8 ms·

One of my favorite papers is "A simple and convenient synthesis of pseudoephedrine from N-methylamphetamine" [1]. This is a satirical paper. Because pseudoephe

by kens 2y ago

One of my favorite papers is "A simple and convenient synthesis of pseudoephedrine from N-methylamphetamine" [1]. This is a satirical paper. Because pseudoephedrine (i.e. the good decongestant) is very difficult to obtain due to restrictions, but "N-methylamphetamine can be procured at almost any time on short notice", the paper describes how to synthesize pseudoephedrine from meth with a procedure that looks valid. [1] https://improbable.com/airchives/paperair/volume19/v19i3/Pseudoephedrine.pdf https://improbable.com/airchives/paperair/volume19/v19i3/Pse...

hansvm 2y ago
I found out recently that you don't just need a decent government ID; it needs to be from the state you're purchasing the Sudafed from, because apparently each state administers its own database. If you run out and have a persistent cough (weakened immune system from not licking doorknobs the last few years of covid, or so do the doctor says) from a common cold while on vacation, you're shit out of luck unless you go back home or you and an accomplice are willing to procure your cough medicine with their license.
- randrus 2y ago
  Seems like it varies by state - I’ve purchased Sudafed in at least two states other than my own.
  - numbsafari 2y ago
    Same here.
    - schmidtleonard 2y ago
      Me too.
- Gibbon1 2y ago
  My WAT. Refused sale of Sudafed because my license was expired. Apparently I accidentally tossed my new license and kept the old one. Doh! However they happily refilled my schedule III meds with the expired license. As I said WAT.
- nfw2 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - EdwardDiego 2y ago
    Adderall is a 3:1 dextroamphetamine/levoamphetamine mix. Methamphetamine is a whole other level of stimulant. > amphetamine habits in kids that have trouble focusing in school. 1) Do you have evidence that Adderall at therapeutic dosages is anywhere near as addictive as methamphetamine at recreational dosages? 2) Yeah, ADHD makes it real hard to focus at school. I never graduated from high school, and I dropped out of university as an adult student without even completing one year, thanks to untreated ADHD. Not to mention the impulsive behaviour, the inability to stick at boring things etc. etc. It's not great in our society. You're implicitly minimising the very real impact of ADHD, that's not super great. In fact, one of the biggest issues for people finally being treated for ADHD as adults is the grieving process around "What my life could've been if my parents hadn't believed that ADHD wasn't real and my issues in school and my 'disruptiveness' was solely due to 'food intolerances', because my Mom read a magazine article about it once, then paid a quack to stick a probe in my ear, one on my finger, and then rub food on my skin while looking at a galvanometer making 'hmmm' noises sagely." 3) You know there's been Adderall shortages in the USA recently due to DEA manufacturing limitations right? So it's not like they're just throwing out to kids like it's a lolly scramble. Anyway, it's about as ironic as 10,000 spoons when all you need a knife. That is, not at all.
    - NBJack 2y ago
      I think the parent post is more likely alluding to the abuse of the medication, particularly in higher learning institutions. https://psych.wisc.edu/news/easy-access-pressure-on-students-contributes-to-increase-in-non-prescribed-adderall-use/#:~:text=The%20rise%20in%20illegal%20Adderall,keep%20up%20with%20their%20peers https://psych.wisc.edu/news/easy-access-pressure-on-students.... Aderrall is a Schedule II drug. This is the same category as oxycodone and fentanyl. https://www.therecoveryvillage.com/adderall-addiction/adhd-and-adderall/ https://www.therecoveryvillage.com/adderall-addiction/adhd-a...
      - 2y ago
- pdonis 2y ago
