4 ms·

> On Windows land you have something similar I'm still waiting to hear about a kernel-level exploit that starts with Visicalc or similar.

Narishma 2y ago
Visicalc doesn't run on recent versions of Windows without emulation.
- greenavocado 2y ago
  I guess it is a form of emulation... but You can run 16-bit Windows (Windows 1.x, 2.x, 3.0, 3.1, etc.) on 64-bit Windows with https://github.com/otya128/winevdm https://github.com/otya128/winevdm I got Microsoft Encarta 98 to work on Windows 11 this way
  - asveikau 2y ago
    Encarta 98 has to be 32 bit... Win16 was pretty dead for new products by that time. Though it's conceivable that an installer could start off with 16 bit code to show an error message that you need Windows 95 ... Edit: it seems Encarta 95 could run on win16, but Encarta 98 required win95 or nt4
saagarjha 2y ago
Windows has far worse. Injecting code into other processes is routine and almost impossible to get rid of.
- IcyWindows 2y ago
  I've never heard of that from store apps
  - tokinonagare 2y ago
    The store which doesn't even provide one of the most useful Microsoft product (Visual Studio)?
    - virtue3 2y ago
      Yeah. That really doesn’t need to be from the store. I really hate going through the Apple Store to download Xcode. We all know how to download software. I’d rather go through a dev portal than a consumer portal. YMMV
      - galad87 2y ago
        Xcode can be downloaded from developer.apple.com too, it's not an App Store exclusive.
      - nier 2y ago
        Command line: https://github.com/XcodesOrg/xcodes https://github.com/XcodesOrg/xcodes GUI: https://github.com/XcodesOrg/XcodesApp https://github.com/XcodesOrg/XcodesApp
      - vetinari 2y ago
        > I’d rather go through a dev portal than a consumer portal. You actually can, alongside with conmand line tools, additional xcode utils, debug kernels et cetera.
- larodi 2y ago
  Readers here are all very likely to appreciate some links alongside statements, cause really this is a sensitive topic. Both statements need certain context as it seems it’s not the universal understanding of what goes on and how often.
  - davidczech 2y ago
    SetWindowsHookEx is a blast.
  - mike_hearn 2y ago
    Not sure it can be proven with citations but it's well known that process injection is widely used on Windows. GPU drivers are known to do it. Utilities have historically often injected code into Explorer. Raymond Chen has written in the past about this problem and how hard it made it to evolve the platform.
    - ori_b 2y ago
      > Raymond Chen has written in the past about this problem That would be a citation. Do you have a link?
      - Rexxar 2y ago
        You install tortoiseSVN or something similar, look at explorer.exe process or any process that use a standard "Open File" widget, and you will see some dll from the utility loaded by the process. (Easy to see with process explorer from sysinternals)
        iggldiggl 2y ago
        I think tortoiseSVN and consorts are "just" a shell extension, though, which is an officially supported concept, even if that means that potentially any random software using the standard file dialogues ends up loading your DLL, too.
      - jasomill 2y ago

Narishma 2y ago

Visicalc doesn't run on recent versions of Windows without emulation.

greenavocado 2y ago
I guess it is a form of emulation... but You can run 16-bit Windows (Windows 1.x, 2.x, 3.0, 3.1, etc.) on 64-bit Windows with https://github.com/otya128/winevdm https://github.com/otya128/winevdm I got Microsoft Encarta 98 to work on Windows 11 this way
- asveikau 2y ago
  Encarta 98 has to be 32 bit... Win16 was pretty dead for new products by that time. Though it's conceivable that an installer could start off with 16 bit code to show an error message that you need Windows 95 ... Edit: it seems Encarta 95 could run on win16, but Encarta 98 required win95 or nt4

saagarjha 2y ago

Windows has far worse. Injecting code into other processes is routine and almost impossible to get rid of.

IcyWindows 2y ago
I've never heard of that from store apps
- tokinonagare 2y ago
  The store which doesn't even provide one of the most useful Microsoft product (Visual Studio)?
  - virtue3 2y ago
    Yeah. That really doesn’t need to be from the store. I really hate going through the Apple Store to download Xcode. We all know how to download software. I’d rather go through a dev portal than a consumer portal. YMMV
    - galad87 2y ago
      Xcode can be downloaded from developer.apple.com too, it's not an App Store exclusive.
    - nier 2y ago
      Command line: https://github.com/XcodesOrg/xcodes https://github.com/XcodesOrg/xcodes GUI: https://github.com/XcodesOrg/XcodesApp https://github.com/XcodesOrg/XcodesApp
    - vetinari 2y ago
      > I’d rather go through a dev portal than a consumer portal. You actually can, alongside with conmand line tools, additional xcode utils, debug kernels et cetera.
larodi 2y ago
Readers here are all very likely to appreciate some links alongside statements, cause really this is a sensitive topic. Both statements need certain context as it seems it’s not the universal understanding of what goes on and how often.
- davidczech 2y ago
  SetWindowsHookEx is a blast.
- mike_hearn 2y ago
  Not sure it can be proven with citations but it's well known that process injection is widely used on Windows. GPU drivers are known to do it. Utilities have historically often injected code into Explorer. Raymond Chen has written in the past about this problem and how hard it made it to evolve the platform.
  - ori_b 2y ago
    > Raymond Chen has written in the past about this problem That would be a citation. Do you have a link?
    - Rexxar 2y ago
      You install tortoiseSVN or something similar, look at explorer.exe process or any process that use a standard "Open File" widget, and you will see some dll from the utility loaded by the process. (Easy to see with process explorer from sysinternals)
      - iggldiggl 2y ago
        I think tortoiseSVN and consorts are "just" a shell extension, though, which is an officially supported concept, even if that means that potentially any random software using the standard file dialogues ends up loading your DLL, too.
    - jasomill 2y ago