7 ms·

Growing food instead of lawns in California front yards

47 points by CrypticShift 2y ago

CrypticShift 2y ago
https://archive.ph/XrerA https://archive.ph/XrerA
komali2 2y ago
Huh, I thought this was going to be about Food Not Lawns, but apparently not. This is a whole movement: https://www.foodnotlawns.com/ https://www.foodnotlawns.com/
- gniv 2y ago
  The forum links on that page don't seem to work. Is there a forum?
  - N-Krause 2y ago
    Works fine for me. Leads to either a Facebook group or here: https://community.ecodesignhive.com/ https://community.ecodesignhive.com/
octocop 2y ago
Yes, one of the main reasons to have a garden. I guess the next article will be "Fishing instead of swimming in the Ocean"
- cnity 2y ago
  Where do you live that the majority of domestic gardens are used primarily to grow food?
  - WithinReason 2y ago
    Isn't that common around the world?
    - beedeebeedee 2y ago
      Not in the US
    - dylan604 2y ago
      First, we need to come to a universal understanding of the term "garden". What the UK understands as garden would be considered the back yard in the US. Some people in the US choose to have a garden in their back yard while others do not. So for purposes of discussion, let's call garden the spot where you are actually growing plants for food as opposed to a flower garden. Is that common with the stated definition? In the US, it is not especially if you add sustaining levels of production vs just hobby level
      - helboi4 2y ago
        Is that actually how people use the word garden outside the uk?
        dylan604 2y ago
        In the US, garden is the area of the yard that grows plants. It is typically a small portion of the yard. The yard is pretty much any open space of the owner's parcel of land not containing the house or other structures. Also commonly used terms are "flower beds" or "plant beds". These are typically for ornamental plants vs food. Most people would consider a garden to primarily be for food plants. For example, the Great British Bake-off has the tent in the garden. But no red blooded 'murican would consider that expanse of manicured grass as a garden.
      - cnity 2y ago
        Yeah possibly poor choice of words for an international audience. For non-brits, imagine I just said "additional, nature-y non-covered area of your place of residence".
  - octocop 2y ago
    It's pretty common on earth that people grow food in proximity to their home and where the soil is fertile. It just takes an american to make it into an "Aha" moment, hence the snarky remark about fish and ocean. But there you go.
- commandlinefan 2y ago
  lol, I've been growing food-bearing plants in my backyard for about 10 years now. I plant jalapenos, tomatoes, bell peppers, watermelons, squash, zuchini, strawberries, eggplant and cantaloupe. I've grown maybe the equivalent of $100 worth of fruits and vegetables in that time. If I'm lucky I'll get three watermelons in a year. It's interesting to see and fun to do, but there's no way that planting vegetable plants is going to sustain you to any level on a typical lot.
  - okaram 2y ago
    Definitely not, but having fresh herbs veggies available is amazing. With herbs, I think it can be cheaper than buying them at the store (we normally waste tons of herbs if we buy at the store). With peppers and tomatoes, they just taste better :) This year we may do squashes and eggplants ...
    - commandlinefan 2y ago
      > having fresh herbs That's true - there's nothing in the world that tastes like fresh-cut cilantro (definitely not day old cilantro). Unfortunately, it takes a lot of work to keep a cilantro plant from bolting.
      - mbg721 2y ago
        I'm amazed that anyone pays supermarket prices for fresh mint. You can't stop it from spreading, it's essentially a weed.
  - batch12 2y ago
    We do this too. For me the garden has also been a gateway into preserving. This year, I put up enough tomatoes to last the year. It's not always cheaper than buying the cheap alternative from the store, but the quality difference between something home grown and store bought is huge. In addition to the items you've listed, I'd add grapes/ muscadines, passionfruit (grows wild so cheating), fruit and nut trees (figs are easy if you keep them pruned), berries, tea, lettuce/greens, celery, potatoes, carrots, herbs. I used to hate gardening, but it's grown on me over the last few years. The only thing I don't like growing is squash really.
