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People drive with a suspended license all the time. How else are getting to your job? Getting groceries? We pretend like driving is only a privilege, but it's

People drive with a suspended license all the time. How else are getting to your job? Getting groceries? We pretend like driving is only a privilege, but it's more necessary than most rights that OSHA or other agencies have "discovered".

JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> People drive with a suspended license all the time And if they’re not getting in accidents more frequently than population, that’s fine. I didn’t include this common citation for good reason. > How else are getting to your job? Getting groceries? Calling (or buying) a robotic car. We’re looking decades into the future when manually piloting a car is a privilege. (Or less than a decade in cities with public transit.) If you’re driving drunk, hitting things, recklessly speeding or texting while driving, you shouldn’t be driving. We tolerate it, extraordinarily, because driving is almost a right in America. What’s changing is it’s going from a necessity everywhere but New York to a necessity where there isn’t Uber. (In practice, at least from the few folks I know close to the incoming White House, it will happen through increasing liability for insurers. Nobody will be banned. It will just become expensive to human pilot. Or, if your FSD or equivalent isn’t engaged, hard to dispute fault.)
- Dylan16807 2y ago
  > Calling (or buying) a robotic car. If it's cost effective, sure. Until that's significantly cheaper, people need to drive. > increasing liability for insurers. Nobody will be banned. It will just become expensive to human pilot. Why would human driving insurance cost significantly more than it does today?
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > Until that's significantly cheaper, people need to drive Not in cities, even today. That region is simply broadening. Public car insurance for poor, risky drivers has zero popular appeal. This will happen gradually then quickly.
    - Dylan16807 2y ago
      I didn't mean everyone, I meant it was the typical case. And it's only some cities where it's similarly or more affordable to not have a car. Not nearly as many as it should be.
- kube-system 2y ago
  That sounds like a nice future if we can get there... but if we look at recently observed trends in the US, the increased barriers to driving a car in recent history has probably resulted in lower rates of legal compliance, rather than better driving behaviors. The risk of hit-and-run accidents, uninsured drivers, and unlicensed drivers on the road are increasing. While public transit could be a great solution, much of the poorest in the US cannot afford to live in places with good public transport because these areas have higher housing costs. > We tolerate it, extraordinarily, because driving is almost a right in America. Partially. But even the laws we do have are currently being ignored, because rates of compliance are so low that it isn't even practically feasible to enforce the law. In several US states, more than 20% of drivers are driving around without insurance. The underlying problem here is beyond what can be solved merely with enforcement. I'm hopeful it eventually happens, but I think we're a very long way from a world where someone in small-town Mississippi can ride around in a robotic car on a McDonalds wage.
bradleybuda 2y ago
It’s hard to get your license suspended! You have to severely screw up, usually more than once. If you depend on a personal vehicle for your livelihood, you should avoid it!
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  Going out on a limb and guessing people for whom losing a vehicle is existential have the same executive-function issues as someone who will get their license suspended and then drive on it. (Also, poverty. Registration and renewal costs money.)
- rascul 2y ago
  Depends a lot on jurisdiction. Was pretty easy for me to get my license suspended twice in Maryland some decades ago.
- davkan 2y ago
  You can get your license suspended in many places from nonpayment of parking tickets or even something completely unrelated to operating a vehicle like child support. Its not just getting points on your license from a bunch of speeding tickets.
occz 2y ago
This is a problem you solve not by sacrificing the lives of others, but instead by designing built environments not dependent on driving cars.
- ThunderSizzle 2y ago
  Well, that's nice and all for the future, but it doesn't buy someone groceries today. That problem isn't a hard concept. You have to work with the framework that currently exists.
Mawr 2y ago
‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens I understand how bad the reality is in the US, but public transportation is a solved problem.

JumpCrisscross 2y ago

> People drive with a suspended license all the time And if they’re not getting in accidents more frequently than population, that’s fine. I didn’t include this common citation for good reason. > How else are getting to your job? Getting groceries? Calling (or buying) a robotic car. We’re looking decades into the future when manually piloting a car is a privilege. (Or less than a decade in cities with public transit.) If you’re driving drunk, hitting things, recklessly speeding or texting while driving, you shouldn’t be driving. We tolerate it, extraordinarily, because driving is almost a right in America. What’s changing is it’s going from a necessity everywhere but New York to a necessity where there isn’t Uber. (In practice, at least from the few folks I know close to the incoming White House, it will happen through increasing liability for insurers. Nobody will be banned. It will just become expensive to human pilot. Or, if your FSD or equivalent isn’t engaged, hard to dispute fault.)

Dylan16807 2y ago
> Calling (or buying) a robotic car. If it's cost effective, sure. Until that's significantly cheaper, people need to drive. > increasing liability for insurers. Nobody will be banned. It will just become expensive to human pilot. Why would human driving insurance cost significantly more than it does today?
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > Until that's significantly cheaper, people need to drive Not in cities, even today. That region is simply broadening. Public car insurance for poor, risky drivers has zero popular appeal. This will happen gradually then quickly.
  - Dylan16807 2y ago
    I didn't mean everyone, I meant it was the typical case. And it's only some cities where it's similarly or more affordable to not have a car. Not nearly as many as it should be.
kube-system 2y ago
That sounds like a nice future if we can get there... but if we look at recently observed trends in the US, the increased barriers to driving a car in recent history has probably resulted in lower rates of legal compliance, rather than better driving behaviors. The risk of hit-and-run accidents, uninsured drivers, and unlicensed drivers on the road are increasing. While public transit could be a great solution, much of the poorest in the US cannot afford to live in places with good public transport because these areas have higher housing costs. > We tolerate it, extraordinarily, because driving is almost a right in America. Partially. But even the laws we do have are currently being ignored, because rates of compliance are so low that it isn't even practically feasible to enforce the law. In several US states, more than 20% of drivers are driving around without insurance. The underlying problem here is beyond what can be solved merely with enforcement. I'm hopeful it eventually happens, but I think we're a very long way from a world where someone in small-town Mississippi can ride around in a robotic car on a McDonalds wage.

bradleybuda 2y ago

It’s hard to get your license suspended! You have to severely screw up, usually more than once. If you depend on a personal vehicle for your livelihood, you should avoid it!

JumpCrisscross 2y ago
Going out on a limb and guessing people for whom losing a vehicle is existential have the same executive-function issues as someone who will get their license suspended and then drive on it. (Also, poverty. Registration and renewal costs money.)
rascul 2y ago
Depends a lot on jurisdiction. Was pretty easy for me to get my license suspended twice in Maryland some decades ago.
davkan 2y ago
You can get your license suspended in many places from nonpayment of parking tickets or even something completely unrelated to operating a vehicle like child support. Its not just getting points on your license from a bunch of speeding tickets.

occz 2y ago

This is a problem you solve not by sacrificing the lives of others, but instead by designing built environments not dependent on driving cars.

ThunderSizzle 2y ago
Well, that's nice and all for the future, but it doesn't buy someone groceries today. That problem isn't a hard concept. You have to work with the framework that currently exists.

Mawr 2y ago

‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens I understand how bad the reality is in the US, but public transportation is a solved problem.