  > you don't just need a decent government ID; it needs to be from the state you're purchasing the Sudafed from The FDA rule on this [1] doesn't appear to be quite that strict: it says the ID can be "a photo identification card issued by the State or the Federal Government or a document that is considered acceptable by the seller". It doesn't explicitly say it has to be from the same state as the one in which you are buying the medication, and it leaves the seller some latitude in what to accept. Possibly some states have more restrictive rules. Or particular sellers might be more leery about what they are willing to accept. [1] https://www.fda.gov/drugs/information-drug-class/legal-requirements-sale-and-purchase-drug-products-containing-pseudoephedrine-ephedrine-and https://www.fda.gov/drugs/information-drug-class/legal-requi...
  - _moof 2y ago
    The FDA rule doesn't restrict the IDs but the phrase "that is considered acceptable by the seller" lets the pharmacy put any restrictions in place they want. They can tell you it has to be hot pink and glow-in-the-dark and you've got no choice but to deal with it.
    - arcticbull 2y ago
      While true as long as they're in compliance with the law, wouldn't they want to sell all the Sudafed they can? They can deny service to anyone for pretty much any reason. No shirt, no shoes, no Sudafed or anything else. So yeah, but in reality it isn't aligned with their interests and if they don't want to serve you they can always find a different justification.
      - safety1st 2y ago
        Maybe they want that, maybe they don't. Retail drug stores in the US are an oligopoly, that industry may not be a monopoly (yet) but they don't function under perfect competition. Maybe if you're the management or the shareholders of a retail drug chain you're just kind of shrugging your shoulders and working on the next merger at this point since the fewer competitors you have, the less hard you have to work for the customer's dollar.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- seattle_spring 2y ago
  That's not universally applicable, as I've purchased it in Washington plenty of times with an Oregon ID.
- bigfatkitten 2y ago
  I've purchased Sudafed in Nevada with a foreign drivers' license with no issues.
- esperent 2y ago
  Here in Vietnam it's completely impossible to get pseudoephedrine at all and I think it's the same in all Asian countries. I even resorted to trying to buy some ephedra tea (Chinese medicinal herb from which ephedrine was first discovered). I ordered a box of tea bags from Shopee.vn and rather amusingly received an envelope with the amount I had paid including shipping in cash and an apology letter saying they could no longer sell this herb and please don't leave a bad review. However, a few months earlier due to a Google translate mixup where I thought I was ordering peppermint oil, I got 100ml of sassafras oil [0]. It's a precursor to MDMA and at least as restricted as pseudoephedrine. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safrole https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safrole
  - exe34 2y ago
    just been banned in the UK. was the only thing that worked on my allergies. edit: my bad, no it's codeine linctus that was banned, there was talk of making pseudoephedrine prescription only but that hasn't gone through.
    - pj1115 2y ago
      Pseudoephedrine, banned? That's news to me, I bought some OTC a couple of weeks ago.
  - angry_octet 2y ago
    It's readily available in Thailand and Indonesia. You can get it mixed with paracetamol OTC in Singapore, but almost everything in Singapore requires a prescription (even e.g. throat lozenges) so find a doctor if you're staying for a while. In Malaysia you need a prescription.
- cowsandmilk 2y ago
  I’ve definitely purchased Sudafed in Seattle with a Virginia Drivers License.
- Pxtl 2y ago
  Once again, big thanks to paranoid "mark of the beast" conspiracy theorists with funny ideas about federal government IDs and digital IDs. We have the technology. "Behind the counter" could just mean a vending machine with good ID tech instead of queuing up for an overworked pharmacist behind a dozen people.
echelon 2y ago