hcarvalhoalves 2y ago
Lawns are an upper-class, 18th century invention, because of course growing food on land is for peasants. The larger the lawn, the more expensive the maintenance, so a well kept lawn was a display of status. Then, 19th century middle-class, in an attempt to look wealthier and having no personality whatsoever, replicated the trend on their tiny lots, even though they owned much less land, and keeping a lawn is a financial burden. Nowadays, there's so much profit in this space (equipment, herbicides, etc) that there's an immense marketing budget to keep the status quo. That's why it's important to learn your history. Good to see this trend reversing.
- automatic6131 2y ago
  Lawns are functional though, they aren't just a status symbol. They can be, but they can also be a social and recreational space. Can also be a piece of art - you may laugh sure but, what is art? What is something kept for its aesthetic value alone? Also over the pond it's an invention much older than merely the 18th century.
  - indigo0086 2y ago
    The land will never be reclaimed by anyone but the owner so why is it a big deal if someone manicures it. Buy your land and do with it what you will.
    - nfriedly 2y ago
      I think it matters when the owner wants to do something different but feels obligated to maintain the status quo by neighbors, and often even laws and regulations.
      - indigo0086 2y ago
        Ah the old HN Gaslight Redirect. My reply is to a personal opinion of the OP, you're reply is to another argument made by not me.
whalesalad 2y ago
California has some of the best weather in the country to do stuff like this. It's a no brainer. So many wonderful crops can be grown year round. Growing up we had an avocado tree, kumquat, lemons, limes, tomatoes, cukes, apples, grapefruits, you name it. As a Michigander now, I miss this a lot. If you are on the fence about this idea - please do it on behalf of everyone in the midwest or colder climates who can only grow outdoors for a few months out of the year. Having a lawn is a ridiculous waste of resources, anyway. It's a win-win.
- cnity 2y ago
  It's always worth checking out the native species that work best with your terrain, weather, and soil[0]. Though you may not be able to grow much food, you can grow a wonderfully rich, low maintenance garden with natives that will attract a diverse set of insects, birds, and animals. It in some ways might be more rewarding even than growing food, depending on your inclination. My in-laws have an incredible native garden in California that is beautiful enough to have appeared in a couple of publications as an example (this is not some extravagant and rich family either, by any means). They rarely have to water their garden, compared with their neighbours who seem to have to hose/sprinkle their lawns every other day, practically. 0: https://www.canr.msu.edu/nativeplants/plant_facts/local_info/index https://www.canr.msu.edu/nativeplants/plant_facts/local_info...
  - okaram 2y ago
    But ... keep in mind it will attract insects, birds, and animals, and they may not be cute :). Be prepared for more insects in your house, more bird poop and more possums etc
    - whalesalad 2y ago
      All good things to have around your home. Possums eat insects =)
      - throwup238 2y ago
helboi4 2y ago
I guess its a nice idea but really what California needs is less NIMBYs forcing all housing developments to be detached houses with gardens, instead of affordable housing blocks.
- whalesalad 2y ago
  Why not both? Imagine a world where everything is a dense housing block - that sucks. Some of us want to own some land and not be butted up right against their neighbor. Or have to hear the person next door fucking their spouse or blasting loud music. No thanks. More housing needs to exist - but ALL housing does not need to be dense multistory developments.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - Workaccount2 2y ago
    >Some of us want to own some land and not be butted up right against their neighbor. Or have to hear the person next door fucking their spouse or blasting loud music. No thanks. Just about everyone is like this, and hence why housing is such a nightmare situation. "I want a nice home that is situated in a relaxing quiet personal space, that is a short commute from my well paying job, and an even shorter drive to restaurants and entertainment" - 90% of people
    - njarboe 2y ago
