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> Modern iPhones enforce the lockout period in the secure enclave hardware so this is no longer something Apple could even possibly assist with. You mean in th

> Modern iPhones enforce the lockout period in the secure enclave hardware so this is no longer something Apple could even possibly assist with. You mean in the sillicon itself? If it's done in the Secure Enclave's firmware then Apple could assist with unlocking.

kbolino 2y ago
I would think that the secure enclave controls the device (un-)locking process and also wouldn't install OTA firmware updates nor accept commands from USB-connected peripherals while the device is locked.
- altairprime 2y ago
  Settings > Passcode > Allow access when locked: [_] Accessories. Off by default, providing a one hour timeout since last phone unlock; or instantly, upon biometric rejection or after holding power-volume-up to reach the power off menu. Macs are typically enabling an equivalent to this by default as well now, as of the latest macOS update.
MBCook 2y ago
That’s what I meant by this: > …sign tampered with firmware that would allow the decryption without user authorization. Apple wrote the firmware for everything. I assume they could write firmware to not need authorization, embedded in a copy of iOS, and sign everything so it could be installed on a phone through DFU. They have been unwilling to do so. I think they’re right not to. But I suspect it is technically possible.
- tmottabr 2y ago
  But if court ordered then to do so they would have to.. In the previous case law enforcement retracted the request because they found an alternative.. If the alternative stop working i bet you they will go after Apple in courts again..
  - wobfan 2y ago
    There have been multiple credible sources with internal documents claiming that iPhone with the current firmware (>17) can’t be hacked currently. It’s in constant flux, obviously, but iOS is very advanced on this aspect. Android phones on the other hand, apart from the Pixels >6, are all hackable with appropriate tooling.
    - fsflover 2y ago
      > multiple credible sources with internal documents claiming that iPhone with the current firmware (>17) can’t be hacked currently You can't prove a negative.
    - tmottabr 2y ago
      As far as i remember there is a single leaked document about a specific celebrite version that had iOS 17 marked as already supported for some devices up to version 17.0.3, versions 17.1 to 17.3.1 as coming soon and 17.4 as in research.. And that document is from last April, 7 months ago, no one really knows how things progressed after that.. Best assumption to make is that all those versions are supported by now.. support for iOS 18 could be available or not, we do not know.. So again i will assume it is supported until the opposite is proved.. But all the latest iPhones in latest iOS versions were only supported in AFU, that apple is handling with this reset feature, or IPR, that require USB being unlocked and is extremely time sensitive as there are already defenses in place..
adastra22 2y ago
The whole point of a Secure Enclave is that you can’t perform such an update without wiping the data.
- HHad3 2y ago
  You can update SEP firmware, but only by providing your PIN. This is why iOS prompts for you PIN again before updating. This still effectively prevents Apple from adding backdoor to be installed on phones the user can no longer access.
  - adastra22 2y ago
    Depends on the enclave. I don't know Apple's, but the ones I worked with would wipe secure data on a firmware update.

kbolino 2y ago

I would think that the secure enclave controls the device (un-)locking process and also wouldn't install OTA firmware updates nor accept commands from USB-connected peripherals while the device is locked.

altairprime 2y ago
Settings > Passcode > Allow access when locked: [_] Accessories. Off by default, providing a one hour timeout since last phone unlock; or instantly, upon biometric rejection or after holding power-volume-up to reach the power off menu. Macs are typically enabling an equivalent to this by default as well now, as of the latest macOS update.

MBCook 2y ago

That’s what I meant by this: > …sign tampered with firmware that would allow the decryption without user authorization. Apple wrote the firmware for everything. I assume they could write firmware to not need authorization, embedded in a copy of iOS, and sign everything so it could be installed on a phone through DFU. They have been unwilling to do so. I think they’re right not to. But I suspect it is technically possible.

tmottabr 2y ago
But if court ordered then to do so they would have to.. In the previous case law enforcement retracted the request because they found an alternative.. If the alternative stop working i bet you they will go after Apple in courts again..
- wobfan 2y ago
  There have been multiple credible sources with internal documents claiming that iPhone with the current firmware (>17) can’t be hacked currently. It’s in constant flux, obviously, but iOS is very advanced on this aspect. Android phones on the other hand, apart from the Pixels >6, are all hackable with appropriate tooling.
  - fsflover 2y ago
    > multiple credible sources with internal documents claiming that iPhone with the current firmware (>17) can’t be hacked currently You can't prove a negative.
  - tmottabr 2y ago
    As far as i remember there is a single leaked document about a specific celebrite version that had iOS 17 marked as already supported for some devices up to version 17.0.3, versions 17.1 to 17.3.1 as coming soon and 17.4 as in research.. And that document is from last April, 7 months ago, no one really knows how things progressed after that.. Best assumption to make is that all those versions are supported by now.. support for iOS 18 could be available or not, we do not know.. So again i will assume it is supported until the opposite is proved.. But all the latest iPhones in latest iOS versions were only supported in AFU, that apple is handling with this reset feature, or IPR, that require USB being unlocked and is extremely time sensitive as there are already defenses in place..

adastra22 2y ago

The whole point of a Secure Enclave is that you can’t perform such an update without wiping the data.

HHad3 2y ago
You can update SEP firmware, but only by providing your PIN. This is why iOS prompts for you PIN again before updating. This still effectively prevents Apple from adding backdoor to be installed on phones the user can no longer access.
- adastra22 2y ago
  Depends on the enclave. I don't know Apple's, but the ones I worked with would wipe secure data on a firmware update.