Pseudoephedrine being pulled from the shelves is one of the biggest crimes of our time. Pseudoephedrine should be easy and plentiful to obtain. I don't care if people use it to make meth. What they do in their private time doesn't concern me. Not being able to get Sudafed when I'm sick kills me. It's not like those people won't be able to get meth some other way. We let people buy cars and cause 43,000 automobile deaths a year. People should be able to live life without stuffy noses. Maybe license people to buy meds and take it away if they abuse it? That's better than the draconian system we have now. And don't get me started on ADHD medication and their shortages. Edit: and there are 178,000 alcohol related deaths per year in the US. If you're going to allow that without prohibition, then please let us unstuff our noses. I'm tired of living in a nanny state when we let people buy and own guns and swords and flamethrowers. Simply hiking on a mountain can kill you. Must we install guardrails on all the high places? It's not that bad of a negative externality. Honestly. Not relative to all the other ones we've deemed acceptable. This is weird picking and choosing that doesn't make sense.
- loopdoend 2y ago
  It is even easier to get in Singapore.
  - radicality 2y ago
    Really? As in, in spite of how bonkers the overall import rules in Singapore are? I just travelled there few weeks ago, and the government websites made it sound like it’s best to just not bring any pills at all (or chewing gum). - Tool you can to use to check active ingredients and whether its allowed: https://www.hsa.gov.sg/personal-medication/check-requirements https://www.hsa.gov.sg/personal-medication/check-requirement... - Anything that might be controlled/require prescription, have to apply for permit it to bring it: https://www.hsa.gov.sg/personal-medication/submit-application-for-approval-to-bring-in-personal-medications-(new) https://www.hsa.gov.sg/personal-medication/submit-applicatio... - They provide a tool to show illegal health products. Better not bring one of them: https://oscar.hsa.gov.sg/Publication/ahpdm/faces/AHPPublication.jspx https://oscar.hsa.gov.sg/Publication/ahpdm/faces/AHPPublicat...
  - 2y ago
cyberax 2y ago
How did I miss this article before?!? Love it! > Other side effects may include violent urges or, similarly, the urge to be successful in business or finance. ... > We expect that the simultaneous trends of restricting pseudoephedrine sales while N-methylamphetamine becomes less expensive and of higher purity will make the methods presented here increasingly attractive.
LM358 2y ago
"simple and convenient" does a lot of heavy lifting in this paper - n-BuLi, chromium hexacarbonyl and MoOPH (had to look that one up!) is not something you find outside of a well equipped lab and shouldn't be touched by anyone who isn't highly experienced.
winocm 2y ago
Fun fact, there (was?) is a isomer of methamphetamine that is actually over the counter, levomethamphetamine was often found in Vicks brand inhalers, though they appear to be discontinued, being replaced with a ‘non-medicated’ version. There are apparently generic inhalers that still do contain it though. https://www.science.org/content/blog-post/other-methamphetamine https://www.science.org/content/blog-post/other-methamphetam...
- stzsch 2y ago
  See also selegiline, which partially metabolizes to levoamphetamine and levomethamphetamine. Not OTC though (antidepressant).
  - winocm 2y ago
    Oh man, I have fun stories about selegiline.
    - hyperdimension 2y ago
      Come on, you can't be vague like that and expect no one to ask. Do tell!
      - winocm 2y ago
        If you really would like to know and enjoy mortal suffering, just contact me privately.
hinkley 2y ago
The problem I found was that nobody wanted to deal with the database after a certain time in the evening. Odds are good you don’t admit you’re coming down with something until after work. Or at least admit to yourself that medicine would be helpful. So by the time you see you’re out of Sudafed or can’t find the old pack, it’s often too late to go to the store to get a new one before morning.
ykonstant 2y ago
That's actually hilarious.

