8 ms·

“If only they didn't put the power button on the bottom.” While I think Apple was off the rocker on this particular decision, I do respect their org structure

by 1-6 2y ago

“If only they didn't put the power button on the bottom.” While I think Apple was off the rocker on this particular decision, I do respect their org structure that allows this type of decision to occur. Believe me, there are companies where a dozen people or more would weigh in and prevent an unpopular choice. Consensus sometimes hinders a desired result (both good and bad).

phillco 2y ago
After buying one, I actually like it. I know exactly where it is, and can reach for it by feel more easily; I could never tell you whether the power button was on the left or right side of the old Mini/Studio without checking each time. It's also larger, more satisfying tactile/clicky, and concave compared to the old button (which was rounded into the outside curve, not particularly be satisfying to press). I think the old one being so small and indistinct feeling, and also being so close to the cables meant you would never try to reach for it blindly. You do have to lift it up a bit, but the device is so light you can do that with the same finger you're using to push the button (of course you need another finger to push the top of the mini _down_). I think neither old nor new button were really meant to be used more than occasionally, since you typically wake your Mac from the keyboard, and both designs reflect that. I do sympathize that the new version could be less flexible in different mounting positions though. (that said, I'd bet Jobs/Ive Apple would never have shipped this, unless the height underneath was exactly perfect for even the larger fingers to fit)
- atonse 2y ago
  Jobs and Ive had their head scratchers. Like the Magic Mouse with the bottom charging port, or the Cube with all its cables coming in from the bottom.
  - phillco 2y ago
    I was thinking their version might be making the Apple logo itself t beinghe [overly] touch sensitive power button, like the Cube.
  - derefr 2y ago
    The GP's same argument also applies to the Magic Mouse, as it happens: > It's a way of signaling how the product should be used. In the Magic Mouse's case, it came out just on the cusp of wireless mice becoming "a thing." Most people, if they were allowed, would have just left the mouse tethered to a computer by its charging cable at all times, since that's what they were used to. But Apple thought you'd be happier once you stopped doing that. So someone (Ive?) decided to make it so that you couldn't charge the Magic Mouse and use it at the same time. This did two things: 1. it forced people to try using the Magic Mouse without any cable connected, so that they would notice the added freedom a wireless mouse affords. It was a "push out of the nest." 2. it made charging annoying and flow-breaking enough that people would put it off as long as possible — which would make people realize that the Magic Mouse's battery lasted for weeks on a charge, and so you really never would need to interrupt your flow to charge; you'd just maybe leave it plugged in to charge when you leave work on a Friday night (and even then, only when it occurs to you), and that'd be it. --- One could argue that the truly strange thing, is that Apple has never changed this design, 15 years and one revision later. That's an entire human generation! Presumably people these days know that peripherals can be wireless and have long battery life. But consider: Apple's flagship mousing peripheral — the one shown next to the Magic Keyboard in all product marketing photos — is the Magic Trackpad, not the Magic Mouse. The Magic Trackpad is the first-class option for multitouch interaction with macOS; some more-recent multitouch gestures don't even work on the Magic Mouse. (The Magic Mouse never got "3D touch", for one thing.) In other words, the Magic Mouse is basically a forgotten also-ran at this point — something just there on the wall in the Apple Store for those few people who can't stand the idea of using a desktop computer through a giant trackpad. Which leads to an interesting question: what is the user-profile for the person who buys (or is bought) a Magic Mouse in 2024? Well, probably one major user-profile is "your grandpa, a retiree from a publishing company, who's been using the same computer he brought home from work 20 years ago, until it broke last week — that computer being a Power Mac G5 with a Mighty Mouse; and who has never had a laptop, and so never learned to use a trackpad." And if the Magic Mouse user is your grandpa... then said user probably does still need the cord-cutting lesson that the Magic Mouse "teaches"!
    - afavour 2y ago
      > it made charging annoying and flow-breaking enough that people would put it off as long as possible — which would make people realize that the Magic Mouse's battery lasted for weeks on a charge At a certain point this just reads like Apple apologia. They made a mouse you can’t use while it’s charging as a means to advertise how long the battery lasts? What?
  - seec 2y ago
    The Magic Mouse refresh was done way after Jobs death. The Cube had a very annoying design for ports indeed, but at least it was very easy to open/repair, with a handle specifically for it. But for sure it was a case of looks trumping everything, including practicality, unsurprisingly it didn't sell very well.
henryfjordan 2y ago
