y ago
>The Mac mini M4 performance is around 4-5x in DaVinci Resolve for me - compared to my HP laptop (i5-1135G7). You could pick a variety of non Apple CPUs that easily deliver 4-5x the performance of an 11th gen i5. Maybe don't be disingenous and compare the M4 to a more recent CPU like i5-14600K, which is also 4x the performance. I'm not comparing on power efficiency, since that was not mentioned at all as part of your comment.
- matthew-wegner 2y ago
  Is it 4x the performance? Passmark shows 38,951 / 4,282 versus 24,724 / 4,555: https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Core+i5-14600K&id=5720 https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Core+i5-14600... https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Apple+M4+10+Core&id=6040 https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Apple+M4+10+Core&id... So i5-14600K is 1.57x on multi-core, slightly worse on single-core. $235 for the CPU versus $599 for a whole system. Could maybe match the total price, but Intel won't be able to come anywhere close on the power efficiency.
  - Rohansi 2y ago
    4x vs. the old i5, not the M4. They are trying to say that comparing to a CPU released four years ago is pointless because the newer CPU is obviously much better.
  - dansky 2y ago
    The 120GB/s memory bandwidth of the unified memory helps especially with video, I guess. The M4 CPU isn't really stressed out most of the time. Only multicam and HLG conversations it maxes out. Once I patched my old Dell T1650 BIOS for ReBAR support yet the iGPU of the i5 1135-g7 had similar GPU performance for video as the Intel Arc A380 in the desktop PC. The old PCIe3 speed limited its performance. I heard others reported a smoother replay experience with Apple silicon compared to even a RTX4090. I get some delays when fast scrubbing through a 9 multicam 720p timeline and just 360p proxies. Still impressed compared to what I was used to. Video editors may be surprised about the performance for the price.
mamp 2y ago
When do you turn it off? I have a Mac M1 Studio and I just let it sleep. If things get weird I reboot. I think I recall using the power button about a year ago after returning from vacation after I had shut it down.
- cchance 2y ago
  Like seriously WTF are people turning it off its 3 watts at idle lol, most power supplies have that much phantom drain lol
  - llm_nerd 2y ago
    Everyone keeps citing idle, which is when the device is on and active but not particularly doing anything. The standby power draw is 1W or less. I've used Mac Minis for years -- just replaced my M1 with an M4, though the M1 left me wanting for nothing -- and the number of times I've interacted with the power button is so negligible I imagine I've gone over a year without touching it. When I haven't touched it in a while it goes to standby, waking instantly when I engage it again.
  - sjoerger 2y ago
    Not everyone lives the same way. I am seriously considering a Mac Mini as my next upgrade yet I live in a RV and move frequently. Are there ways that I can keep the Mac mini powered while traveling.. sure, but why would/should I?
    - CrumpetDiagonal 2y ago
      Are you not turning off entire circuits to reduce power draw when mobile? I’m actually thinking about one of these for my truck camper and its power draw seems fine, but the stumbling point for me is the additional power draw from the monitor it would require. I think I’m leaning toward an M4 MBP with nano textured screen for maximum power efficiency and ability to work outside when it’s nice, though I have not yet put much effort into researching efficient monitors
    - deleted 2y ago
rwalle 2y ago
i5-1135G7 is from about 4 years ago. If you look at the latest offerings from Intel/AMD the gap should be fairly small.
ideashower 2y ago
Have you tried 8K video? How does each machine handle that?
- dansky 2y ago
  I just arranged a selection of 4K H.264/H.265 clips in a 2x2 grid on a 8K timeline in DaVinci Resolve. Playback works well - up to 60fps. However, export to H.265 creates a lot of Swap. Rendering went with 15-18fps. All videos on a SMB network drive but the GPU was the bottleneck for rendering. Swap was even around 24GB with 5 videos which I tested first. Using 4x4K it went 9 GB before stabilizing at around 2GB. No effects or grading whatsoever - plain 4K60 SDR videos. One single SDR 4K clip renders to 8K at 25fps. Using Superscale 2x makes that 0.5-1fps. For 8K rendering you may be better off with 32GB RAM minimum or trying the M4 Pro model maybe with 24GB. For 4K/6K editing the base 16/256 M4 Mac mini seems sufficient when all video storage will be on external drives or network. Edit: added single 4k->8K rendering performance
  - ideashower 2y ago
    thanks for checking! I think I'll get the M4 Pro and max out the RAM. I don't have the budget for whatever the future M4 Studio would look like, so this seems like a nice sweet spot.
    - dansky 2y ago
      I had a few OFX plugins and maybe had the browser running which may have impacted RAM. Depending on how much RAM you can keep free and the amount of grading on that 8K video you may be OK with the 24GB of the M4 Pro base model but yeah - more is always better though with Apple it's painful to add more of anything .. on a budget.

