6 ms·

>it's clear that at least half all American voters don't understand technical definitions or explanations They don't need to, when they can very trivially unde

>it's clear that at least half all American voters don't understand technical definitions or explanations They don't need to, when they can very trivially understand the impact it has on their pockets. ("Why would they believe their own lying pockets, over our nice technical explanations, graphs, and citations telling them that their income is fine and things are affordable?!")

cjrp 2y ago
It's easy for them to understand the effect, I think it's harder to explain the cause in a way that resonates.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- treebeard901 2y ago
  The cause of higher prices was the spending... From Trump and COVID to Biden and the infrastructure bill. The war in Ukraine which drove up food prices and oil prices. Then the Saudis not necessarily going along with the Biden Admins requests for oil. The thinking goes that Trump and the GOP will gut the Federal Govt and the spending with it. Then Trump will give Ukraine to Putin solving the food growth and export problems with Ukraine. Then MBS in Saudi Arabia will be more than happy to accomodate requests for more oil. All three will reduce inflation and lower prices. Who knows, it could go so far that four years from now voters are complaining about deflation.
  - l33t7332273 2y ago
    This USA centric view doesn’t hold any water when you look at how much inflation there has been all over the west. If anything, you should find an explanation for why USA had lower inflation than many other countries.
  - insane_dreamer 2y ago
    Oh my. Is this what Fox News teaches? - Gutting the Fed Gov doesn't bring down inflation or prices. These are not correlated issues. - The US is a net exporter of oil, doesn't depend on the Saudis. - "Giving Ukraine" to Putin won't happen, as much as Trump would like to help his buddy out, but because the EU won't let it, because Congress ultimately controls spending, not POTUS, and they're the ones (mostly the GOP) pushing for more military aid and a bigger budget (they upped Biden's military budget and aid to Ukraine). But even if Trump did drop all US military aid to Ukraine, the Ukraine won't just collapse, that would take time. And even if Russia did fully occupy Ukraine and "end" the war, that doesn't impact food prices in the US as food imports from the Ukraine are a tiny percentage of total food imports, very little impact. Sunflower oil, maybe. These are not factors that will bring down prices.
    - treyfitty 2y ago
      Is there a citation for the US being a net exporter of oil? Last I checked, they were a net exporter of Gas, which is not the same as oil. Oil is refined to produce gas, and the US imports the majority of said oil.
      - hollerith 2y ago
        Yes, for years now, the US has been the world's largest producer of crude petroleum because of the invention of hydraulic fracturing (fracking). Larger than Saudi Arabia. The US still imports a lot of petroleum, but that is only because it has a comparative advantage in refining heavy crude. Most of the crude produced in the US is very light sweet crude, which is easier to refine. Some of that gets exported and refined overseas.
      - insane_dreamer 2y ago
        US Energy Info Admin: https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=pet&s=mcrexus1&f=a https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=pet&s=m...
      - etherealG 2y ago
        Why would you ask for a citation of something so easy to verify?
FrustratedMonky 2y ago
"They don't need to" Yes they do. If they don't understand the causes, then they will make the wrong decisions to fix the problem. Like just blaming Biden who kept inflation down, and electing Trump who clearly will increase inflation. By not understanding, the people are allowing themselves to be victimized by the right wing elites. Just like the south was convinced to have a civil war by a few wealthy land owners.
- stcroixx 2y ago
  I don't think they do and even if I'm wrong I think it's just not practical and will never happen as it's too complicated for the majority of voters. Citizens are never all going to be economists and scientists capable of analyzing these issues as experts. This is the role of government. If voters make the wrong decision and the problem is not solved by who they voted for, their remedy is to vote for someone else next time.
  - FrustratedMonky 2y ago
    You are correct. Everybody can't be experts on everything. I'm just thinking the baseline should be a bit higher. And we get, what get today by, the standards going down, and a large part of that is the religious war on education and science. Because the less educated, are more easily controlled and the 'right' use this. On whole, the farther those decisions are from reality.
- dh2022 2y ago
  If Trump will increase the inflation then the Republican Party will surely lose the midterms. At that point the masses will not be victimized by the right wing elites.
  - FrustratedMonky 2y ago
    If history repeats. Republicans will say any inflation in the next 2 years was because of the last administration and get a pass. They get 2 years of blaming the last guy.
insane_dreamer 2y ago
> They don't need to, when they can very trivially understand the impact it has on their pockets. Of course they do. You can be angry and still need to make a decision about which option is most likely to make your situation better. Anyone who actually thought through Trump's intended policies would know they won't make that particular situation better (such as bring down the price of housing or goods), except maybe the crypto bro's. In fact large tariffs will raise the price of goods (oops!). But most people don't think things through. And if they were watching TV -- which most of the older electorate does -- then they can't even think things through because they're bombarded with superficial scare ads.
- jorvi 2y ago
  It's even simpler than that: people saw that the economy was good for a large part of Trump's presidency and it was in a bumpy state during Biden's presidency. They aren't intelligent enough to realize that correlation != causation. Add to that the whole "Trump is rich and a businessman so he must know what he's doing in terms of financials". There are multiple financial organisations that did deep calculation on both candidates their policy and Harris' policies were going to be invariably better for the economy, even for the lower working class. But people won't listen to that, they'll just go by gut feel. Its the logical conclusion to the distrust in the academic & political class that has been building since the early 2010s. Not only in America, in Europe too. A big part of it is that for the first time since the late 80s, many aspects of life are stagnating or declining in the West. So why would people vote for the status quo parties? Especially for Democrats / left parties in Europe, Maslow's hierarchy of needs works into it: why would you vote for a party that gives laughable DEI issues (blacklist/whitelist > blocklist/allowlist) equal amounts of ink as "let's make sure people can pay their rent." Sadly the only solution is to care harder, even if it feels horrible to continuously be the bigger man. If you let the bottom part of the electorate wither, they'll drag on us like an anchor and make us all drown.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - kashunstva 2y ago

