5 ms·

You know how wired earbuds always, always get tangled when you place them in a drawer or your pocket or something for few seconds? Do not wind them around your

by wruza 2y ago

You know how wired earbuds always, always get tangled when you place them in a drawer or your pocket or something for few seconds? Do not wind them around your hand, this creates a curling force that makes them tangle. It’s a fundamental symmetry effect in action, with which you turn a straight line into a knot. Try the same with a flexible ruler tape and you’ll see how much it twists, unless you counter-twist every loop. Instead just gather the wire into a flat compressed /\/\…/\ form and put it there. The worst thing that will happen now is one accidental semi-knot that is trivial to shake away. Now I wonder how that applies to code, maybe we’re onto something here.

xorcist 2y ago
Roll it up, just like you would roll back toilet paper on its roll, or sewing thread. Then you can roll them around your hand with no tangling issues. Just like you would with a garden hose, or a rope on a sailing boat. Tangled ropes is a potential problem there so no one would flail your hands about and hope for the best. Instead you roll neatly.
lloeki 2y ago
> unless you counter-twist every loop. That's the whole trick: don't wind, twist. Observe: take a short cable (or a piece of thread), hold it straight at each end with two fingers by the wire; at one end, roll the cable along its main axis between the two fingers; a loop forms, purely through created stress. Now, with a longer cable you just accumulate such loops by iterating over the length; stress can be relieved by accompanying the cable while twisting: there should never be any resistance felt. If done correctly the folded cable should be able to lay flat on a table and not move a millimetre. Note that there's a "natural" radius that is best respected. One could stack a bunch of those in a box and they basically won't mix unless massively shaken, but to make sure one can tie a single point of the loop to eliminate lateral slack. Source: folded a cumulated thousands of kilometres of usb/ethernet/XLR/6.35" cables over the years, packed together in bags or boxes.
- wruza 2y ago
  While this works, it’s mostly useful for storing naturally curled wires/hoses. The downside is it becomes twisted again by pulling straight. The “accordion” method actually counteracts knotting because it forms a sort of an amorphous spring that is unstable outwards rather than inwards (careless winding) or just being stable (twisting). I find it more useful as it never twists and tends to decay into a straight wire by itself. But ymmw, cause it tends to be all over the place in your pocket/drawer/etc. also doesn’t work for hoses cause they deteriorate at sharp folds. The moral is just know your methods and where they apply and if that suits you the best.
- marcosdumay 2y ago
  You can also wind it while twisting the remaining of the cable on the opposite direction. On a short cable like a headphone string, this is just a matter of holding the cable up so the plug can rotate freely. Then you can do anything, you won't accumulate stress. (On a longer cable that means putting temporary stress on the non-wound part of the cable. If it's too long, you need to remove it from time to time.) Anyway, I've just printed a ton of cable-winders, for all sizes and calipers, and never thought about it again.
mceachen 2y ago
Gaffers, sailors, and kite flyers will teach you the “over under” method, discussed here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21581553 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21581553
- bloopernova 2y ago
  Huh, so I have it half right when I quarter-twist the cable so it naturally forms the next loop of the bundle. I just had the "under" part missing. That is a great tip: "hold the loop in left hand, cable in right, both palms up, then bring thumbs together to create the 'under' loop"
eternityforest 2y ago
Is this why over-under coiling is so effective at preventing tangles?

by wruza 2y ago

xorcist 2y ago

Roll it up, just like you would roll back toilet paper on its roll, or sewing thread. Then you can roll them around your hand with no tangling issues. Just like you would with a garden hose, or a rope on a sailing boat. Tangled ropes is a potential problem there so no one would flail your hands about and hope for the best. Instead you roll neatly.

lloeki 2y ago

> unless you counter-twist every loop. That's the whole trick: don't wind, twist. Observe: take a short cable (or a piece of thread), hold it straight at each end with two fingers by the wire; at one end, roll the cable along its main axis between the two fingers; a loop forms, purely through created stress. Now, with a longer cable you just accumulate such loops by iterating over the length; stress can be relieved by accompanying the cable while twisting: there should never be any resistance felt. If done correctly the folded cable should be able to lay flat on a table and not move a millimetre. Note that there's a "natural" radius that is best respected. One could stack a bunch of those in a box and they basically won't mix unless massively shaken, but to make sure one can tie a single point of the loop to eliminate lateral slack. Source: folded a cumulated thousands of kilometres of usb/ethernet/XLR/6.35" cables over the years, packed together in bags or boxes.

wruza 2y ago
While this works, it’s mostly useful for storing naturally curled wires/hoses. The downside is it becomes twisted again by pulling straight. The “accordion” method actually counteracts knotting because it forms a sort of an amorphous spring that is unstable outwards rather than inwards (careless winding) or just being stable (twisting). I find it more useful as it never twists and tends to decay into a straight wire by itself. But ymmw, cause it tends to be all over the place in your pocket/drawer/etc. also doesn’t work for hoses cause they deteriorate at sharp folds. The moral is just know your methods and where they apply and if that suits you the best.
marcosdumay 2y ago
You can also wind it while twisting the remaining of the cable on the opposite direction. On a short cable like a headphone string, this is just a matter of holding the cable up so the plug can rotate freely. Then you can do anything, you won't accumulate stress. (On a longer cable that means putting temporary stress on the non-wound part of the cable. If it's too long, you need to remove it from time to time.) Anyway, I've just printed a ton of cable-winders, for all sizes and calipers, and never thought about it again.

mceachen 2y ago

Gaffers, sailors, and kite flyers will teach you the “over under” method, discussed here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21581553 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21581553

bloopernova 2y ago
Huh, so I have it half right when I quarter-twist the cable so it naturally forms the next loop of the bundle. I just had the "under" part missing. That is a great tip: "hold the loop in left hand, cable in right, both palms up, then bring thumbs together to create the 'under' loop"

eternityforest 2y ago

Is this why over-under coiling is so effective at preventing tangles?