4 ms·

> If only they didn't put the power button on the bottom. I can't tell if anyone is being serious about the "Powergate" issue. The thing is 5" wide and weighs

• ewhanley 2y ago
  I also wonder how often people are actually turning them off. It's generally a rare event to push the power button on a mac in my experience
  • deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  • artdigital 2y ago
    I turn my Mac off every day
    • josephg 2y ago
      Why? I only reboot my Mac laptop when I’m forced to due to os updates. With a Mac mini? That thing would never get shut down.
• kranke155 2y ago
  It’s not a burden. I consider it a typical Tim Cook decision, in that the man led the company that made one of the fastest CPUs in the world, makes it draw as much as a Raspberry Pi. Absolutely crazy feats of engineering, design, manufacturing… and - There is that ONE detail that would’ve made it perfected but it’s botched! I don’t mind it too much, since it’s still 99% close to perfect. But, but…
  • AcerbicZero 2y ago
    Hah, Tim Cook decision pretty much sums it up; its the kind of thing that wouldn't have lasted 5 seconds when placed in front of Jobs (although there is a strong chance Jobs would have demanded his own nonsensical addition/subtraction to the design).
    • kranke155 2y ago
      Yeah he likely would have said no ports, or lets have only one port, or he would have demanded that the Mac mini has the dimensions of some multiple of pi… Nobody’s perfect.
    • mullingitover 2y ago
      Jobs would've thrown it out the window, and verbally abused the intern who brought it in, because it has ports in the front. He would've kept the power button on the bottom, though.
      • kranke155 2y ago
        Ports on the front are 100% the right decision though. Thats the thing. You're right, he would've, but also he stopped a lot of good decisions from happening because it just wasn't to his taste. So like, power button on the bottom isn't the end of the world.
    • marshray 2y ago
      Jobs would have removed the power button entirely. And then when there's a fault requiring a hard reset to fix you have to insert a bent paperclip into a tiny unlabeled hole on the bottom, or spell out a message in morse code by unplugging and re-plugging the power cord with some special timing. (This is not sarcasm)
    • vunderba 2y ago
      Was Jobs in charge when they decide to place the power connector on the bottom of the "magic mouse"? But it's fine because it can fit in a manila envelope.
• bookofjoe 2y ago
  >Apple Says There’s a Simple Reason for the Mac Mini’s Odd Power Button Location https://gizmodo.com/apple-mac-minis-odd-power-button-location-2000523044 https://gizmodo.com/apple-mac-minis-odd-power-button-locatio...
  • muti 2y ago
    > Apple VPs Greg Jozwiak and John Ternus explained in an interview to a Chinese content creator on Billibilli (spotted and machine-translated by ITHome) that the main reason the power button is on the bottom of the 2024 Mac Mini is because of the computer’s size. Since it was nearly half the size of the previous generation, the underside was “kind of the optimal stop” for a power button. They also say most users “never use the power button” on a Mac, anyway. > Apple isn’t wrong here. The Mac mini measures 5 x 5 x 2 inches, compared to 7.75 x 7.75 x 1.4 inches from the last generation; it takes up much less space on your desk, which is great. The trade-off is that you run out of space for some important things, like a power button.
    • imiric 2y ago
      That explanation makes no sense. There are many mini PCs of the same size that have their power button in an accessible location. The excuse that most users never use the power button is the "you're holding it wrong" of 2024. Stop telling me how to use your devices, Apple. The explanation mentioned on several forums that it's a cost cutting measure to avoid extruding yet another hole in the aluminum case, or routing the power cable, makes no sense either. This is a state-of-the-art machine, yet they're cutting costs on such trivialities? Give me a break. This is unequivocally poor design. Yet Apple will never publicly admit that, and will gaslight everyone to think it's actually good, as they usually do.
      • kopirgan 2y ago
        They've managed to get people to accept things they'll never accept in Intel or Android ecosystem. Like no SD card, no memory expansion, no dual SIM etc. That gives the confidence. I guess once system shuts down you can switch off the power at the mains or adapter socket.
