7 ms·

I'm not American. I feel sad, not because Ds lost or Rs one. A nation, which happens to wield so much power in the world, has chosen to elect as its president,

I'm not American. I feel sad, not because Ds lost or Rs one. A nation, which happens to wield so much power in the world, has chosen to elect as its president, a deranged, indecent, man, with dictatorial tendencies, who cares for nothing about democratic--or any--institutions, who never believed in peaceful transfer of power, who called for an insurrection. I'd have thought that alone would have been a reason enough to say, "not that guy, no way". But here we are.

starluz 2y ago
[dead]
aydyn 2y ago
[flagged]
andyp-kw 2y ago
I'm not American and not taking sides. Have you listened to the latest the latest Joe Rogan episode with Musk. The Harris camp seems to be guilty of many of the things they accused Trump of. Echo chambers happen on both sides and are a real issue.
- darknavi 2y ago
  I haven't. Any good examples that you can remember?
- evdubs 2y ago
  Harris and Biden did not incite an insurrection. Harris and Biden did not get impeached for withholding funds from Ukraine as Trump was impeached for doing. Harris and Biden are not convicted felons. "The Harris camp seems to be guilty of many of the things they accused Trump of," is nonsense.
- TomK32 2y ago
  "Seems to be guilty" is a very different thing than a Fortunate Son who is an adulterer who was found guilty on 34 charges relating to the hush money, his two defense suits against Carroll are under appeal and who knows what sort of things happened when he hang out with his buddy Epstein. Jack Smith is still fighting to get the insurrection case going. America voted a criminal into office.
- HumblyTossed 2y ago
  > Have you listened to the latest the latest Joe Rogan episode with Musk. Because those two don't have an agenda at all...
  - xvector 2y ago
    And the mainstream (leftist) media doesn't? I listened to both and JRE definitely pointed out some fucked up and verifiable systemic issues with the Democrats that you wouldn't have even noticed if you only listened to MSM.
    - talldayo 2y ago
      > And the mainstream (leftist) media doesn't? Let me introduce you to my friend, Rupert Murdoch. Once you two are finished talking I don't ever want to hear you conflate mainstream media with leftist influence again.
    - HumblyTossed 2y ago
      There are some left leaning media outlets, no doubt. But there is nothing, NOTHING, that compares to the propaganda machine that is Fox. Nothing.
- guappa 2y ago
  Anything real or just made up things?
anon291 2y ago
[flagged]
- kristjansson 2y ago
  Being on the winning side today is absolutely zero excuse for attempting to subvert a previous election.
  - anon291 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - kristiandupont 2y ago
      And that point is stupid. because there are audio recordings of Trump saying that he just needs 11 thousand votes.
      - anon291 2y ago
        Sure, and that doesn't change the truth value of whether or not the 20 million extra votes the dems got in 2020 were real or not.
        kristjansson 2y ago
        If you're looking at the current popular vote totals, you understand that California still hasn't report _half_ it's votes, right? Washington a third?
        anon291 2y ago
        We will see. My guess is that he's improved his margin in California. I visited my brother in the very Hispanic town of Santa Maria, CA, and the trump support amongst my in-laws (hispanic immigrants) was through the roof.
    - deleted 2y ago
barkingcat 2y ago
history repeats itself, and there are no perfect people or perfect sides. Yesterday's terrorist will be tomorrow's heroes, and those deemed visionaries today will become despicable in the eyes of those to come. Such is the way since the beginning of human civilization.
sulam 2y ago
The first time he got elected I had a woe is me, what does this mean for our country perspective. These days I'm better informed and I know that America is nothing special here. Brexit, Orban, Berlusconi, Alternative for Germany, Le Pen, Netanyahu, Modi -- feel free to throw stones, but I guarantee you have an anti-immigrant group in your country that is doing better than they ever have.
- ElevenLathe 2y ago
  IMO that makes it scarier. Seemingly the whole planet is taking a sharp rightward turn.
  - dartos 2y ago
    It’s a populist movement by a population that has felt ignored by government. That, of course, doesn’t make it a good movement, or a smart one. But, imo, it’s important to understand why populism is popping off right now.
    - ElevenLathe 2y ago
      Absolutely. There are solutions to the problem of neoliberalism and the right wing doesn't have them, but I guess they're gonna get a chance to try anyway.
- matwood 2y ago
  Doesn't mean we have to follow them though. Brexit is turning out to be one of the worst self-owns in the history of democracies.
  - xvector 2y ago
    To be fair, Brexit is the only thing that might keep the UK in the AI race given the EU's draconian anti-AI regulations.
    - machiaweliczny 2y ago
ricardo81 2y ago
I wouldn't be so fatal about what he's like. He is clearly astute, maybe just has some narcissist/sociopathic tendencies in front of an audience. Even if some of what he says defies reason, the entirety of what he says is maybe more reasonable than the other side. And that's who was voted in by millions of people. Said as a UK resident who lived in North America for a bit.
guappa 2y ago
Turns out voters hate when you tell them "you can't vote for THAT guy"
- runarberg 2y ago
  In a true democracy, you cannot vote your self a dictator. So even if people end up voting for THAT guy, the democratic institutions should prevent him from using his powers in a dictatorial manner. This includes upholding the rule of law, equal rights, and human rights in general, and conceding power under popular (or legal) demand, in the territory he controls. So even when voter hate when you tell them you can’t vote for THAT guy, THAT guy should not become a dictator ones elected.
  - guappa 2y ago
    But you can only see that in 4 years, if the elections happen and how… not immediately.
    - runarberg 2y ago
      We will see much sooner. There is much more to democracy than elections, and even among dictatorships, elections are actually quite common. First signs of a dictatorships will be human rights violations and the stripping of equal rights among Americans, my guess is that will start pretty soon after he takes office in January. My guess is also that a large number of people (including foreign governments; particularly in Europe) will simply deny the dictatorial behavior of the USA government, no matter how obvious (similar to climate deniers). Even if there won’t be an election in 4 years, denialism will still prevail. This is the pattern in e.g. the Gaza genocide.
      - guappa 2y ago
        > will simply deny the dictatorial behavior Well of course, claiming a country is a dictatorship or not has absolutely nothing to do with it being a dictatorship or not. It's all about trade and military considerations.
gwn7 2y ago
None of those are true. Those are lies spread by the mainstream media (which is mostly controlled by leftists) and you are a victim for believing them. I know that the HN crowd are left-leaning and I'm going to be downvoted like hell. Maybe even flagged, because apparently leftist platforms like censorship. But I don't have to prove my point nor there is a need to argue. My point will be proven in the coming months because as time goes by you guys will see that nothing bad will happen to democracy nor women's rights or anything else important. Economy and public health is going to improve among many other things. You will see. Just pay attention. Then maybe you will remember and regret downvoting me. Oh, also: Listen to what the man is saying himself. Not what the mainstream media says he is saying. Try to see past merely Trump & his public image as well. Pay attention to what the people on his team are saying. Great people like RFK Jr, Tulsi, Vivek, and JD. Maybe you will find yourself to be enlightened. Peace.
- chicagobuss 2y ago
  Wonder if you'll regret your vote when we find ourselves headed more than ever towards a true fascist dictatorship.
  - gwn7 2y ago
    Time will tell. You will see that it's not going to happen and realize how naive you were at some point. I promise you.
dclowd9901 2y ago
You now see the exposed heart of our country: folks who have very little, being sold lots by people who will give them very little. A nation of grifters and grifting.

