3 ms·

I wonder if it’ll be normalised in the future to live in a place like Barcelona and travel to a place like London once a week for two or three days for work and

I wonder if it’ll be normalised in the future to live in a place like Barcelona and travel to a place like London once a week for two or three days for work and then go back to live in Barcelona. Perhaps a hostel like place in London to crash after work + Pub in those 3 work days, while enjoying a nice comfy house and local culture in Barcelona for the rest of the week..

barceloni99 2y ago
[dead]
- atemerev 2y ago
  You have no say in it. All cities are open for everyone who have the legal right to go there and spend money.
  - forgotoldacc 2y ago
    That poster does have a say in it. They can vote for politicians who'll ban it. And if things boil over and their voices aren't heard, riots are very common in continental Europe. Particularly when flagrant wealth divides are involved. Talking down like that to locals really fans the flames of the latter solution. Probably not good to do it.
    - atemerev 2y ago
      Ban what? City-scale tourism and immigration? How? Passport controls on the city borders? Walls? We are not at this stage yet. If you live in a nice city (and Barcelona is a great city, truly a world's treasure), it attracts tourists, by definition. I don't think anything can be done about that (except maybe ban AirBnB and introduce hotel tax -- but they will just live in places nearby and drive in by cars). You can also of course make your city less nice (by riots, crime, graffiti, trash, whatever), but this is shooting oneself in a foot. The "problem" has no solution. Great cities are attractive, people want to go there, and have the legal right to. Locals can do things to regulate tourism by economic means, but you can't say "don't come", except on state level. The city is not your property.
      - tonyedgecombe 2y ago
        I don't know why you think that. Some cities (Venice for example) are already implementing controls to limit demand. Turn the political heat up and it can happen anywhere.
        cinntaile 2y ago
        They're not banning tourists. Just charging them. Big difference.
        maeil 2y ago
        If they can charge $1, they can charge $x where x is high enough to make it an effective ban.
        atemerev 2y ago
        Venice is unique, it is an island with a single bridge connecting it to mainland. It is easy to put a toll booth there. And at this point, it is more a city-wide museum than a living city anyway, the money will go to maintenance. The regulation is not there because of the protests of the residents, there are not many remaining. Other cities would require a wall.
        tonyedgecombe 2y ago
        >Other cities would require a wall. No they wouldn't. Just higher fees on hotel rooms or congestions charges for cars. It's possible to reduce the numbers visiting any city.
        atemerev 2y ago
        These are fine, though don’t help much and bad for local economy and prosperity (tourists bring money and buy food and things from local businesses which employ local people and pay local taxes). “You can’t come here” is not fine, and thankfully infeasible. The same logic should also work for states; people, however, are irrational in this regard.
    - rounce 2y ago
      Are riots really "very common" in continental Europe or is that just a trope?
      - atemerev 2y ago
        There are some. There was recently an antisemitic riot in Amsterdam. Police ended it quickly however. There are also some organized protests (including protests against tourism in Barcelona, but I wouldn't call these "riots"). I think their prevalence is about the same as in the US.
forgotoldacc 2y ago
> while enjoying a nice comfy house and local culture in Barcelona for the rest of the week.. Kind of hard to have any local culture when everyone local is pushed out by rich elites from another country who fly to commute and can afford to have two homes in two countries. AirBNB, "nomads", and the likes are city killers.
- wink 2y ago
  I get your sentiment but I can think of so many exceptions. I've seen people here in Germany splitting their time between tiny flat near workplace for <500 EUR during the week and (whatever bigger, better, often inherited) in the countryside. Does not mean you're rich per se. Not poor, sure. Also yes, you said fly in, but there's really no difference if they fly in or go to their weekend house on Thursday or Friday by car, they're not here. I think the main point is the "is the person actually living there or visiting twice per year", because I think that is killing neighborhoods (if people talk to each other, not the case here in my building).
tinyspacewizard 2y ago
Brexit made this far less likely - but perhaps people in France, Germany, Spain, etc. could do this.
badpun 2y ago
Maybe it could be normal for a while, but eventually we'll start running out of oil, which will make flying expensive.
- tonyedgecombe 2y ago
  We are creating far bigger problems than running out of oil.
- abenga 2y ago
  It's Europe. You can take the train, right?
lifestyleguru 2y ago
You will not sleep cheaply in London, forget about it. Housing and train prices in London blew up every budgeting into some absurd dimension.
- defrost 2y ago
  Used to be a few cheap options . . . at the Twopenny Hangover, the lodgers sit in a row on a bench; there is a rope in front of them, and they lean on this as though leaning over a fence. A man, humorously called the valet, cuts the rope at five in the morning. ~ George Orwell, Down and Out in Paris and London (1933) Perhaps apocryphal. ( https://mikedashhistory.com/2021/05/19/the-twopenny-hangover/ https://mikedashhistory.com/2021/05/19/the-twopenny-hangover... )