by kens 2y ago

hansvm 2y ago

I found out recently that you don't just need a decent government ID; it needs to be from the state you're purchasing the Sudafed from, because apparently each state administers its own database. If you run out and have a persistent cough (weakened immune system from not licking doorknobs the last few years of covid, or so do the doctor says) from a common cold while on vacation, you're shit out of luck unless you go back home or you and an accomplice are willing to procure your cough medicine with their license.

randrus 2y ago
Seems like it varies by state - I’ve purchased Sudafed in at least two states other than my own.
- numbsafari 2y ago
  Same here.
  - schmidtleonard 2y ago
    Me too.
Gibbon1 2y ago
My WAT. Refused sale of Sudafed because my license was expired. Apparently I accidentally tossed my new license and kept the old one. Doh! However they happily refilled my schedule III meds with the expired license. As I said WAT.
nfw2 2y ago
[flagged]
- EdwardDiego 2y ago
  Adderall is a 3:1 dextroamphetamine/levoamphetamine mix. Methamphetamine is a whole other level of stimulant. > amphetamine habits in kids that have trouble focusing in school. 1) Do you have evidence that Adderall at therapeutic dosages is anywhere near as addictive as methamphetamine at recreational dosages? 2) Yeah, ADHD makes it real hard to focus at school. I never graduated from high school, and I dropped out of university as an adult student without even completing one year, thanks to untreated ADHD. Not to mention the impulsive behaviour, the inability to stick at boring things etc. etc. It's not great in our society. You're implicitly minimising the very real impact of ADHD, that's not super great. In fact, one of the biggest issues for people finally being treated for ADHD as adults is the grieving process around "What my life could've been if my parents hadn't believed that ADHD wasn't real and my issues in school and my 'disruptiveness' was solely due to 'food intolerances', because my Mom read a magazine article about it once, then paid a quack to stick a probe in my ear, one on my finger, and then rub food on my skin while looking at a galvanometer making 'hmmm' noises sagely." 3) You know there's been Adderall shortages in the USA recently due to DEA manufacturing limitations right? So it's not like they're just throwing out to kids like it's a lolly scramble. Anyway, it's about as ironic as 10,000 spoons when all you need a knife. That is, not at all.
  - NBJack 2y ago
    I think the parent post is more likely alluding to the abuse of the medication, particularly in higher learning institutions. https://psych.wisc.edu/news/easy-access-pressure-on-students-contributes-to-increase-in-non-prescribed-adderall-use/#:~:text=The%20rise%20in%20illegal%20Adderall,keep%20up%20with%20their%20peers https://psych.wisc.edu/news/easy-access-pressure-on-students.... Aderrall is a Schedule II drug. This is the same category as oxycodone and fentanyl. https://www.therecoveryvillage.com/adderall-addiction/adhd-and-adderall/ https://www.therecoveryvillage.com/adderall-addiction/adhd-a...
    - 2y ago
pdonis 2y ago
> you don't just need a decent government ID; it needs to be from the state you're purchasing the Sudafed from The FDA rule on this [1] doesn't appear to be quite that strict: it says the ID can be "a photo identification card issued by the State or the Federal Government or a document that is considered acceptable by the seller". It doesn't explicitly say it has to be from the same state as the one in which you are buying the medication, and it leaves the seller some latitude in what to accept. Possibly some states have more restrictive rules. Or particular sellers might be more leery about what they are willing to accept. [1] https://www.fda.gov/drugs/information-drug-class/legal-requirements-sale-and-purchase-drug-products-containing-pseudoephedrine-ephedrine-and https://www.fda.gov/drugs/information-drug-class/legal-requi...
- _moof 2y ago
  The FDA rule doesn't restrict the IDs but the phrase "that is considered acceptable by the seller" lets the pharmacy put any restrictions in place they want. They can tell you it has to be hot pink and glow-in-the-dark and you've got no choice but to deal with it.
  - arcticbull 2y ago
    While true as long as they're in compliance with the law, wouldn't they want to sell all the Sudafed they can? They can deny service to anyone for pretty much any reason. No shirt, no shoes, no Sudafed or anything else. So yeah, but in reality it isn't aligned with their interests and if they don't want to serve you they can always find a different justification.
    - safety1st 2y ago
      Maybe they want that, maybe they don't. Retail drug stores in the US are an oligopoly, that industry may not be a monopoly (yet) but they don't function under perfect competition. Maybe if you're the management or the shareholders of a retail drug chain you're just kind of shrugging your shoulders and working on the next merger at this point since the fewer competitors you have, the less hard you have to work for the customer's dollar.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
seattle_spring 2y ago
That's not universally applicable, as I've purchased it in Washington plenty of times with an Oregon ID.
bigfatkitten 2y ago
I've purchased Sudafed in Nevada with a foreign drivers' license with no issues.
esperent 2y ago
Here in Vietnam it's completely impossible to get pseudoephedrine at all and I think it's the same in all Asian countries. I even resorted to trying to buy some ephedra tea (Chinese medicinal herb from which ephedrine was first discovered). I ordered a box of tea bags from Shopee.vn and rather amusingly received an envelope with the amount I had paid including shipping in cash and an apology letter saying they could no longer sell this herb and please don't leave a bad review. However, a few months earlier due to a Google translate mixup where I thought I was ordering peppermint oil, I got 100ml of sassafras oil [0]. It's a precursor to MDMA and at least as restricted as pseudoephedrine. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safrole https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safrole
- exe34 2y ago
  just been banned in the UK. was the only thing that worked on my allergies. edit: my bad, no it's codeine linctus that was banned, there was talk of making pseudoephedrine prescription only but that hasn't gone through.
  - pj1115 2y ago
    Pseudoephedrine, banned? That's news to me, I bought some OTC a couple of weeks ago.
- angry_octet 2y ago
  It's readily available in Thailand and Indonesia. You can get it mixed with paracetamol OTC in Singapore, but almost everything in Singapore requires a prescription (even e.g. throat lozenges) so find a doctor if you're staying for a while. In Malaysia you need a prescription.
cowsandmilk 2y ago
I’ve definitely purchased Sudafed in Seattle with a Virginia Drivers License.
Pxtl 2y ago
Once again, big thanks to paranoid "mark of the beast" conspiracy theorists with funny ideas about federal government IDs and digital IDs. We have the technology. "Behind the counter" could just mean a vending machine with good ID tech instead of queuing up for an overworked pharmacist behind a dozen people.

