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Awesome. OpenAI will eat this market. Called it a couple weeks ago → https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41884821 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4188482

Awesome. OpenAI will eat this market. Called it a couple weeks ago → https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41884821 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41884821. Some still think "OpenAI has no moat", keep on beating that horse, lol.

hydrolox 2y ago
not sure about reducing it to just chat but using the entire "chat gpt" as a verb is really common like "let me chatgpt this assignment" (love it or hate it is very common in schools)
dartos 2y ago
What is their moat besides incredibly deep war chests? It’s the same for all foundation model companies. The moat is how much money that have to sell inference and pay for training.
- aipatselarom 2y ago
  Yeah, you're right. They'll be out of business very soon! /s
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - dartos 2y ago
    I never once suggested that… You can stay in business for a long time with no moat and billions of dollars. Long enough to find a moat even.
- CharlesW 2y ago
  ChatGPT is more than a foundation model. To use Claude as an example of where competitors are failing in comparison, you can't even do extremely basic stuff like upload PowerPoint decks or Excel spreadsheets, much less create custom GPTs.
  - dartos 2y ago
    Sure, but none of that is moat. It’s just a feature on someone’s backlog. The proof of that is chatgpt itself. OpenAI did not pioneer a lot of those kinds of features. They saw startups doing it and just did it themselves since it’s fairly straightforward to implement. A scrappy startup can copy the vast majority of chatgpt features with another foundation model. Custom GPTs are just prompts.
    - CharlesW 2y ago
      > Sure, but none of that is moat. Not for foundation models, and not when considered individually. But as long as OpenAI continues killing it with foundation models, continues moving up the stack with applications built on those models, and continues establishing market-leading parterships/integrations with companies like Microsoft and Apple, that's a moat.
      - moofer9 2y ago
        That’s…not a moat. Here, I’ll let chatgpt tell you: True moats often involve factors like network effects, brand strength, intellectual property, or significant operational efficiencies that are harder to replicate. Superman doesn’t have a competitive moat, even if he manages to be the strongest and produce random powers out of nowhere - other superheroes pop up and monopolize various cities despite being nowhere near as powerful. Why? They are the recognizable local brand. That’s a moat. It’s not something Superman can easily do anything about. Heck, Superman’s strength even makes him unrelatable to most humans, actively harming him in the brand area.
        CharlesW 2y ago
        The Superman analogy is fun, but moats are rarely that simple. About the real-world scenario I described, ChatGPT generated: "The combination of OpenAI’s advancements in foundation models, application development, and strategic partnerships collectively creates a robust moat for several reasons: [list of reasons] "Together, these elements form a substantial moat. OpenAI’s cutting-edge models create a technological barrier, its applications generate a sticky user base, and its partnerships expand its influence and operational support, making it difficult for competitors to replicate its entire ecosystem. This combination of technological, user-based, and strategic advantages creates a robust, multi-layered moat around OpenAI in the competitive AI landscape."
codingwagie 2y ago
They already have something like 80% of the gen ai revenue
- karaterobot 2y ago
  But they're still not making a profit. Maybe the analogy would be if the moat was filled with water, and it started leaking into the castle.
  - codingwagie 2y ago
    Their goal isnt revenue, they can turn ads on and turn into google. the goal is growth
    - karaterobot 2y ago
      It seems like they already own 80% of the market, and have hundreds of millions of users. They became a for-profit company, so hopefully their goal is going to be profit eventually. I wonder whether running an ad on a ChatGPT conversation even pays for the cost of that conversation. I know the agent my company runs costs us 10x more to generate each response than an ad click would bring us in revenue. So, even if someone clicked on an ad every time they asked a question, we'd still lose money. Hmm.
seydor 2y ago
If openAi wants to eat the market they must buy chrome's omnibar
GaggiX 2y ago
Honestly right now Anthropic offer a better service, at least if you are a programmer, I don't really see the moat.

hydrolox 2y ago

not sure about reducing it to just chat but using the entire "chat gpt" as a verb is really common like "let me chatgpt this assignment" (love it or hate it is very common in schools)

dartos 2y ago

What is their moat besides incredibly deep war chests? It’s the same for all foundation model companies. The moat is how much money that have to sell inference and pay for training.

aipatselarom 2y ago
Yeah, you're right. They'll be out of business very soon! /s
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- dartos 2y ago
  I never once suggested that… You can stay in business for a long time with no moat and billions of dollars. Long enough to find a moat even.
CharlesW 2y ago
ChatGPT is more than a foundation model. To use Claude as an example of where competitors are failing in comparison, you can't even do extremely basic stuff like upload PowerPoint decks or Excel spreadsheets, much less create custom GPTs.
- dartos 2y ago
  Sure, but none of that is moat. It’s just a feature on someone’s backlog. The proof of that is chatgpt itself. OpenAI did not pioneer a lot of those kinds of features. They saw startups doing it and just did it themselves since it’s fairly straightforward to implement. A scrappy startup can copy the vast majority of chatgpt features with another foundation model. Custom GPTs are just prompts.
  - CharlesW 2y ago
    > Sure, but none of that is moat. Not for foundation models, and not when considered individually. But as long as OpenAI continues killing it with foundation models, continues moving up the stack with applications built on those models, and continues establishing market-leading parterships/integrations with companies like Microsoft and Apple, that's a moat.
    - moofer9 2y ago
      That’s…not a moat. Here, I’ll let chatgpt tell you: True moats often involve factors like network effects, brand strength, intellectual property, or significant operational efficiencies that are harder to replicate. Superman doesn’t have a competitive moat, even if he manages to be the strongest and produce random powers out of nowhere - other superheroes pop up and monopolize various cities despite being nowhere near as powerful. Why? They are the recognizable local brand. That’s a moat. It’s not something Superman can easily do anything about. Heck, Superman’s strength even makes him unrelatable to most humans, actively harming him in the brand area.
      - CharlesW 2y ago
        The Superman analogy is fun, but moats are rarely that simple. About the real-world scenario I described, ChatGPT generated: "The combination of OpenAI’s advancements in foundation models, application development, and strategic partnerships collectively creates a robust moat for several reasons: [list of reasons] "Together, these elements form a substantial moat. OpenAI’s cutting-edge models create a technological barrier, its applications generate a sticky user base, and its partnerships expand its influence and operational support, making it difficult for competitors to replicate its entire ecosystem. This combination of technological, user-based, and strategic advantages creates a robust, multi-layered moat around OpenAI in the competitive AI landscape."

codingwagie 2y ago

They already have something like 80% of the gen ai revenue

karaterobot 2y ago
But they're still not making a profit. Maybe the analogy would be if the moat was filled with water, and it started leaking into the castle.
- codingwagie 2y ago
  Their goal isnt revenue, they can turn ads on and turn into google. the goal is growth
  - karaterobot 2y ago
    It seems like they already own 80% of the market, and have hundreds of millions of users. They became a for-profit company, so hopefully their goal is going to be profit eventually. I wonder whether running an ad on a ChatGPT conversation even pays for the cost of that conversation. I know the agent my company runs costs us 10x more to generate each response than an ad click would bring us in revenue. So, even if someone clicked on an ad every time they asked a question, we'd still lose money. Hmm.

seydor 2y ago

If openAi wants to eat the market they must buy chrome's omnibar

GaggiX 2y ago

Honestly right now Anthropic offer a better service, at least if you are a programmer, I don't really see the moat.