It's a way of signaling how the product should be used. Plug it in, hit the power button, put it down, and never turn it off again. For many users that's probably the only time they will ever interact with that button (or want to). I actually think it's a really good choice and shows Apple really understands design. And with the relatively low power consumption it makes sense. It's not like it's drawing a ton of power on idle
- mschuster91 2y ago
  > It's not like it's drawing a ton of power on idle Probably even drawing less than a "normal" PC PSU would just burn to heat in losses, lol. 3 watts of total idle power consumption, that's nuts how low it is... Your average PC PSU hits up to 95% efficiency, so even at maximum efficiency at full load it would burn like 30 watts.
  - xxs 2y ago
    The quote efficiency on most PSU would be around the half load (more or less). The total system draw does not include the power supply - it will have its own losses esp on low end, still likely in the 80s
- spike021 2y ago
  I have a Mac Mini and can't remember the last time I had to manually press the button. IIRC it even reboots on its own after a power outage. I think I shut it down once for an extended vacation just to make sure appliances weren't on while I was gone and when I switched apartments. Otherwise I'd check and post my uptime from the command line. It's a launch M1 mini so I'd wager less times pressing the power button than I have fingers on one hand.
  - shuckles 2y ago
    Apple Silicon devices turn on automatically from IO, even after shut down, so the power button is only useful to: force shutdown if unresponsive or execute some sort of boot key combo to enter a recovery mode.
sabareesh 2y ago
Just flip it upside down
- xpe 2y ago
  Or just use it in Australia. Or Antarctica. Etc.
dan-robertson 2y ago
You don’t press it very often and this makes it harder to press accidentally (eg putting stuff on top of the computer or a curious cat). I very rarely use the power button on a computer but maybe we behave differently.
- lm28469 2y ago
  That's what I was going to say. Do people still use these ? Given the low power and the general stability (I often have 150-300 days of uptime on my macbook m1) why not just put it to sleep and wake it up with the keyboard/mouse ? I can't even remember the last time I actually rebooted my desktop, maybe last year and I'm not even sure I'm the first to shit on apple but this sounds like a complete non issue
vunderba 2y ago
I mind this design decision a hell of a lot less than the baffling deliberate decision to map EVERY KEYBOARD BUTTON to be equivalent to the power button (which the damn thing already has) on their laptop line-up. I love it when my macbook is turned off and I accidentally nudge a single letter on the keyboard and it powers back on - not to mention when you're drying to clean it with a micro fiber cloth.
- lukevp 2y ago
  If you fully shut down a mac laptop, you have to press and hold the power button to turn it back on. Not sure what you’re talking about here and probably why you’re getting downvoted.
  - Vegenoid 2y ago
    I don't know about every macbook, but I just tried this twice on my 2019 macbook pro and pressing any key on the keyboard (or at least the 2 keys I tried, "f" and "8") will power it on when it is powered off (yes, fully shut down, not asleep). Based on some quick googling, this still appears to be the case for M-series macbooks.
  - H1Supreme 2y ago
    My M1 Macbook Pro turns on (after being fully shut down) by keypress.
    - ryandrake 2y ago
      That’s a pretty wild definition of “fully shut down” that manufacturers (not just Apple) are pushing. When my device is shut down, I expect it to be fully de-energized and drawing zero current. How can a keyboard action re-apply power if the button itself is not completing the power circuit? This is one of the reasons I’ve started putting all of my devices on power strips with physical switches that de-energize the AC mains. You can’t even trust devices to power off when they say they are off. The number of devices in your home that draw current when they are “off” is too damn high.
  - 2y ago
justinclift 2y ago
As a counter point, that same org structure resulted in the removal of the 3.5mm audio port. Ugh.
- n_ary 2y ago
  Probably to gear up towards their bluetooth airpod series, which doesn’t need that port. The wired ones are decent yet cheap, but if they did not remove the 3.5mm, then except teens and hip adults, most people would opt for the wired ones. My M1 Max Pro again has the 3.5mm port, and I have bought a pair of wired ones and gifted my airpods to my teen nephew.
  - yazaddaruvala 2y ago
    and improving water resistance.
- littlecranky67 2y ago
  All Mac devices still come with a headphone jack - and they are even good for higher impedance headphones (I use a 32ohms DT770 on my Macbook/MacMini). For mobile devices, removing the headphone jack was not well received and it annoyed me too when it happened. Last year I made the switch to airpod pros, and I think I was the last person on earth to switch to BT for headphones - never looking back. So much better not to have a cable and untangled it.
  - bityard 2y ago
    I value flexibility in a product more than just about anything else. I will quite often choose the product with more features and use cases, even if it means paying a little extra money, just to have the _option_ to use a particular feature, even if I'm quite sure I won't use it on a daily basis.
gwbas1c 2y ago
I have a lot of devices where I frequently accidentally hit the power / sleep button. Keep it on the bottom where it's hard to hit accidentally.