cjrp 2y ago

It's easy for them to understand the effect, I think it's harder to explain the cause in a way that resonates.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
treebeard901 2y ago
The cause of higher prices was the spending... From Trump and COVID to Biden and the infrastructure bill. The war in Ukraine which drove up food prices and oil prices. Then the Saudis not necessarily going along with the Biden Admins requests for oil. The thinking goes that Trump and the GOP will gut the Federal Govt and the spending with it. Then Trump will give Ukraine to Putin solving the food growth and export problems with Ukraine. Then MBS in Saudi Arabia will be more than happy to accomodate requests for more oil. All three will reduce inflation and lower prices. Who knows, it could go so far that four years from now voters are complaining about deflation.
- l33t7332273 2y ago
  This USA centric view doesn’t hold any water when you look at how much inflation there has been all over the west. If anything, you should find an explanation for why USA had lower inflation than many other countries.
- insane_dreamer 2y ago
  Oh my. Is this what Fox News teaches? - Gutting the Fed Gov doesn't bring down inflation or prices. These are not correlated issues. - The US is a net exporter of oil, doesn't depend on the Saudis. - "Giving Ukraine" to Putin won't happen, as much as Trump would like to help his buddy out, but because the EU won't let it, because Congress ultimately controls spending, not POTUS, and they're the ones (mostly the GOP) pushing for more military aid and a bigger budget (they upped Biden's military budget and aid to Ukraine). But even if Trump did drop all US military aid to Ukraine, the Ukraine won't just collapse, that would take time. And even if Russia did fully occupy Ukraine and "end" the war, that doesn't impact food prices in the US as food imports from the Ukraine are a tiny percentage of total food imports, very little impact. Sunflower oil, maybe. These are not factors that will bring down prices.
  - treyfitty 2y ago
    Is there a citation for the US being a net exporter of oil? Last I checked, they were a net exporter of Gas, which is not the same as oil. Oil is refined to produce gas, and the US imports the majority of said oil.
    - hollerith 2y ago
      Yes, for years now, the US has been the world's largest producer of crude petroleum because of the invention of hydraulic fracturing (fracking). Larger than Saudi Arabia. The US still imports a lot of petroleum, but that is only because it has a comparative advantage in refining heavy crude. Most of the crude produced in the US is very light sweet crude, which is easier to refine. Some of that gets exported and refined overseas.
    - insane_dreamer 2y ago
      US Energy Info Admin: https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=pet&s=mcrexus1&f=a https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=pet&s=m...
    - etherealG 2y ago
      Why would you ask for a citation of something so easy to verify?

FrustratedMonky 2y ago

"They don't need to" Yes they do. If they don't understand the causes, then they will make the wrong decisions to fix the problem. Like just blaming Biden who kept inflation down, and electing Trump who clearly will increase inflation. By not understanding, the people are allowing themselves to be victimized by the right wing elites. Just like the south was convinced to have a civil war by a few wealthy land owners.

stcroixx 2y ago
I don't think they do and even if I'm wrong I think it's just not practical and will never happen as it's too complicated for the majority of voters. Citizens are never all going to be economists and scientists capable of analyzing these issues as experts. This is the role of government. If voters make the wrong decision and the problem is not solved by who they voted for, their remedy is to vote for someone else next time.
- FrustratedMonky 2y ago
  You are correct. Everybody can't be experts on everything. I'm just thinking the baseline should be a bit higher. And we get, what get today by, the standards going down, and a large part of that is the religious war on education and science. Because the less educated, are more easily controlled and the 'right' use this. On whole, the farther those decisions are from reality.
dh2022 2y ago
If Trump will increase the inflation then the Republican Party will surely lose the midterms. At that point the masses will not be victimized by the right wing elites.
- FrustratedMonky 2y ago
  If history repeats. Republicans will say any inflation in the next 2 years was because of the last administration and get a pass. They get 2 years of blaming the last guy.

insane_dreamer 2y ago

> They don't need to, when they can very trivially understand the impact it has on their pockets. Of course they do. You can be angry and still need to make a decision about which option is most likely to make your situation better. Anyone who actually thought through Trump's intended policies would know they won't make that particular situation better (such as bring down the price of housing or goods), except maybe the crypto bro's. In fact large tariffs will raise the price of goods (oops!). But most people don't think things through. And if they were watching TV -- which most of the older electorate does -- then they can't even think things through because they're bombarded with superficial scare ads.

jorvi 2y ago
It's even simpler than that: people saw that the economy was good for a large part of Trump's presidency and it was in a bumpy state during Biden's presidency. They aren't intelligent enough to realize that correlation != causation. Add to that the whole "Trump is rich and a businessman so he must know what he's doing in terms of financials". There are multiple financial organisations that did deep calculation on both candidates their policy and Harris' policies were going to be invariably better for the economy, even for the lower working class. But people won't listen to that, they'll just go by gut feel. Its the logical conclusion to the distrust in the academic & political class that has been building since the early 2010s. Not only in America, in Europe too. A big part of it is that for the first time since the late 80s, many aspects of life are stagnating or declining in the West. So why would people vote for the status quo parties? Especially for Democrats / left parties in Europe, Maslow's hierarchy of needs works into it: why would you vote for a party that gives laughable DEI issues (blacklist/whitelist > blocklist/allowlist) equal amounts of ink as "let's make sure people can pay their rent." Sadly the only solution is to care harder, even if it feels horrible to continuously be the bigger man. If you let the bottom part of the electorate wither, they'll drag on us like an anchor and make us all drown.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- kashunstva 2y ago