      So maybe we try to create more of that type of living space?
      - freeone3000 2y ago
        To support a business (as employees or patrons), there needs to be a certain amount of people visiting. This number doesn’t evenly fit into a 1mi radius if everyone is on a 0.25-acre lot. So the radius expands, which means you can no longer walk; but public transit follows similar rules to businesses, there needs to be a certain ridership to make it make sense, which means we’re now primarily using personal transportation. Which is fine, bikes are fine, but we both know it’s going to be cars. Which means parking at both ends, inflating the distances further… so it’s a 15-minute-drive instead of a 5-minute walk to the nearest grocery store because the density just is not there. You can’t make something that’s far away from other people and yet close to the things that need people to continue existing.
BurningFrog 2y ago
If you enjoy growing your own food, go ahead and have fun. If you think it can replace industrial farming, we need to have a serious talk. Growing your own food is also called "subsistence farming". It's how many of the poorest of the poor survive. It's back breaking work to get just enough to survive, and in bad years you get to watch your kids starve to death. One of the greatest and least appreciated miracles of the modern age is industrial farming, which produces huge amounts of food in small areas. Without it most of us 8 billion humans would die quickly.
- Shawnj2 2y ago
  You’re not going to grow enough food on your average American lawn to survive off of either lol
  - antisthenes 2y ago
    Depends, as soon as you get into the exurbs where plots of land range from 1 to 5 acres, you can start growing a significant % of your caloric needs on your land. Not with lettuce or fruits, of course, but with potatoes/beans and gourds likely.
    - Shawnj2 2y ago
      Sure you can but that’s not necessarily what people with large lawns are going for. Also a lot of the areas like that are completely unsuitable for growing food
    - BurningFrog 2y ago
      That's true. I'm told farming is very hard work though, especially without machines.
- JambalayaJimbo 2y ago
  Raising chickens IS doable though, and should be more accepted
- swatcoder 2y ago
gr2m 2y ago
CropSwapLA is in my neighborhood, they do amazing work! Just the fact that a single residential property can grow enough produce for 45 families _each week_ is astonishing. Their technology in their latest farm (https://www.cropswapla.org/degnan https://www.cropswapla.org/degnan) is very special as well: they refer to it as terraponic. 100% recycled water, but also using some soil for temperature and moisture control. Best of both worlds between traditional farming and 100% controlled aquaponics farms. The growing boxes are entirely separated from the ground, which limits pests and maintenance. Nutrition is provided through the water, with exactly the right balance that the respective plants need. Yes, I'm biased, I'm a big fan. Just wanted to share some highlights because I think the article doesn't do the amazing work of Jamiah and his team justice. I hope we get to see many more such micro farms all across Los Angeles and Southern California.
johnea 2y ago
I was surprised the first time I saw reference to this in the HN feed, but even more surprised at how many times it's been reposted. Is this weird to people? In general I've learned to not pay attention to anything in the NYT when it comes to discussing California. I'm in San Diego, many many people grow a garden in their yard. Front, back, wherever they have room. Lawns are still more prevalent than I would expect. Even now, most people here don't realize that anything that's not brown sage scrub is being sustained with water from Colorado. I was lucky enough to know some people before they died, who taught me: if you can't eat it, or smoke it, don't water it...
underseacables 2y ago
It would be nice if I could donate my front yard to a community garden. I would not have the time or the physical ability to maintain it. Myself, brass is actually easier that way, but if others are willing to grow and maintain crops there than I think that would be a fantastic use of the space.
Roxsen 2y ago
There is also the opportunity to turn this scale of farming into a livelihood. Jamiah Hargins followed the SPIN-Farming system to start Crop Swap. Google SPIN Farming. There's a lot about it. It is being used in the US and Canada.