• steeleduncan 2y ago
  Because minis are very commonly racked in bulk, and its both very irritating for that use case, and entirely unnecessary
  • cguess 2y ago
    Minis are rarely racked in bulk unless you're running a server farm, which is not the use case they design for. The MacMini is first and foremost a desktop computer for non-professional people or at least not sysadmins. If people want to rack them, go ahead, but in that case how often are you hard rebooting a machine vs soft reboot anyways? Macs aren't known for freezing up too much. Either way, it works for the use case its designed for.
  • evilduck 2y ago
    Why not just rack them upside down then?
  • rgovostes 2y ago
    Some of the rackmount kits for previous generations already reroute the power button and connectors to the front, like this https://racknex.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/with-power-button-zr-pbk-001-racknex.jpg https://racknex.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/with-power-bu.... (Though why not just install it backwards?) I guess they will be able to run a little lever under the M4 model the same way. Actually, the M4 model is a little taller so it no longer fits in a 1U rack mount. Whereas before you could fit 2 horizontally in 1U, now you'd possibly fit 8 or 9 vertically in 3U. (Edit: This company says 10 per 2U https://www.racksolutions.com/m4-mac-mini-apple-hypershelf.html https://www.racksolutions.com/m4-mac-mini-apple-hypershelf.h....)
    • matt-p 2y ago
      I think the airflow for more than 3 per 1.33u, or 8-9 per 3u will necessarily suck. I have designed for both, I think both have great use cases. 2 x 8 in 6u is really neat and tidy, I just don't love the concept of sitting the fans on their side, though I think they'll still last 5 years.
  • 2y ago
• ChrisMarshallNY 2y ago
  I just got one (M4Pro model). It's pretty zippy. I have pressed the power button exactly once, since Friday (the day I got it). All other restarts were "soft" (including a couple of crashes). The keyboard and trackpad do fine, starting a shut-down computer. It's replacing a docked MBP. That power button was a lot more difficult to reach, and I needed to hit it more often than this.
  • rgovostes 2y ago
    I spent a few minutes looking up whether a Mac could be booted from a Bluetooth keyboard but couldn't find any documentation of that. Back in the day some(?) Mac models could be booted by a USB keyboard, see https://www.projectgus.com/2023/04/griffin-imate/ https://www.projectgus.com/2023/04/griffin-imate/ for technical details.
    • kube-system 2y ago
      > Back in the day some(?) Mac models could be booted by a USB keyboard Heck, way back in the day, Macs all had power buttons on the keyboard. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_key https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_key
    • ChrisMarshallNY 2y ago
      I just bang on the spacebar, and it starts up. It's a Bluetooth keyboard, so I guess the system is listening to BT. I did that with the laptop, forever. The Mini starts up a lot faster than the laptop. That said, I should actually do a test, to make sure that the system is in real shutdown...
      • ChrisMarshallNY 2y ago
        Nah. I'm wrong. The laptop started that way, probably because the keyboard is attached to a CalDigit dock, and tapping on the keyboard probably sent power to the device, which starts it. That doesn't happen with the Mini, if I actually do a shutdown from the menu. Apple has something I think they call "Deep Sleep," which is basically a shutdown, and that wakes from the keyboard. That said, it's not a big deal to reach under the left side, and tap the button. The laptop was a pain, because I had to open it up. But I've only had this thing a few days, and haven't had a chance to really torture it, yet.
• akira2501 2y ago
  > it's not exactly a burden to lift it a little. Human dexterity is not constant. Some people have injuries which compromise them. > And there are highly practical workarounds: Apple. A consumer product company where every _single_ product has some massive defect which must be apologized around. Which is fine.. but I'm not sure how that justifies their typical price point.
  • iphoneisbetter 2y ago
    [dead]
• darknavi 2y ago
  If the power button is the main gripe with this model of Mac Mini, then its doing pretty well.
• userbinator 2y ago
  Or rotate it 180 degrees. There's nothing on the top (now bottom) anyway that can't stand being covered up.
  • leptons 2y ago
    Sounds vaguely like "you're holding it wrong". Maybe it was always supposed to be placed on its side? Apple should clarify why the button is on the bottom.
    • znpy 2y ago
      this sounds like a "big-endian vs little-endian" kind of quarrel, to be honest
• mlsu 2y ago
  And I mean, it uses 4 watts idle. If you power it off overnight for 12 hours you've saved... half a glass of orange juice worth of energy.
