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Cheaper to rent in Barcelona and commute to London (2013)
- siwatanejo 2y agoAnd the time spent in commuting door to door and the radiation you get by flying 4 days a week? Not worth it.
- happymellon 2y agoIndeed, going by train I can just walk up and get on. I've never been on a flight that didn't take a long time to get through all the corridors, wait for plane, fly and then walk the corridors at the other end not take hours. Even short haul from smaller London airports to a Spanish city. The system is set up to take up a significant amount of time.
- Jakob 2y agoTry out Singapore and fly for example to Phuket. It’s a very lean process with optimised waiting times (read: nearly none) and walking distances on both sides. It can be done, most airports are just amazingly inefficient. No idea why that is.
- Koffiepoeder 2y agoTo sell meals, drinks and other goodies. Tired travellers that are forced to wait are easy targets. Add in the occasional perfume store and Bob's your uncle.
- bobthepanda 2y agoAt least in the US the problem is that you can’t afford to shut down existing airports and so a lot of the remodeling ends up being hodgepodge and convoluted extensions and fitting whatever goes into a nook or cranny. The last major airport to be built in the US was DEN in 1995.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- happymellon 2y agoBecause the UK really doesn't do regional airports. If they did it would help, but basically I dont have many option outside of the London three or Manchester. Funnelling everyone through such a small number sounds efficient for the airport, but isn't from a travellers perspective. Heathrow and Gatwick, are massive.
- Jakob 2y agoI haven’t been to UK airports, but often I find one of the more prominent bottleneck to be central checks per terminal instead of distributed checks at each gate like they happen at more efficient airports. The latter is a major improvement: You can directly go to the gate and bag checks happen there.
- stavros 2y agoBut you realize that this isn't meant to propose a viable working plan, rather to highlight an absurd situation.
- Cthulhu_ 2y agoYeah it's a 2 hour 30 flight apparently, times two, that's five hours spent flying alone, and the quickest time through an airport is 30 minutes or so even with all the VIP access. Cost of flying has gone up since then too, and probably rents on both ends as well. I've long ago realised that cost, comfort, and commute are like the project management triangle, you can pick two: Short commute in a comfortable home is expensive, cheap home with a short commute is uncomfortable, and cheap and comfortable home means a long commute. This is why work from home is so valuable, in that you can live comfortably and affordably (say, a three bedroom apartment in Barcelona) without the cost or time spent commuting.
- happymellon 2y agoFrom October 2013
- Cthulhu_ 2y agoI did a quick check (https://www.zoopla.co.uk/to-rent/property/west-hampstead/ https://www.zoopla.co.uk/to-rent/property/west-hampstead/) and contrary to what I thought, a 1 bedroom apartment over there is still in the same range as 2013; I was sure it would've been double by now.
- fiala__ 2y agoWhile in Barcelona rents have been skyrocketing, largely due to British and other "expats" moving in: https://www.ft.com/content/d82f2c93-ab1b-46c7-b25f-ba768b813267 https://www.ft.com/content/d82f2c93-ab1b-46c7-b25f-ba768b813...
- Malidir 2y agoWhy would you expect it doubled? Population has not doubled, wages have not doubled, remote working became common after 2020 covid.
- sofixa 2y ago(not the person you're responding to, and I wouldn't have expected it to double, but definitely increase with double digits %) Yes, but it's well known that in most of the developed world housing is becoming more expensive and housing costs are outpacing wages, for a variety of reasons. Here's an infographic about the EU, based on Eurostat: https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/s/ZAsqzx4tRo https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/s/ZAsqzx4tRo
- tonyedgecombe 2y agoMostly it's a function of interest rates, the boom in prices happened after interest rates dropped close to zero (after the financial crisis). Unfortunately house prices tend to be sticky so they won't decline so quickly when interest rates rise but they certainly haven't been keeping pace with inflation nor wages over the last few years (in the UK).
- rich_sasha 2y agoI guess it sounds like a bug, but it is effectively a feature. The real cost of a flat in London is the proximity to things that people want - well paid jobs, culture and tourism. Nice flat + long commute thus can cost far less than small flat closer by. Door to door commute time is probably, what, 3 hrs one way at best. You can probably get some quite stunning properties in the UK on the same budget with a 3 hr commute.