47 points by CrypticShift 2y ago

https://archive.ph/XrerA https://archive.ph/XrerA

Huh, I thought this was going to be about Food Not Lawns, but apparently not. This is a whole movement: https://www.foodnotlawns.com/ https://www.foodnotlawns.com/

gniv 2y ago
The forum links on that page don't seem to work. Is there a forum?
- N-Krause 2y ago
  Works fine for me. Leads to either a Facebook group or here: https://community.ecodesignhive.com/ https://community.ecodesignhive.com/

octocop 2y ago

Yes, one of the main reasons to have a garden. I guess the next article will be "Fishing instead of swimming in the Ocean"

cnity 2y ago
Where do you live that the majority of domestic gardens are used primarily to grow food?
- WithinReason 2y ago
  Isn't that common around the world?
  - beedeebeedee 2y ago
    Not in the US
  - dylan604 2y ago
    First, we need to come to a universal understanding of the term "garden". What the UK understands as garden would be considered the back yard in the US. Some people in the US choose to have a garden in their back yard while others do not. So for purposes of discussion, let's call garden the spot where you are actually growing plants for food as opposed to a flower garden. Is that common with the stated definition? In the US, it is not especially if you add sustaining levels of production vs just hobby level
    - helboi4 2y ago
      Is that actually how people use the word garden outside the uk?
      - dylan604 2y ago
        In the US, garden is the area of the yard that grows plants. It is typically a small portion of the yard. The yard is pretty much any open space of the owner's parcel of land not containing the house or other structures. Also commonly used terms are "flower beds" or "plant beds". These are typically for ornamental plants vs food. Most people would consider a garden to primarily be for food plants. For example, the Great British Bake-off has the tent in the garden. But no red blooded 'murican would consider that expanse of manicured grass as a garden.
    - cnity 2y ago
      Yeah possibly poor choice of words for an international audience. For non-brits, imagine I just said "additional, nature-y non-covered area of your place of residence".
- octocop 2y ago
  It's pretty common on earth that people grow food in proximity to their home and where the soil is fertile. It just takes an american to make it into an "Aha" moment, hence the snarky remark about fish and ocean. But there you go.
commandlinefan 2y ago
lol, I've been growing food-bearing plants in my backyard for about 10 years now. I plant jalapenos, tomatoes, bell peppers, watermelons, squash, zuchini, strawberries, eggplant and cantaloupe. I've grown maybe the equivalent of $100 worth of fruits and vegetables in that time. If I'm lucky I'll get three watermelons in a year. It's interesting to see and fun to do, but there's no way that planting vegetable plants is going to sustain you to any level on a typical lot.
- okaram 2y ago
  Definitely not, but having fresh herbs veggies available is amazing. With herbs, I think it can be cheaper than buying them at the store (we normally waste tons of herbs if we buy at the store). With peppers and tomatoes, they just taste better :) This year we may do squashes and eggplants ...
  - commandlinefan 2y ago
    > having fresh herbs That's true - there's nothing in the world that tastes like fresh-cut cilantro (definitely not day old cilantro). Unfortunately, it takes a lot of work to keep a cilantro plant from bolting.
    - mbg721 2y ago
      I'm amazed that anyone pays supermarket prices for fresh mint. You can't stop it from spreading, it's essentially a weed.
- batch12 2y ago
  We do this too. For me the garden has also been a gateway into preserving. This year, I put up enough tomatoes to last the year. It's not always cheaper than buying the cheap alternative from the store, but the quality difference between something home grown and store bought is huge. In addition to the items you've listed, I'd add grapes/ muscadines, passionfruit (grows wild so cheating), fruit and nut trees (figs are easy if you keep them pruned), berries, tea, lettuce/greens, celery, potatoes, carrots, herbs. I used to hate gardening, but it's grown on me over the last few years. The only thing I don't like growing is squash really.

hcarvalhoalves 2y ago

Lawns are an upper-class, 18th century invention, because of course growing food on land is for peasants. The larger the lawn, the more expensive the maintenance, so a well kept lawn was a display of status. Then, 19th century middle-class, in an attempt to look wealthier and having no personality whatsoever, replicated the trend on their tiny lots, even though they owned much less land, and keeping a lawn is a financial burden. Nowadays, there's so much profit in this space (equipment, herbicides, etc) that there's an immense marketing budget to keep the status quo. That's why it's important to learn your history. Good to see this trend reversing.

automatic6131 2y ago
Lawns are functional though, they aren't just a status symbol. They can be, but they can also be a social and recreational space. Can also be a piece of art - you may laugh sure but, what is art? What is something kept for its aesthetic value alone? Also over the pond it's an invention much older than merely the 18th century.
- indigo0086 2y ago
  The land will never be reclaimed by anyone but the owner so why is it a big deal if someone manicures it. Buy your land and do with it what you will.
  - nfriedly 2y ago
    I think it matters when the owner wants to do something different but feels obligated to maintain the status quo by neighbors, and often even laws and regulations.
    - indigo0086 2y ago
      Ah the old HN Gaslight Redirect. My reply is to a personal opinion of the OP, you're reply is to another argument made by not me.

whalesalad 2y ago

California has some of the best weather in the country to do stuff like this. It's a no brainer. So many wonderful crops can be grown year round. Growing up we had an avocado tree, kumquat, lemons, limes, tomatoes, cukes, apples, grapefruits, you name it. As a Michigander now, I miss this a lot. If you are on the fence about this idea - please do it on behalf of everyone in the midwest or colder climates who can only grow outdoors for a few months out of the year. Having a lawn is a ridiculous waste of resources, anyway. It's a win-win.

cnity 2y ago
It's always worth checking out the native species that work best with your terrain, weather, and soil[0]. Though you may not be able to grow much food, you can grow a wonderfully rich, low maintenance garden with natives that will attract a diverse set of insects, birds, and animals. It in some ways might be more rewarding even than growing food, depending on your inclination. My in-laws have an incredible native garden in California that is beautiful enough to have appeared in a couple of publications as an example (this is not some extravagant and rich family either, by any means). They rarely have to water their garden, compared with their neighbours who seem to have to hose/sprinkle their lawns every other day, practically. 0: https://www.canr.msu.edu/nativeplants/plant_facts/local_info/index https://www.canr.msu.edu/nativeplants/plant_facts/local_info...
- okaram 2y ago
  But ... keep in mind it will attract insects, birds, and animals, and they may not be cute :). Be prepared for more insects in your house, more bird poop and more possums etc
  - whalesalad 2y ago
    All good things to have around your home. Possums eat insects =)
    - throwup238 2y ago

helboi4 2y ago

I guess its a nice idea but really what California needs is less NIMBYs forcing all housing developments to be detached houses with gardens, instead of affordable housing blocks.

