4 ms·

> go again the same day. That seems like a stretch. What is the actual turnaround time for Starship? fwiw the Shuttle had a lot of lofty promises of reusabil

by eunoia 2y ago

> go again the same day. That seems like a stretch. What is the actual turnaround time for Starship? fwiw the Shuttle had a lot of lofty promises of reusability that were technically true as long as you didn't consider how long the turnaround time was.

modeless 2y ago
It's a good question. The hurdle to clear for same-day reuse will be the heat shield. SpaceX hasn't yet demonstrated that Starship can reenter the atmosphere and remain fully intact. Doing it while sustaining near zero wear on the heat shield will be even harder. But I think it is not impossible, and I don't know of any other obvious blockers for same day reuse.
- YetAnotherNick 2y ago
  Even if they can reuse the booster, it would be huge.
- soperj 2y ago
  They'll likely reuse the booster on the same day well before the starship portion. No heat shield on the booster. Some starships will likely stay in space for a long time before returning.
  - thinkcontext 2y ago
    Musk has said they're aiming for hundreds of reuses for the booster and dozens for the ship.
- BurningFrog 2y ago
  It's certainly looked fully intact when reaching ground. When they manage to do the intended landing it should be pretty unharmed, but I'm sure it will take a while before same-day reuse is attempted.
  - modeless 2y ago
    One of the flaps burned through again. Not as bad as the first time. The hinge area seems like the hardest challenge.
    - dylan604 2y ago
      Is this a bit of over engineering? How much is drag reduced during liftoff by having the flaps folded?
      - modeless 2y ago
        The reason the flaps move is to provide attitude and speed control during reentry. Like a skydiver spreading their arms and legs.
        dylan604 2y ago
        oh, you mean like actual flaps of pretty much any aircraft. doh! i was thinking it was like the folding of the wings for planes on an aircraft carrier. sometimes my brain, boy, i don't know
    - bryanlarsen 2y ago
      It was a flap hinge that burnt through, not the flap. They have a solution for block 2 which we'll likely see in test 7 -- move the flap slightly further back so that the hinge isn't in direct flow.
- WalterBright 2y ago
  Zero wear is not necessary. The tiles can be thicker than the minimum, and be reusable until they wear down to the minimum. Like the brake pads on your car.
soperj 2y ago
With the Falcon 9 they're already at over 100 launches this year. It's multiple rockets, but the turn around is pretty quick and getting quicker every year. They're designing starship from the start with same day turnaround in mind. I wouldn't bet against it I guess.
ceejayoz 2y ago
Some of SpaceX's first stages are getting close to the individual Shuttles' launch counts, with substantially less turnaround time and cost than Shuttle ever had. Starship has work to do, but it's hard to argue they're not at least on the right path.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- cwillu 2y ago
  Also, less cost in life.
- marcusverus 2y ago
  SpaceX was able to re-fly a Falcon 9 in 3 weeks, and it was reported[0] that the refurb process only took 9 days. So they're well on their way. It's also worth noting that Booster (the first stage), Starship (the second stage) and Raptor (the rocket engine) were all designed with the benefit of the above experience and with the goal of same-day reuse in mind. They know where all of the refurb time went and where the bottlenecks are. I have no doubt that they can reduce the turnaround further, but the goal of same-day re-flight does seem mighty ambitious. [0] https://www.teslarati.com/spacex-falcon-9-new-booster-turnaround-record-21-days/ https://www.teslarati.com/spacex-falcon-9-new-booster-turnar...
fragmede 2y ago
The previous flight was October 13, 2024, so while I can't speak to every day, one month turnaround is a reality.
- soperj 2y ago
  It's a completely different booster and ship that's flying.
  - ceejayoz 2y ago
    And both are already outdated - flight seven (Ship 33) introduces a new generation of hardware. They're moving fast with these.
gridspy 2y ago
The shuttle boosters required rebuilding / refueling (which is solid rocket goop) and the fuel tank was completely lost and required rebuilding. The head shield tiles were extremely fragile on the shuttle. It was never a fully reusable design, just more reusable than before. SpaceX plans to have no parts that are lost each flight and is working to make the tiles mostly standardized and less sensitive to faults.
- trompetenaccoun 2y ago
  Are they going to replace all the tiles before it can relaunch? And what about the engine nozzles? They must be taking quite the beating. No doubt SpaceX has very smart people working on this and I'm not an expert in material science, but I just find it hard to believe that same day turnaround could be possible. If true, that would really make us a confirmed space faring civilization. We could actually start colonizing Mars.
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > what about the engine nozzles? Falcon 9 has reflown in just over 4 hours [1]. (EDIT: Operational turnaround. Nozzles have been turned around allegedly without refurb in 3 weeks.) [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Falcon_9_and_Falcon_Heavy_launches https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Falcon_9_and_Falcon_...
    - ceejayoz 2y ago
      No, those were separate craft, on opposite sides of the country. It demonstrates an ability to manage multiple missions at once, but not rapid booster turnaround. https://www.space.com/spacex-starlink-launch-doubleheader-july-2024 https://www.space.com/spacex-starlink-launch-doubleheader-ju... They've since done two flights in about an hour with https://spaceflightnow.com/tag/starlink-9-5/ https://spaceflightnow.com/tag/starlink-9-5/ and https://spaceflightnow.com/tag/starlink-8-10/ https://spaceflightnow.com/tag/starlink-8-10/ I think the first-stage turnaround record is something like two weeks. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Falcon_9_first-stage_boosters#Reuse_and_recovery_records https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Falcon_9_first-stage_b... > B1062 booster holds the record for fastest turnaround at 21 days. It launched on 8 April and again on 29 April 2022.
LorenDB 2y ago
For the Super Heavy booster, SpaceX is targeting a <1hr turnaround time. For the ship, it gets a bit more complex. Ships have to make complete orbits before returning, and generally they have to be loaded with cargo as well. Tanker Starships for lunar/Mars missions will probably have pretty quick turnaround given that fuel can be loaded on the pad; other ships will have significantly longer turnarounds.