- lifestyleguru 2y ago> Nice flat + long commute thus can cost far less than small flat closer by. Unfortunately this compromise is invalidated in England by their train prices.
- munksbeer 2y ago> Unfortunately this compromise is invalidated in England by their train prices. Yes. If you're truly min-maxing for money in London then the best strategy is to buy a nice place you're happy living in, hopefully just a cycle to the office. Avoid all sunk costs into commuting, and instead pay all the differences into an asset that you can eventually sell and recoup all that money when you move out of London (provided you do). I was doing that, and it worked well, until we decided to have children, and then other factors became more important than mix-maxing. I'm incredibly lucky that I get to work from home a lot, because we moved into Surrey, quite a long commute to the office, and horrendously expensive if you're going every day. But as it is, I could afford a nicer house and avoid most of the commute costs. It doesn't really work out that great otherwise.
- chvid 2y agoTake your hourly wage and calculate how much you could have earned instead of sitting in transport. From that find the most cost/earning-efficient place of staying. My guess is you will end up somewhere in London.
- mcherm 2y agoIf you are paid hourly and can adjust your number of hours this is a sensible way to compare. But many of us are paid a fixed salary. Also, many of us could potentially get work done while commuting.
- tonyedgecombe 2y ago>Also, many of us could potentially get work done while commuting. That's not much of a life though is it.
- michaelt 2y agoHave you ever flown with ryanair? The only people reliably getting work done on a ryanair flight are the pilots and cabin crew.
- whazor 2y agoJust wanted to say that the big plus of Ryanair is that the chairs are non adjustable. Which gives significantly more space than some other airlines.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- comonoid 2y agoBarcelona is not cheap anymore.
- stavros 2y agoI was about to say, and neither are the flights. Then again, nor is London.
- gargan 2y agoBut neither is London. Both London and Barcelona rents are up between 40-60% since the article was written as far as I can tell: https://www.catalannews.com/business/item/barcelona-rent-prices-first-quarter-1-july-2024 https://www.catalannews.com/business/item/barcelona-rent-pri... https://www.zoopla.co.uk/discover/property-news/average-rent-london/ https://www.zoopla.co.uk/discover/property-news/average-rent...
- garyclarke27 2y agoDaily commuting probably not practical since Brexit because of longer passport queues. I know quite a few Doctors who do a weekly commute to UK from Cascais, Lisbon were I live, they have a big house here and small apartment in London. Also many BA pilots live here, because of NHR low tax, they use budget airline (not BA) to fly into London whenever needed before long haul flights.
- stavros 2y agoGuys the author isn't actually proposing that this is a viable option to working, they're highlighting how absurd the rent disparity is, and how cheap the flights are. I'm really surprised that the comments here are seriously critiquing the viability of spending fourteen hours a day commuting.
- jack_riminton 2y agoYou're not seriously suggesting that HN commenters like to nitpick small details and miss the wood for the trees?
- fredrikholm 2y agoI don't know how many comments I've begun writing only to change my mind and not post precisely because how draining the phenomenon is. Especially tiring when one attempts to be cordial only to be met with further critique and (without non-verbal ques) what appears to be hostility.
- VieEnCode 2y agoI've often wondered why HN so often seems to prefer to prefer to upvote some tangential rabbit hole rather than discuss the topic in the article itself.
- jack_riminton 2y agoThey're the same people that do bike-shedding and code golf all day at work. I hate them with a febrile passion
- Cthulhu_ 2y agoIt was, this article is from 2013; the cheapest flights I can find now are twice as expensive round-trip, and will likely go up even further to discourage frequent flying to try and reduce emissions.
- creesch 2y ago
- reacharavindh 2y agoI wonder if it’ll be normalised in the future to live in a place like Barcelona and travel to a place like London once a week for two or three days for work and then go back to live in Barcelona. Perhaps a hostel like place in London to crash after work + Pub in those 3 work days, while enjoying a nice comfy house and local culture in Barcelona for the rest of the week..
- barceloni99 2y ago[dead]
- atemerev 2y agoYou have no say in it. All cities are open for everyone who have the legal right to go there and spend money.