starluz 2y ago

[dead]

aydyn 2y ago

[flagged]

andyp-kw 2y ago

I'm not American and not taking sides. Have you listened to the latest the latest Joe Rogan episode with Musk. The Harris camp seems to be guilty of many of the things they accused Trump of. Echo chambers happen on both sides and are a real issue.

darknavi 2y ago
I haven't. Any good examples that you can remember?
evdubs 2y ago
Harris and Biden did not incite an insurrection. Harris and Biden did not get impeached for withholding funds from Ukraine as Trump was impeached for doing. Harris and Biden are not convicted felons. "The Harris camp seems to be guilty of many of the things they accused Trump of," is nonsense.
TomK32 2y ago
"Seems to be guilty" is a very different thing than a Fortunate Son who is an adulterer who was found guilty on 34 charges relating to the hush money, his two defense suits against Carroll are under appeal and who knows what sort of things happened when he hang out with his buddy Epstein. Jack Smith is still fighting to get the insurrection case going. America voted a criminal into office.
HumblyTossed 2y ago
> Have you listened to the latest the latest Joe Rogan episode with Musk. Because those two don't have an agenda at all...
- xvector 2y ago
  And the mainstream (leftist) media doesn't? I listened to both and JRE definitely pointed out some fucked up and verifiable systemic issues with the Democrats that you wouldn't have even noticed if you only listened to MSM.
  - talldayo 2y ago
    > And the mainstream (leftist) media doesn't? Let me introduce you to my friend, Rupert Murdoch. Once you two are finished talking I don't ever want to hear you conflate mainstream media with leftist influence again.
  - HumblyTossed 2y ago
    There are some left leaning media outlets, no doubt. But there is nothing, NOTHING, that compares to the propaganda machine that is Fox. Nothing.
guappa 2y ago
Anything real or just made up things?