by eunoia 2y ago

modeless 2y ago

It's a good question. The hurdle to clear for same-day reuse will be the heat shield. SpaceX hasn't yet demonstrated that Starship can reenter the atmosphere and remain fully intact. Doing it while sustaining near zero wear on the heat shield will be even harder. But I think it is not impossible, and I don't know of any other obvious blockers for same day reuse.

YetAnotherNick 2y ago
Even if they can reuse the booster, it would be huge.
soperj 2y ago
They'll likely reuse the booster on the same day well before the starship portion. No heat shield on the booster. Some starships will likely stay in space for a long time before returning.
- thinkcontext 2y ago
  Musk has said they're aiming for hundreds of reuses for the booster and dozens for the ship.
BurningFrog 2y ago
It's certainly looked fully intact when reaching ground. When they manage to do the intended landing it should be pretty unharmed, but I'm sure it will take a while before same-day reuse is attempted.
- modeless 2y ago
  One of the flaps burned through again. Not as bad as the first time. The hinge area seems like the hardest challenge.
  - dylan604 2y ago
    Is this a bit of over engineering? How much is drag reduced during liftoff by having the flaps folded?
    - modeless 2y ago
      The reason the flaps move is to provide attitude and speed control during reentry. Like a skydiver spreading their arms and legs.
      - dylan604 2y ago
        oh, you mean like actual flaps of pretty much any aircraft. doh! i was thinking it was like the folding of the wings for planes on an aircraft carrier. sometimes my brain, boy, i don't know
  - bryanlarsen 2y ago
    It was a flap hinge that burnt through, not the flap. They have a solution for block 2 which we'll likely see in test 7 -- move the flap slightly further back so that the hinge isn't in direct flow.
WalterBright 2y ago
Zero wear is not necessary. The tiles can be thicker than the minimum, and be reusable until they wear down to the minimum. Like the brake pads on your car.