- forgotoldacc 2y agoThat poster does have a say in it. They can vote for politicians who'll ban it. And if things boil over and their voices aren't heard, riots are very common in continental Europe. Particularly when flagrant wealth divides are involved. Talking down like that to locals really fans the flames of the latter solution. Probably not good to do it.
- atemerev 2y agoBan what? City-scale tourism and immigration? How? Passport controls on the city borders? Walls? We are not at this stage yet. If you live in a nice city (and Barcelona is a great city, truly a world's treasure), it attracts tourists, by definition. I don't think anything can be done about that (except maybe ban AirBnB and introduce hotel tax -- but they will just live in places nearby and drive in by cars). You can also of course make your city less nice (by riots, crime, graffiti, trash, whatever), but this is shooting oneself in a foot. The "problem" has no solution. Great cities are attractive, people want to go there, and have the legal right to. Locals can do things to regulate tourism by economic means, but you can't say "don't come", except on state level. The city is not your property.
- amunozo 2y agoAn apartment like that could cost 1500€ today. Also, flights are also more expensive.
- lewq 2y agoYeah but then you have to fly Ryanair Every. Day
- lifestyleguru 2y agoWould you like to buy a lottery ticket with it?
- delegate 2y agoThis article is from 2013 and it's not true anymore. Just did a search and the cheapest 3-bedroom flat in Les Corts area of Barcelona starts at 1500 EUR/month, compared to 680 EUR/month in the article. There are only 2 offers at this price, the rest start at 2000 EUR / month. Cheapest flight to London (and back) on same date (Nov 20) is now 76 EUR, compared to 34 EUR in the article. Interestingly, the prices in London seem to be around the same as in the article.
- eb0la 2y agoSalaries in Spain, are around the same, too.
- reedf1 2y agoI live in NW5 - the reason for the stable prices is that there was an episode of extreme house price growth in the area circa early 2010s that has completely flat lined, and in some cases, reversed. Some might argue this is a case of conscious organised de-gentrification by several London boroughs.
- lm28469 2y agoCheap and sunny places in Europe got extra fucked by airbnb, digital nomads and, more broadly, capitalism. Locals are still paid more or less the same as 10 years ago but housing grew 50-100%. Why would your rent a flat for 600 euros a month when you can get 100 euros per night from tourists
- cpursley 2y agoWhy does everyone seem to blame digital nomads - that seems lazy and probably not backed by numbers. I bet if you actually look into it, there’s way more retirees from northern European countries in the desirable sunny, warm places. And those ones actually have money to spend and buy property, etc. Also, if “capitalism” means “freedom of movement” of people and of money I think I’m gonna stick with that system versus the alternatives that we’ve seen play out… also, people do not wanna hear this ever - but the solution is often to build more housing, to build housing up (meaning vertical). For example, more people would be interested in moving out of London if housing was affordable.
- eb0la 2y agoSome teachers in Ibiza fly daily from Majorca because rental is too expensive. Of course it works because flights between the isles are subsidized by the goverment, but stuff like this happens. Link: (in spanish) https://www.periodicodeibiza.es/pitiusas/ibiza/2024/03/06/2119745/profesoras-mallorquinas-vienen-trabajar-ibiza-avion-cada-dia.html https://www.periodicodeibiza.es/pitiusas/ibiza/2024/03/06/21...
- oldpersonintx 2y ago[dead]
- mr_mitm 2y agoI get the point, but can Stansted really be considered as being in London? It sounds like a trick by Ryanair to make the airport sound more important than it is, similar to their airport Frankfurt-Hahn which arguably isn't anywhere near Frankfurt.
- frant-hartm 2y agoDepending on where you are going in London, flying to Stansted / Gatwick might be faster than to Heathrow or City.
- chx 2y agoOK, true but for City that's a really small part of London: the Totenham Hale train station and its immediate vicinity. It's 46 minutes from Totenham Hale to LCY and 34 to STN. Anything further into London will win for LCY.
- newaccount74 2y agoWe recently flew to Gatwick and I was pleasantly surpised how quick everything was. Barely any waiting times, the hardest part was figuring out which train to London needs what ticket.