by 1-6 2y ago

phillco 2y ago

After buying one, I actually like it. I know exactly where it is, and can reach for it by feel more easily; I could never tell you whether the power button was on the left or right side of the old Mini/Studio without checking each time. It's also larger, more satisfying tactile/clicky, and concave compared to the old button (which was rounded into the outside curve, not particularly be satisfying to press). I think the old one being so small and indistinct feeling, and also being so close to the cables meant you would never try to reach for it blindly. You do have to lift it up a bit, but the device is so light you can do that with the same finger you're using to push the button (of course you need another finger to push the top of the mini _down_). I think neither old nor new button were really meant to be used more than occasionally, since you typically wake your Mac from the keyboard, and both designs reflect that. I do sympathize that the new version could be less flexible in different mounting positions though. (that said, I'd bet Jobs/Ive Apple would never have shipped this, unless the height underneath was exactly perfect for even the larger fingers to fit)

atonse 2y ago
Jobs and Ive had their head scratchers. Like the Magic Mouse with the bottom charging port, or the Cube with all its cables coming in from the bottom.
- phillco 2y ago
  I was thinking their version might be making the Apple logo itself t beinghe [overly] touch sensitive power button, like the Cube.
- derefr 2y ago
  The GP's same argument also applies to the Magic Mouse, as it happens: > It's a way of signaling how the product should be used. In the Magic Mouse's case, it came out just on the cusp of wireless mice becoming "a thing." Most people, if they were allowed, would have just left the mouse tethered to a computer by its charging cable at all times, since that's what they were used to. But Apple thought you'd be happier once you stopped doing that. So someone (Ive?) decided to make it so that you couldn't charge the Magic Mouse and use it at the same time. This did two things: 1. it forced people to try using the Magic Mouse without any cable connected, so that they would notice the added freedom a wireless mouse affords. It was a "push out of the nest." 2. it made charging annoying and flow-breaking enough that people would put it off as long as possible — which would make people realize that the Magic Mouse's battery lasted for weeks on a charge, and so you really never would need to interrupt your flow to charge; you'd just maybe leave it plugged in to charge when you leave work on a Friday night (and even then, only when it occurs to you), and that'd be it. --- One could argue that the truly strange thing, is that Apple has never changed this design, 15 years and one revision later. That's an entire human generation! Presumably people these days know that peripherals can be wireless and have long battery life. But consider: Apple's flagship mousing peripheral — the one shown next to the Magic Keyboard in all product marketing photos — is the Magic Trackpad, not the Magic Mouse. The Magic Trackpad is the first-class option for multitouch interaction with macOS; some more-recent multitouch gestures don't even work on the Magic Mouse. (The Magic Mouse never got "3D touch", for one thing.) In other words, the Magic Mouse is basically a forgotten also-ran at this point — something just there on the wall in the Apple Store for those few people who can't stand the idea of using a desktop computer through a giant trackpad. Which leads to an interesting question: what is the user-profile for the person who buys (or is bought) a Magic Mouse in 2024? Well, probably one major user-profile is "your grandpa, a retiree from a publishing company, who's been using the same computer he brought home from work 20 years ago, until it broke last week — that computer being a Power Mac G5 with a Mighty Mouse; and who has never had a laptop, and so never learned to use a trackpad." And if the Magic Mouse user is your grandpa... then said user probably does still need the cord-cutting lesson that the Magic Mouse "teaches"!
  - afavour 2y ago
    > it made charging annoying and flow-breaking enough that people would put it off as long as possible — which would make people realize that the Magic Mouse's battery lasted for weeks on a charge At a certain point this just reads like Apple apologia. They made a mouse you can’t use while it’s charging as a means to advertise how long the battery lasts? What?
- seec 2y ago
  The Magic Mouse refresh was done way after Jobs death. The Cube had a very annoying design for ports indeed, but at least it was very easy to open/repair, with a handle specifically for it. But for sure it was a case of looks trumping everything, including practicality, unsurprisingly it didn't sell very well.