soperj 2y ago

With the Falcon 9 they're already at over 100 launches this year. It's multiple rockets, but the turn around is pretty quick and getting quicker every year. They're designing starship from the start with same day turnaround in mind. I wouldn't bet against it I guess.

ceejayoz 2y ago

Some of SpaceX's first stages are getting close to the individual Shuttles' launch counts, with substantially less turnaround time and cost than Shuttle ever had. Starship has work to do, but it's hard to argue they're not at least on the right path.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
cwillu 2y ago
Also, less cost in life.
marcusverus 2y ago
SpaceX was able to re-fly a Falcon 9 in 3 weeks, and it was reported[0] that the refurb process only took 9 days. So they're well on their way. It's also worth noting that Booster (the first stage), Starship (the second stage) and Raptor (the rocket engine) were all designed with the benefit of the above experience and with the goal of same-day reuse in mind. They know where all of the refurb time went and where the bottlenecks are. I have no doubt that they can reduce the turnaround further, but the goal of same-day re-flight does seem mighty ambitious. [0] https://www.teslarati.com/spacex-falcon-9-new-booster-turnaround-record-21-days/ https://www.teslarati.com/spacex-falcon-9-new-booster-turnar...

fragmede 2y ago

The previous flight was October 13, 2024, so while I can't speak to every day, one month turnaround is a reality.

soperj 2y ago
It's a completely different booster and ship that's flying.
- ceejayoz 2y ago
  And both are already outdated - flight seven (Ship 33) introduces a new generation of hardware. They're moving fast with these.

gridspy 2y ago

The shuttle boosters required rebuilding / refueling (which is solid rocket goop) and the fuel tank was completely lost and required rebuilding. The head shield tiles were extremely fragile on the shuttle. It was never a fully reusable design, just more reusable than before. SpaceX plans to have no parts that are lost each flight and is working to make the tiles mostly standardized and less sensitive to faults.

trompetenaccoun 2y ago
Are they going to replace all the tiles before it can relaunch? And what about the engine nozzles? They must be taking quite the beating. No doubt SpaceX has very smart people working on this and I'm not an expert in material science, but I just find it hard to believe that same day turnaround could be possible. If true, that would really make us a confirmed space faring civilization. We could actually start colonizing Mars.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > what about the engine nozzles? Falcon 9 has reflown in just over 4 hours [1]. (EDIT: Operational turnaround. Nozzles have been turned around allegedly without refurb in 3 weeks.) [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Falcon_9_and_Falcon_Heavy_launches https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Falcon_9_and_Falcon_...
  - ceejayoz 2y ago
    No, those were separate craft, on opposite sides of the country. It demonstrates an ability to manage multiple missions at once, but not rapid booster turnaround. https://www.space.com/spacex-starlink-launch-doubleheader-july-2024 https://www.space.com/spacex-starlink-launch-doubleheader-ju... They've since done two flights in about an hour with https://spaceflightnow.com/tag/starlink-9-5/ https://spaceflightnow.com/tag/starlink-9-5/ and https://spaceflightnow.com/tag/starlink-8-10/ https://spaceflightnow.com/tag/starlink-8-10/ I think the first-stage turnaround record is something like two weeks. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Falcon_9_first-stage_boosters#Reuse_and_recovery_records https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Falcon_9_first-stage_b... > B1062 booster holds the record for fastest turnaround at 21 days. It launched on 8 April and again on 29 April 2022.

LorenDB 2y ago

For the Super Heavy booster, SpaceX is targeting a <1hr turnaround time. For the ship, it gets a bit more complex. Ships have to make complete orbits before returning, and generally they have to be loaded with cargo as well. Tanker Starships for lunar/Mars missions will probably have pretty quick turnaround given that fuel can be loaded on the pad; other ships will have significantly longer turnarounds.