- rounce 2y agoIt's in Essex, and the London moniker is silly but it's a 45min train ride to Liverpool St so about the same journey time as coming from Finchley in London zone 4 (even if it does cost 4x more each way).
- wtcactus 2y agoThis totals a commuting time of 9h a day - never-mind all the hassle. What are the renting prices for places in the UK that are 4.5h a drive/train away from London?
- barceloni99 2y ago[dead]
- kopirgan 2y agoLol I think once the high speed rail is laid across Malaysia there could be similar logic for living anywhere along and commute to Singapore for work. Rate disparities are far worse.
- delta_p_delta_x 2y agoPeople already commute from Johor—not just JB, but further afield too. But yes, stops along the Singapore-KL HSR route will get very gentrified, methinks, as rich Singaporeans move across the border for cheaper housing and lower costs of living.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- seanhunter 2y agoJoking aside before the jubilee line went to Canary Wharf (out in the East of London) I used to work there as a contractor. A new guy from Glasgow[1] got hired and for the first couple of weeks while he found a place in London he commuted by plane from Glasgow every day. He got a place in West London. He found it had been quicker each way to fly than to get from West to East London, and of course the coat of living in London is way higher so the difference would have more than paid for the flights if he had stayed. It’s no longer the case as there is a tube the whole way. [1] in Scotland, the opposite side of the UK.
- BerislavLopac 2y agoConsidering this was before September 1999, the airport wait times were also much shorter, making this more viable. These days, getting to the airport less than 90 minutes before the flight is cutting it pretty close.
- seanhunter 2y agoYup it was. Also there is a (very small) airport right at Canary Wharf called "London City Airport" that has a direct flight to Glasgow so it was pretty much an ideal case.
- lifestyleguru 2y agoWell 2013... "good old times"... which I missed because had no money then. It's not true anymore as rent prices caught up in basically every marginally attractive location within EU, while salaries haven't. In particular case of Spain, Brits played shameful role in wrecking their housing market.
- jeanlucas 2y agoTitle is missing: (2013)
- alanl 2y agoI worked in London in the mid 00's with someone who did this. - He worked 2 Days at London Office, 3 days WFH in Spain. - He would book his flights about 3 weeks in advance and stay in a cheap hotel for 1 night. - As a contractor/sole trader, he could offset some of the costs against his taxes. If I remember correctly, his reasoning was that the combination of costs, better weather, and being close to friends/family made it worthwhile.
- wdb 2y agoYou should check how much a taxi ride is from like Suffolk to London. Last time it was nearly £200
- rasz 2y ago2013. It was crazy flying to Norway for lunch at 10Euro round trip.
- dang 2y agoDiscussed at the time: Cheaper to rent in Barcelona and commute to London - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6617319 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6617319 - Oct 2013 (270 comments)
- madcaptenor 2y agoI've seen this with other city pairs - for example there was news of an intern doing Charleston (South Carolina) - Newark (New Jersey) that made the rounds in 2023. https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/15/business/tiktok-summer-intern-commute/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/15/business/tiktok-summer-intern... But her internship only required one day a week in person, so this isn't the same as a daily commute, and would be less viable now with increased RTO most places.
- lazyant 2y agoCanadian example, this year https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/ubc-student-flying-commute-calgary-vancouver https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/ubc-student-flying-commute-c...
- gnabgib 2y agoNot a great example. An Air Canada student pass is 6 flights for for $1200 (not terrible value).. so $400 a round trip. With classes twice a week that's $800/week, $2400 a month, or $9600 for a 12 week semester (the shortest in Canada, many are 14).. excluding finals (+1 return flight, + hotel nights or inconveniencing friends) 4 months of rent in Vancouver at $2000 is... $8000. $1600 more, plus the utilities he pays his parents, plus time wasted travelling, plus bonus flight at finals and hotel nights (possibly offset by skipping a day during the semester).
- metalman 2y agohour for hour, it is cheaper to fly from Nova Scotia to Cuba or Venezuela,etc than it is to talk on the phone,thats just the flying time.Need to find out about accomodations, food and travel. Self employed, so making excuses and begging off for Jan/Feb is looking more optional, or the optimum option.