by dansky 2y ago

baq 2y ago

> The power button placement is an annoyance for me, though. Keep the thing upside down. Not joking.

nielsbot 2y ago
Feel like that risks overheating...
- Retr0id 2y ago
  Not really. Unlike previous mac mini models, the grille on the underside is both the air intake and exhaust. If anything it ought to be better upside-down, since convection now helps the heated air rise out. Edit: any downvoters care to elaborate?
  - _2d30 2y ago
    The case is also going to radiate heat and turning it upside down will make that less efficient. The base won't radiate heat in the same due to being plastic and due to it already being used to pass air through.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
    - Retr0id 2y ago
      The case isn't thermally connected to the SoC in any direct way, so while I'm sure it does radiate some heat, I think it's pretty negligible. The PSU sits at the "top" (in regular orientation), and I don't think it runs much of a risk of overheating.
  - trashtester 2y ago
    It would make it fill up with dust, even while idle. Also, and fluid spill would be much more likely to cause damage. The normal orientation is fine for most people who want things to be as simple as possible (ie, most Mac users). There is very little reason to ever turn it off. If you still do that frequently for some reason, just leave it in a locatino where the button is still easy to access.
va1a 2y ago
Yeah it seems like this would also increase airflow. Is there any possible issue with just having it upside down all the time?
- znpy 2y ago
  > Is there any possible issue with just having it upside down all the time? You might scratch the top, maybe? Nothing that a small piece of cloth wouldn't prevent, anyway.
- Izikiel43 2y ago
  Isn't the case the heat sink? It might dissipate heat worst when lying upside down, as the table would get hot.
justinclift 2y ago
> Keep the thing upside down. Or maybe on its side? :)
- GeekyBear 2y ago
  Someone has already released a design you can 3d print that mounts the Mini on its side and makes it resemble the cheese grater Mac Pro. > 3D-printed Mac Mini enclosure makes the tiny PC look like the world's cutest Mac Pro https://www.tomshardware.com/desktops/3d-printed-mac-mini-enclosure-makes-the-tiny-pc-look-like-the-worlds-cutest-mac-pro https://www.tomshardware.com/desktops/3d-printed-mac-mini-en...
m4button 2y ago
Well, you could try this solution, designed for people who’d like the flexibility of an on/off choice! https://m4button.com/ https://m4button.com/

leptons 2y ago

>The Mac mini M4 performance is around 4-5x in DaVinci Resolve for me - compared to my HP laptop (i5-1135G7). You could pick a variety of non Apple CPUs that easily deliver 4-5x the performance of an 11th gen i5. Maybe don't be disingenous and compare the M4 to a more recent CPU like i5-14600K, which is also 4x the performance. I'm not comparing on power efficiency, since that was not mentioned at all as part of your comment.