henryfjordan 2y ago

It's a way of signaling how the product should be used. Plug it in, hit the power button, put it down, and never turn it off again. For many users that's probably the only time they will ever interact with that button (or want to). I actually think it's a really good choice and shows Apple really understands design. And with the relatively low power consumption it makes sense. It's not like it's drawing a ton of power on idle

mschuster91 2y ago
> It's not like it's drawing a ton of power on idle Probably even drawing less than a "normal" PC PSU would just burn to heat in losses, lol. 3 watts of total idle power consumption, that's nuts how low it is... Your average PC PSU hits up to 95% efficiency, so even at maximum efficiency at full load it would burn like 30 watts.
- xxs 2y ago
  The quote efficiency on most PSU would be around the half load (more or less). The total system draw does not include the power supply - it will have its own losses esp on low end, still likely in the 80s
spike021 2y ago
I have a Mac Mini and can't remember the last time I had to manually press the button. IIRC it even reboots on its own after a power outage. I think I shut it down once for an extended vacation just to make sure appliances weren't on while I was gone and when I switched apartments. Otherwise I'd check and post my uptime from the command line. It's a launch M1 mini so I'd wager less times pressing the power button than I have fingers on one hand.
- shuckles 2y ago
  Apple Silicon devices turn on automatically from IO, even after shut down, so the power button is only useful to: force shutdown if unresponsive or execute some sort of boot key combo to enter a recovery mode.

sabareesh 2y ago

Just flip it upside down

xpe 2y ago
Or just use it in Australia. Or Antarctica. Etc.

dan-robertson 2y ago

You don’t press it very often and this makes it harder to press accidentally (eg putting stuff on top of the computer or a curious cat). I very rarely use the power button on a computer but maybe we behave differently.

lm28469 2y ago
That's what I was going to say. Do people still use these ? Given the low power and the general stability (I often have 150-300 days of uptime on my macbook m1) why not just put it to sleep and wake it up with the keyboard/mouse ? I can't even remember the last time I actually rebooted my desktop, maybe last year and I'm not even sure I'm the first to shit on apple but this sounds like a complete non issue

vunderba 2y ago

I mind this design decision a hell of a lot less than the baffling deliberate decision to map EVERY KEYBOARD BUTTON to be equivalent to the power button (which the damn thing already has) on their laptop line-up. I love it when my macbook is turned off and I accidentally nudge a single letter on the keyboard and it powers back on - not to mention when you're drying to clean it with a micro fiber cloth.

lukevp 2y ago
If you fully shut down a mac laptop, you have to press and hold the power button to turn it back on. Not sure what you’re talking about here and probably why you’re getting downvoted.
- Vegenoid 2y ago
  I don't know about every macbook, but I just tried this twice on my 2019 macbook pro and pressing any key on the keyboard (or at least the 2 keys I tried, "f" and "8") will power it on when it is powered off (yes, fully shut down, not asleep). Based on some quick googling, this still appears to be the case for M-series macbooks.
- H1Supreme 2y ago
  My M1 Macbook Pro turns on (after being fully shut down) by keypress.
  - ryandrake 2y ago
    That’s a pretty wild definition of “fully shut down” that manufacturers (not just Apple) are pushing. When my device is shut down, I expect it to be fully de-energized and drawing zero current. How can a keyboard action re-apply power if the button itself is not completing the power circuit? This is one of the reasons I’ve started putting all of my devices on power strips with physical switches that de-energize the AC mains. You can’t even trust devices to power off when they say they are off. The number of devices in your home that draw current when they are “off” is too damn high.
- 2y ago

justinclift 2y ago

As a counter point, that same org structure resulted in the removal of the 3.5mm audio port. Ugh.

n_ary 2y ago
Probably to gear up towards their bluetooth airpod series, which doesn’t need that port. The wired ones are decent yet cheap, but if they did not remove the 3.5mm, then except teens and hip adults, most people would opt for the wired ones. My M1 Max Pro again has the 3.5mm port, and I have bought a pair of wired ones and gifted my airpods to my teen nephew.
- yazaddaruvala 2y ago
  and improving water resistance.
littlecranky67 2y ago
All Mac devices still come with a headphone jack - and they are even good for higher impedance headphones (I use a 32ohms DT770 on my Macbook/MacMini). For mobile devices, removing the headphone jack was not well received and it annoyed me too when it happened. Last year I made the switch to airpod pros, and I think I was the last person on earth to switch to BT for headphones - never looking back. So much better not to have a cable and untangled it.
- bityard 2y ago
  I value flexibility in a product more than just about anything else. I will quite often choose the product with more features and use cases, even if it means paying a little extra money, just to have the _option_ to use a particular feature, even if I'm quite sure I won't use it on a daily basis.

gwbas1c 2y ago

I have a lot of devices where I frequently accidentally hit the power / sleep button. Keep it on the bottom where it's hard to hit accidentally.