4 ms·

A city should be capable of rolling its own competently at less cost than it takes to engage Cubic to do so. Cubic is setting things up real nice to have exact

A city should be capable of rolling its own competently at less cost than it takes to engage Cubic to do so. Cubic is setting things up real nice to have exact data about a lot of peoples travels in cities all around the world. That could be some pretty valuable data.

fastball 2y ago
Why should a city be able to do something more efficiently/effectively than a company which exists for that purpose?
- ruthmarx 2y ago
  They could draw from a lot of people already employed, and they have no incentive to mark up the price.
  - chii 2y ago
    > They could draw from a lot of people already employed which means the city would need to pay above the existing wage for those people, since they're _already_ employed and would have no incentive to jump. > no incentive to mark up the price and have no incentive to try to save money or find novel efficiencies, since the money spent is not "theirs".
    - ruthmarx 2y ago
      > which means the city would need to pay above the existing wage for those people, since they're _already_ employed and would have no incentive to jump. What? I'm talking about salaried employees already working for the city. > and have no incentive to try to save money or find novel efficiencies, since the money spent is not "theirs". Even if they are not trying to actively save money, they are not trying to actively make a profit so it would still be cheaper.
      - fastball 2y ago
        That's... not how it works. You can't just throw people at a problem and assume they will get it done for some fixed cost. Experience and existing infrastructure and solutions actually matter, and can make something significantly cheaper than building from scratch. Let's say you want to bake a loaf of bread. You're not a baker, so you don't have any of the skills, ingredients, or tools needed to bake this loaf. Also, you only want to bake the one loaf (just like building out a contactless ticket system is a single project that shouldn't need to be done over and over again). Which would you expect to be cheaper and faster: 1. buying everything you need to bake a loaf of bread and doing it yourself or 2. walking to the nearest bakery and buying a loaf there. Keep in mind that the bakery needs to make a profit, and you do not – so there is no way the bakery will end up being cheaper, right? And surely the seasoned professionals (who already have the necessary tools and ingredients) won't be faster at baking the loaf than you, a complete novice without those things.
        ruthmarx 2y ago
        > That's... not how it works. If often is. Organizations with preexisting staff and knowledge frequently implement things instead of outsourcing. > Experience and existing infrastructure and solutions actually matter, and can make something significantly cheaper than building from scratch. Coming up with a secure fare payment and tracking system isn't some cutting edge concept. Work would still be outsourced where necessary, like ordering or manufacturing the hardware. > You're not a baker, so you don't have any of the skills, ingredients, or tools needed to bake this loaf. That's where the analogy fails. Municipal governments would have people with the skills, acquiring ingredients and tools could be outsourced as needed, but 'baking a loaf of bread' could still be mostly an internal project.
        fastball 2y ago
        Why would a city that has never built a contactless ticket gate system have experience building a contactless ticket gate system?
        2y ago
- blitzar 2y ago
  They could seed a company that exists solely for the purpose and wind it up at the completion of the project. Nevertheless a city is just a company that exists for a purpose.
  - fastball 2y ago
    Sure, except a city is a company that has never done that thing before (vs a company that has done it many times) and a city lacks external motivators like "competition" which drive increased efficiency / reduced cost.
    - ruthmarx 2y ago
      > city lacks external motivators like "competition" which drive increased efficiency / reduced cost. Which is negated by the city not trying to make a profit and marking up the cost.

fastball 2y ago

Why should a city be able to do something more efficiently/effectively than a company which exists for that purpose?

ruthmarx 2y ago
They could draw from a lot of people already employed, and they have no incentive to mark up the price.
- chii 2y ago
  > They could draw from a lot of people already employed which means the city would need to pay above the existing wage for those people, since they're _already_ employed and would have no incentive to jump. > no incentive to mark up the price and have no incentive to try to save money or find novel efficiencies, since the money spent is not "theirs".
  - ruthmarx 2y ago
    > which means the city would need to pay above the existing wage for those people, since they're _already_ employed and would have no incentive to jump. What? I'm talking about salaried employees already working for the city. > and have no incentive to try to save money or find novel efficiencies, since the money spent is not "theirs". Even if they are not trying to actively save money, they are not trying to actively make a profit so it would still be cheaper.
    - fastball 2y ago
      That's... not how it works. You can't just throw people at a problem and assume they will get it done for some fixed cost. Experience and existing infrastructure and solutions actually matter, and can make something significantly cheaper than building from scratch. Let's say you want to bake a loaf of bread. You're not a baker, so you don't have any of the skills, ingredients, or tools needed to bake this loaf. Also, you only want to bake the one loaf (just like building out a contactless ticket system is a single project that shouldn't need to be done over and over again). Which would you expect to be cheaper and faster: 1. buying everything you need to bake a loaf of bread and doing it yourself or 2. walking to the nearest bakery and buying a loaf there. Keep in mind that the bakery needs to make a profit, and you do not – so there is no way the bakery will end up being cheaper, right? And surely the seasoned professionals (who already have the necessary tools and ingredients) won't be faster at baking the loaf than you, a complete novice without those things.
      - ruthmarx 2y ago
        > That's... not how it works. If often is. Organizations with preexisting staff and knowledge frequently implement things instead of outsourcing. > Experience and existing infrastructure and solutions actually matter, and can make something significantly cheaper than building from scratch. Coming up with a secure fare payment and tracking system isn't some cutting edge concept. Work would still be outsourced where necessary, like ordering or manufacturing the hardware. > You're not a baker, so you don't have any of the skills, ingredients, or tools needed to bake this loaf. That's where the analogy fails. Municipal governments would have people with the skills, acquiring ingredients and tools could be outsourced as needed, but 'baking a loaf of bread' could still be mostly an internal project.
        fastball 2y ago
        Why would a city that has never built a contactless ticket gate system have experience building a contactless ticket gate system?
        2y ago
blitzar 2y ago
They could seed a company that exists solely for the purpose and wind it up at the completion of the project. Nevertheless a city is just a company that exists for a purpose.
- fastball 2y ago
  Sure, except a city is a company that has never done that thing before (vs a company that has done it many times) and a city lacks external motivators like "competition" which drive increased efficiency / reduced cost.
  - ruthmarx 2y ago
    > city lacks external motivators like "competition" which drive increased efficiency / reduced cost. Which is negated by the city not trying to make a profit and marking up the cost.