barceloni99 2y ago

[dead]

atemerev 2y ago
You have no say in it. All cities are open for everyone who have the legal right to go there and spend money.
- forgotoldacc 2y ago
  That poster does have a say in it. They can vote for politicians who'll ban it. And if things boil over and their voices aren't heard, riots are very common in continental Europe. Particularly when flagrant wealth divides are involved. Talking down like that to locals really fans the flames of the latter solution. Probably not good to do it.
  - atemerev 2y ago
    Ban what? City-scale tourism and immigration? How? Passport controls on the city borders? Walls? We are not at this stage yet. If you live in a nice city (and Barcelona is a great city, truly a world's treasure), it attracts tourists, by definition. I don't think anything can be done about that (except maybe ban AirBnB and introduce hotel tax -- but they will just live in places nearby and drive in by cars). You can also of course make your city less nice (by riots, crime, graffiti, trash, whatever), but this is shooting oneself in a foot. The "problem" has no solution. Great cities are attractive, people want to go there, and have the legal right to. Locals can do things to regulate tourism by economic means, but you can't say "don't come", except on state level. The city is not your property.
    - tonyedgecombe 2y ago
      I don't know why you think that. Some cities (Venice for example) are already implementing controls to limit demand. Turn the political heat up and it can happen anywhere.
      - cinntaile 2y ago
        They're not banning tourists. Just charging them. Big difference.
        maeil 2y ago
        If they can charge $1, they can charge $x where x is high enough to make it an effective ban.
        atemerev 2y ago
        Venice is unique, it is an island with a single bridge connecting it to mainland. It is easy to put a toll booth there. And at this point, it is more a city-wide museum than a living city anyway, the money will go to maintenance. The regulation is not there because of the protests of the residents, there are not many remaining. Other cities would require a wall.
        tonyedgecombe 2y ago
        >Other cities would require a wall. No they wouldn't. Just higher fees on hotel rooms or congestions charges for cars. It's possible to reduce the numbers visiting any city.
        atemerev 2y ago
        These are fine, though don’t help much and bad for local economy and prosperity (tourists bring money and buy food and things from local businesses which employ local people and pay local taxes). “You can’t come here” is not fine, and thankfully infeasible. The same logic should also work for states; people, however, are irrational in this regard.
  - rounce 2y ago
    Are riots really "very common" in continental Europe or is that just a trope?
    - atemerev 2y ago
      There are some. There was recently an antisemitic riot in Amsterdam. Police ended it quickly however. There are also some organized protests (including protests against tourism in Barcelona, but I wouldn't call these "riots"). I think their prevalence is about the same as in the US.

forgotoldacc 2y ago

> while enjoying a nice comfy house and local culture in Barcelona for the rest of the week.. Kind of hard to have any local culture when everyone local is pushed out by rich elites from another country who fly to commute and can afford to have two homes in two countries. AirBNB, "nomads", and the likes are city killers.

wink 2y ago
I get your sentiment but I can think of so many exceptions. I've seen people here in Germany splitting their time between tiny flat near workplace for <500 EUR during the week and (whatever bigger, better, often inherited) in the countryside. Does not mean you're rich per se. Not poor, sure. Also yes, you said fly in, but there's really no difference if they fly in or go to their weekend house on Thursday or Friday by car, they're not here. I think the main point is the "is the person actually living there or visiting twice per year", because I think that is killing neighborhoods (if people talk to each other, not the case here in my building).

tinyspacewizard 2y ago

Brexit made this far less likely - but perhaps people in France, Germany, Spain, etc. could do this.

badpun 2y ago

Maybe it could be normal for a while, but eventually we'll start running out of oil, which will make flying expensive.

tonyedgecombe 2y ago
We are creating far bigger problems than running out of oil.
abenga 2y ago
It's Europe. You can take the train, right?

lifestyleguru 2y ago

You will not sleep cheaply in London, forget about it. Housing and train prices in London blew up every budgeting into some absurd dimension.

defrost 2y ago
Used to be a few cheap options . . . at the Twopenny Hangover, the lodgers sit in a row on a bench; there is a rope in front of them, and they lean on this as though leaning over a fence. A man, humorously called the valet, cuts the rope at five in the morning. ~ George Orwell, Down and Out in Paris and London (1933) Perhaps apocryphal. ( https://mikedashhistory.com/2021/05/19/the-twopenny-hangover/ https://mikedashhistory.com/2021/05/19/the-twopenny-hangover... )