  • redundantly 2y ago
    As with all things regarding power efficiency, you have to consider the wide use of these devices, not just the individual use. If moving the power button there changes the behavior of thousands of people that would typically shut their computer down when they're not using it, that half glass of orange juice turns into thousands of gallons.
    • atonse 2y ago
      4 watts idle, how many watts on sleep?
• rconti 2y ago
  Because the comment is very specifically talking about rack-mount installations. Granted, no matter you put the power switch, it's going to be difficult to reach if you install 21 of them on a single shelf.
• 00deadbeef 2y ago
  The comment in the article is in the context of rack mounting them which is a common thing to do with Mac minis. Having it on the bottom makes it hard to press as you can’t lift them up when they’re secured in a mount.
  • geerlingguy 2y ago
    Exactly this. I am working on a solution to make it easier to hit the button from the front of a rack shelf, but the fact I have to mess with 3D printing just to hit a power button is silly. Older Macs also had the power button on the back, which was also annoying, but at least a Mac that's secured to a shelf could have its power button pressed pretty easily. The Mac mini _requires_ a mechanism to press up from the bottom in any permanent-ish install.
    • macintux 2y ago
      Serious question: why not mount it upside down?
    • initplus 2y ago
      I mean they aren't designed for rack mounting? It's a consumer product, likely <0.1% of units produced will end up in a rack.
    • awiesenhofer 2y ago
      Genuine question: why not just use a managed pdu and be done with it? No need to even get up and go to the DC/Rack.
  • JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > Having it on the bottom makes it hard to press as you can’t lift them up when they’re secured in a mount Hard rebooot is the only situation where you should be using the physical power button on a modern Mac. If you're installing Macs on a rack, presumably you can sudo shutdown -r. The button on the bottom is trying to tell you that the system is built to be well behaved on stand by.
  • 2y ago
• gre 2y ago
  power button on the bottom means kids/cats won't accidentally press it
  • ahartmetz 2y ago
    Steering wheel in the footwell means the front passenger won't sneeze on it. Come on, it's a dumb idea. Apple has them sometimes - really!
    • gre 2y ago
      No really, imagine a surge protector with the switch recessed on the bottom. Only plugs on the top, nothing to step on and bring down your desktop.
• znpy 2y ago
  one of my favorite conspiracy theories i've picked up recently is that apple purposedly puts these kind of annoyances in their product. things like the button on the bottom of the new mac mini or the dumb notch on the macbooks. according to the theory, such things: 1. they catch attention of people and give them something to talk about (and to fight about) 2. they might steal attention from other flaws it makes perfect sense: the notch, this idiotic decision about the button, the charge port on the mouse.
• johnklos 2y ago
  I can't imagine it's anything but a silly comment. Macs have the equivalent of wake-on-LAN, plus you can configure them trivially to restart after power loss. The idea that you'd have to press the button often is just silly.
  • JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > can't imagine it's anything but a silly comment Given my cat, after learning to press a button on his automated feeder, now presses anything that looks like a button with the curious expectation of food, I can only presume he got out while I was in Cupertino. Button on the bottom isn't a design mistake. It's an opinionated choice.
• tshaddox 2y ago
  It's probably easier to find and press than the old 27" iMacs. I always had a brief moment of trouble feeling around the back to find that darn button (part of the reason is that you need to press it very infrequently).
• freetime2 2y ago
  > The thing is 5" wide and weighs 1.5 lbs, it's not exactly a burden to lift it a little. It's the difference between being able to hit the button one-handed or needing two hands. My Mac Mini is sitting at the back of my desk, and the power button is toward the rear end of the Mac, and I definitely find it a bit clumsy to reach back with two hands, flip it over (disturbing an wires/peripherals that might be plugged in), find the button, and press it. > And there are highly practical workarounds Not as practical as putting the button on the front or top. It's certainly not a deal breaker, but I do find it mildly annoying. The ideal for me would be to have the button easily accessible on the front or top, and have it behave like other devices I use: a short press to sleep/wake, and a long press to initiate shutdown. And when I'm getting up from my desk, I could give it a quick tap to put it to sleep and lock it. My workaround is to use a keyboard shortcut to put it to sleep, which it works fine and is not a big deal. But I still think Apple deserves a bit of mockery for this decision.
• m4button 2y ago
  If you don't have a 3D printer, we've got you covered here: https://m4button.com https://m4button.com