echelon 2y ago

Pseudoephedrine being pulled from the shelves is one of the biggest crimes of our time. Pseudoephedrine should be easy and plentiful to obtain. I don't care if people use it to make meth. What they do in their private time doesn't concern me. Not being able to get Sudafed when I'm sick kills me. It's not like those people won't be able to get meth some other way. We let people buy cars and cause 43,000 automobile deaths a year. People should be able to live life without stuffy noses. Maybe license people to buy meds and take it away if they abuse it? That's better than the draconian system we have now. And don't get me started on ADHD medication and their shortages. Edit: and there are 178,000 alcohol related deaths per year in the US. If you're going to allow that without prohibition, then please let us unstuff our noses. I'm tired of living in a nanny state when we let people buy and own guns and swords and flamethrowers. Simply hiking on a mountain can kill you. Must we install guardrails on all the high places? It's not that bad of a negative externality. Honestly. Not relative to all the other ones we've deemed acceptable. This is weird picking and choosing that doesn't make sense.

loopdoend 2y ago
It is even easier to get in Singapore.
- radicality 2y ago
  Really? As in, in spite of how bonkers the overall import rules in Singapore are? I just travelled there few weeks ago, and the government websites made it sound like it’s best to just not bring any pills at all (or chewing gum). - Tool you can to use to check active ingredients and whether its allowed: https://www.hsa.gov.sg/personal-medication/check-requirements https://www.hsa.gov.sg/personal-medication/check-requirement... - Anything that might be controlled/require prescription, have to apply for permit it to bring it: https://www.hsa.gov.sg/personal-medication/submit-application-for-approval-to-bring-in-personal-medications-(new) https://www.hsa.gov.sg/personal-medication/submit-applicatio... - They provide a tool to show illegal health products. Better not bring one of them: https://oscar.hsa.gov.sg/Publication/ahpdm/faces/AHPPublication.jspx https://oscar.hsa.gov.sg/Publication/ahpdm/faces/AHPPublicat...
- 2y ago

cyberax 2y ago

How did I miss this article before?!? Love it! > Other side effects may include violent urges or, similarly, the urge to be successful in business or finance. ... > We expect that the simultaneous trends of restricting pseudoephedrine sales while N-methylamphetamine becomes less expensive and of higher purity will make the methods presented here increasingly attractive.

LM358 2y ago

"simple and convenient" does a lot of heavy lifting in this paper - n-BuLi, chromium hexacarbonyl and MoOPH (had to look that one up!) is not something you find outside of a well equipped lab and shouldn't be touched by anyone who isn't highly experienced.

winocm 2y ago

Fun fact, there (was?) is a isomer of methamphetamine that is actually over the counter, levomethamphetamine was often found in Vicks brand inhalers, though they appear to be discontinued, being replaced with a ‘non-medicated’ version. There are apparently generic inhalers that still do contain it though. https://www.science.org/content/blog-post/other-methamphetamine https://www.science.org/content/blog-post/other-methamphetam...

stzsch 2y ago
See also selegiline, which partially metabolizes to levoamphetamine and levomethamphetamine. Not OTC though (antidepressant).
- winocm 2y ago
  Oh man, I have fun stories about selegiline.
  - hyperdimension 2y ago
    Come on, you can't be vague like that and expect no one to ask. Do tell!
    - winocm 2y ago
      If you really would like to know and enjoy mortal suffering, just contact me privately.

hinkley 2y ago

The problem I found was that nobody wanted to deal with the database after a certain time in the evening. Odds are good you don’t admit you’re coming down with something until after work. Or at least admit to yourself that medicine would be helpful. So by the time you see you’re out of Sudafed or can’t find the old pack, it’s often too late to go to the store to get a new one before morning.

ykonstant 2y ago

That's actually hilarious.