anon291 2y ago

[flagged]

kristjansson 2y ago
Being on the winning side today is absolutely zero excuse for attempting to subvert a previous election.
- anon291 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - kristiandupont 2y ago
    And that point is stupid. because there are audio recordings of Trump saying that he just needs 11 thousand votes.
    - anon291 2y ago
      Sure, and that doesn't change the truth value of whether or not the 20 million extra votes the dems got in 2020 were real or not.
      - kristjansson 2y ago
        If you're looking at the current popular vote totals, you understand that California still hasn't report _half_ it's votes, right? Washington a third?
        anon291 2y ago
        We will see. My guess is that he's improved his margin in California. I visited my brother in the very Hispanic town of Santa Maria, CA, and the trump support amongst my in-laws (hispanic immigrants) was through the roof.
  - deleted 2y ago

barkingcat 2y ago

history repeats itself, and there are no perfect people or perfect sides. Yesterday's terrorist will be tomorrow's heroes, and those deemed visionaries today will become despicable in the eyes of those to come. Such is the way since the beginning of human civilization.

sulam 2y ago

The first time he got elected I had a woe is me, what does this mean for our country perspective. These days I'm better informed and I know that America is nothing special here. Brexit, Orban, Berlusconi, Alternative for Germany, Le Pen, Netanyahu, Modi -- feel free to throw stones, but I guarantee you have an anti-immigrant group in your country that is doing better than they ever have.

ElevenLathe 2y ago
IMO that makes it scarier. Seemingly the whole planet is taking a sharp rightward turn.
- dartos 2y ago
  It’s a populist movement by a population that has felt ignored by government. That, of course, doesn’t make it a good movement, or a smart one. But, imo, it’s important to understand why populism is popping off right now.
  - ElevenLathe 2y ago
    Absolutely. There are solutions to the problem of neoliberalism and the right wing doesn't have them, but I guess they're gonna get a chance to try anyway.
matwood 2y ago
Doesn't mean we have to follow them though. Brexit is turning out to be one of the worst self-owns in the history of democracies.
- xvector 2y ago
  To be fair, Brexit is the only thing that might keep the UK in the AI race given the EU's draconian anti-AI regulations.
  - machiaweliczny 2y ago

ricardo81 2y ago

I wouldn't be so fatal about what he's like. He is clearly astute, maybe just has some narcissist/sociopathic tendencies in front of an audience. Even if some of what he says defies reason, the entirety of what he says is maybe more reasonable than the other side. And that's who was voted in by millions of people. Said as a UK resident who lived in North America for a bit.

guappa 2y ago

Turns out voters hate when you tell them "you can't vote for THAT guy"

runarberg 2y ago
In a true democracy, you cannot vote your self a dictator. So even if people end up voting for THAT guy, the democratic institutions should prevent him from using his powers in a dictatorial manner. This includes upholding the rule of law, equal rights, and human rights in general, and conceding power under popular (or legal) demand, in the territory he controls. So even when voter hate when you tell them you can’t vote for THAT guy, THAT guy should not become a dictator ones elected.
- guappa 2y ago
  But you can only see that in 4 years, if the elections happen and how… not immediately.
  - runarberg 2y ago
    We will see much sooner. There is much more to democracy than elections, and even among dictatorships, elections are actually quite common. First signs of a dictatorships will be human rights violations and the stripping of equal rights among Americans, my guess is that will start pretty soon after he takes office in January. My guess is also that a large number of people (including foreign governments; particularly in Europe) will simply deny the dictatorial behavior of the USA government, no matter how obvious (similar to climate deniers). Even if there won’t be an election in 4 years, denialism will still prevail. This is the pattern in e.g. the Gaza genocide.
    - guappa 2y ago
      > will simply deny the dictatorial behavior Well of course, claiming a country is a dictatorship or not has absolutely nothing to do with it being a dictatorship or not. It's all about trade and military considerations.

gwn7 2y ago

None of those are true. Those are lies spread by the mainstream media (which is mostly controlled by leftists) and you are a victim for believing them. I know that the HN crowd are left-leaning and I'm going to be downvoted like hell. Maybe even flagged, because apparently leftist platforms like censorship. But I don't have to prove my point nor there is a need to argue. My point will be proven in the coming months because as time goes by you guys will see that nothing bad will happen to democracy nor women's rights or anything else important. Economy and public health is going to improve among many other things. You will see. Just pay attention. Then maybe you will remember and regret downvoting me. Oh, also: Listen to what the man is saying himself. Not what the mainstream media says he is saying. Try to see past merely Trump & his public image as well. Pay attention to what the people on his team are saying. Great people like RFK Jr, Tulsi, Vivek, and JD. Maybe you will find yourself to be enlightened. Peace.

chicagobuss 2y ago
Wonder if you'll regret your vote when we find ourselves headed more than ever towards a true fascist dictatorship.
- gwn7 2y ago
  Time will tell. You will see that it's not going to happen and realize how naive you were at some point. I promise you.

dclowd9901 2y ago

You now see the exposed heart of our country: folks who have very little, being sold lots by people who will give them very little. A nation of grifters and grifting.