matthew-wegner 2y ago
Is it 4x the performance? Passmark shows 38,951 / 4,282 versus 24,724 / 4,555: https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Core+i5-14600K&id=5720 https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Core+i5-14600... https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Apple+M4+10+Core&id=6040 https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Apple+M4+10+Core&id... So i5-14600K is 1.57x on multi-core, slightly worse on single-core. $235 for the CPU versus $599 for a whole system. Could maybe match the total price, but Intel won't be able to come anywhere close on the power efficiency.
- Rohansi 2y ago
  4x vs. the old i5, not the M4. They are trying to say that comparing to a CPU released four years ago is pointless because the newer CPU is obviously much better.
- dansky 2y ago
  The 120GB/s memory bandwidth of the unified memory helps especially with video, I guess. The M4 CPU isn't really stressed out most of the time. Only multicam and HLG conversations it maxes out. Once I patched my old Dell T1650 BIOS for ReBAR support yet the iGPU of the i5 1135-g7 had similar GPU performance for video as the Intel Arc A380 in the desktop PC. The old PCIe3 speed limited its performance. I heard others reported a smoother replay experience with Apple silicon compared to even a RTX4090. I get some delays when fast scrubbing through a 9 multicam 720p timeline and just 360p proxies. Still impressed compared to what I was used to. Video editors may be surprised about the performance for the price.

mamp 2y ago

When do you turn it off? I have a Mac M1 Studio and I just let it sleep. If things get weird I reboot. I think I recall using the power button about a year ago after returning from vacation after I had shut it down.

cchance 2y ago
Like seriously WTF are people turning it off its 3 watts at idle lol, most power supplies have that much phantom drain lol
- llm_nerd 2y ago
  Everyone keeps citing idle, which is when the device is on and active but not particularly doing anything. The standby power draw is 1W or less. I've used Mac Minis for years -- just replaced my M1 with an M4, though the M1 left me wanting for nothing -- and the number of times I've interacted with the power button is so negligible I imagine I've gone over a year without touching it. When I haven't touched it in a while it goes to standby, waking instantly when I engage it again.
- sjoerger 2y ago
  Not everyone lives the same way. I am seriously considering a Mac Mini as my next upgrade yet I live in a RV and move frequently. Are there ways that I can keep the Mac mini powered while traveling.. sure, but why would/should I?
  - CrumpetDiagonal 2y ago
    Are you not turning off entire circuits to reduce power draw when mobile? I’m actually thinking about one of these for my truck camper and its power draw seems fine, but the stumbling point for me is the additional power draw from the monitor it would require. I think I’m leaning toward an M4 MBP with nano textured screen for maximum power efficiency and ability to work outside when it’s nice, though I have not yet put much effort into researching efficient monitors
  - deleted 2y ago

rwalle 2y ago

i5-1135G7 is from about 4 years ago. If you look at the latest offerings from Intel/AMD the gap should be fairly small.

ideashower 2y ago

Have you tried 8K video? How does each machine handle that?

dansky 2y ago
I just arranged a selection of 4K H.264/H.265 clips in a 2x2 grid on a 8K timeline in DaVinci Resolve. Playback works well - up to 60fps. However, export to H.265 creates a lot of Swap. Rendering went with 15-18fps. All videos on a SMB network drive but the GPU was the bottleneck for rendering. Swap was even around 24GB with 5 videos which I tested first. Using 4x4K it went 9 GB before stabilizing at around 2GB. No effects or grading whatsoever - plain 4K60 SDR videos. One single SDR 4K clip renders to 8K at 25fps. Using Superscale 2x makes that 0.5-1fps. For 8K rendering you may be better off with 32GB RAM minimum or trying the M4 Pro model maybe with 24GB. For 4K/6K editing the base 16/256 M4 Mac mini seems sufficient when all video storage will be on external drives or network. Edit: added single 4k->8K rendering performance
- ideashower 2y ago
  thanks for checking! I think I'll get the M4 Pro and max out the RAM. I don't have the budget for whatever the future M4 Studio would look like, so this seems like a nice sweet spot.
  - dansky 2y ago
    I had a few OFX plugins and maybe had the browser running which may have impacted RAM. Depending on how much RAM you can keep free and the amount of grading on that 8K video you may be OK with the 24GB of the M4 Pro base model but yeah - more is always better though with Apple it's painful to add more of anything .. on a budget.