whalesalad 2y ago
Why not both? Imagine a world where everything is a dense housing block - that sucks. Some of us want to own some land and not be butted up right against their neighbor. Or have to hear the person next door fucking their spouse or blasting loud music. No thanks. More housing needs to exist - but ALL housing does not need to be dense multistory developments.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- Workaccount2 2y ago
  >Some of us want to own some land and not be butted up right against their neighbor. Or have to hear the person next door fucking their spouse or blasting loud music. No thanks. Just about everyone is like this, and hence why housing is such a nightmare situation. "I want a nice home that is situated in a relaxing quiet personal space, that is a short commute from my well paying job, and an even shorter drive to restaurants and entertainment" - 90% of people
  - njarboe 2y ago
    So maybe we try to create more of that type of living space?
    - freeone3000 2y ago
      To support a business (as employees or patrons), there needs to be a certain amount of people visiting. This number doesn’t evenly fit into a 1mi radius if everyone is on a 0.25-acre lot. So the radius expands, which means you can no longer walk; but public transit follows similar rules to businesses, there needs to be a certain ridership to make it make sense, which means we’re now primarily using personal transportation. Which is fine, bikes are fine, but we both know it’s going to be cars. Which means parking at both ends, inflating the distances further… so it’s a 15-minute-drive instead of a 5-minute walk to the nearest grocery store because the density just is not there. You can’t make something that’s far away from other people and yet close to the things that need people to continue existing.

BurningFrog 2y ago

If you enjoy growing your own food, go ahead and have fun. If you think it can replace industrial farming, we need to have a serious talk. Growing your own food is also called "subsistence farming". It's how many of the poorest of the poor survive. It's back breaking work to get just enough to survive, and in bad years you get to watch your kids starve to death. One of the greatest and least appreciated miracles of the modern age is industrial farming, which produces huge amounts of food in small areas. Without it most of us 8 billion humans would die quickly.

Shawnj2 2y ago
You’re not going to grow enough food on your average American lawn to survive off of either lol
- antisthenes 2y ago
  Depends, as soon as you get into the exurbs where plots of land range from 1 to 5 acres, you can start growing a significant % of your caloric needs on your land. Not with lettuce or fruits, of course, but with potatoes/beans and gourds likely.
  - Shawnj2 2y ago
    Sure you can but that’s not necessarily what people with large lawns are going for. Also a lot of the areas like that are completely unsuitable for growing food
  - BurningFrog 2y ago
    That's true. I'm told farming is very hard work though, especially without machines.
JambalayaJimbo 2y ago
Raising chickens IS doable though, and should be more accepted
swatcoder 2y ago

gr2m 2y ago

CropSwapLA is in my neighborhood, they do amazing work! Just the fact that a single residential property can grow enough produce for 45 families _each week_ is astonishing. Their technology in their latest farm (https://www.cropswapla.org/degnan https://www.cropswapla.org/degnan) is very special as well: they refer to it as terraponic. 100% recycled water, but also using some soil for temperature and moisture control. Best of both worlds between traditional farming and 100% controlled aquaponics farms. The growing boxes are entirely separated from the ground, which limits pests and maintenance. Nutrition is provided through the water, with exactly the right balance that the respective plants need. Yes, I'm biased, I'm a big fan. Just wanted to share some highlights because I think the article doesn't do the amazing work of Jamiah and his team justice. I hope we get to see many more such micro farms all across Los Angeles and Southern California.

johnea 2y ago

I was surprised the first time I saw reference to this in the HN feed, but even more surprised at how many times it's been reposted. Is this weird to people? In general I've learned to not pay attention to anything in the NYT when it comes to discussing California. I'm in San Diego, many many people grow a garden in their yard. Front, back, wherever they have room. Lawns are still more prevalent than I would expect. Even now, most people here don't realize that anything that's not brown sage scrub is being sustained with water from Colorado. I was lucky enough to know some people before they died, who taught me: if you can't eat it, or smoke it, don't water it...

underseacables 2y ago

It would be nice if I could donate my front yard to a community garden. I would not have the time or the physical ability to maintain it. Myself, brass is actually easier that way, but if others are willing to grow and maintain crops there than I think that would be a fantastic use of the space.

Roxsen 2y ago

There is also the opportunity to turn this scale of farming into a livelihood. Jamiah Hargins followed the SPIN-Farming system to start Crop Swap. Google SPIN Farming. There's a lot about it. It is being used in the US and Canada.