3 ms·

As an isolated incident, it's charming. When it's every day of your life, it gets to be upsetting. Especially when past experiences have included more than on i

As an isolated incident, it's charming. When it's every day of your life, it gets to be upsetting. Especially when past experiences have included more than on incident where the charming line was followed by anger and insults when it wasn't properly appreciated. Ask your female friends if it's ever happened to them. I expect a large majority of them will be able to tell you a story. Here's the best way I've been able to come up with, to get a feel for it. Suppose you have a nice watch. When somebody says, "Nice watch!", you say, "Thanks". But when you start meeting more than one person who won't stop talking about your watch, you get a little antsy. When somebody follows up with "Give me your fucking watch!" you start to think about leaving it at home some times. Except that when you're a woman, you can never leave that at home. This experience really isn't just about her. It's something practically all women experience. She seems to have just assumed her audience would share that context -- perhaps a side effect of being in academia.

conradfr 2y ago
Workers in contact with the general population ear the same jokes everyday. Ask a cashier. Actors get their famous catchphrases thrown at them consistently as well. That's just the way it goes.
- averageRoyalty 2y ago
  "Sugar?" "No, I'm sweet enough" 100% agree, this is just people filling the emptiness with idle chatter. Intent matters.
  - mewpmewp2 2y ago
    It is hard as a customer as well if you are aware about it. You just want to do something light hearted to break the ice, but the other side has seen everything, so should you just shut up, which sounds a bit depressing. And sometimes you get a flash of what you think might be witty, but obviously the other side has had those interactions 1000s of times and what are the odds of coming up with something exactly original and funny enough.
marcellus23 2y ago
You can choose your response to such things. Annoying, sure. Uncomfortable, sure. But that's life. At a certain point you have to just accept that things like the comment in the GP (which, to be clear, is the behavior I'm talking about here, not actual sexual harassment) will happen to you as a woman, and you can either get upset about it constantly and view yourself as a victim, or learn to accept that that's life. People who are not women have to deal with such things as well, as a sibling commenter pointed out. Short guys, fat guys, skinny guys, they would all get picked on (in a friendly way or otherwise). The difference is that society will not tolerate them whining about it. Women won't care and men will laugh at them. So they suck it up. It's frustrating when people say "just talk to a woman", as if all women have the same perspective on this, or women are the only ones who experience it. It's itself a sexist thing to say. I know women who don't have this kind of victim mentality and they're happier for it.
- boplicity 2y ago
  >learn to accept that that's life. Yeah, harassment is is part of life. Just accept it, right!? WTF? How low should our standards as a society be!?
  - kupopuffs 2y ago
    I'm sure there's a line somewhere where "nice watch" or "you're better looking than the guy before" are acceptable
  - andyp-kw 2y ago
    As a man who lived outside western society for many years, I often received comments about my looks and mannerisms. Did I cry like a baby, no. I made jokes about their looks and mannerisms. It's called banter. There is a line that should not be crossed, but someone making one off comments on the out of the ordinary shouldn't be classed as harassment.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
zahlman 2y ago
>Ask your female friends if it's ever happened to them. Many years ago, I used to take this advice seriously. The feedback I got was generally along the lines of "what are you talking about?" and implications that it's weird to ask, so I stopped. >It's something practically all women experience. It's strange to me how so many people believe themselves to have this insight.
- skulk 2y ago
  I don't know what to tell you. Every single woman I've had enough rapport with to have this discussion has told me several horror stories. They have a deep fear and hatred for the type of man who thinks it's okay to sexually harass a woman when he feels like it (something frighteningly many people here seem totally fine with).
  - zahlman 2y ago
    I don't know what to tell you. No comments I can see in this discussion plausibly suggest that anyone here "seems totally fine with" sexually harassing women on a whim.
    - averageRoyalty 2y ago
      I suspect the variant is in different peoples views on what constitutes 'sexual harassment'. There was a significant reduction in this (especially in the workplace) in the 90s and 00s. The issue wasn't (and never will be) solved, but has objectively improved significantly. In the last 10-15 years (especially since #metoo) the bar seems to have moved drastically, what is encompassed under this term has changed. Additionally, a whole new generation grew up now having experinenced the decades before, setting their expectations differently. I strongly suspect yours and the GPs people you've spoken to come from different age demographics, politicial spheres or both.

conradfr 2y ago

Workers in contact with the general population ear the same jokes everyday. Ask a cashier. Actors get their famous catchphrases thrown at them consistently as well. That's just the way it goes.

averageRoyalty 2y ago
"Sugar?" "No, I'm sweet enough" 100% agree, this is just people filling the emptiness with idle chatter. Intent matters.
- mewpmewp2 2y ago
  It is hard as a customer as well if you are aware about it. You just want to do something light hearted to break the ice, but the other side has seen everything, so should you just shut up, which sounds a bit depressing. And sometimes you get a flash of what you think might be witty, but obviously the other side has had those interactions 1000s of times and what are the odds of coming up with something exactly original and funny enough.

marcellus23 2y ago

You can choose your response to such things. Annoying, sure. Uncomfortable, sure. But that's life. At a certain point you have to just accept that things like the comment in the GP (which, to be clear, is the behavior I'm talking about here, not actual sexual harassment) will happen to you as a woman, and you can either get upset about it constantly and view yourself as a victim, or learn to accept that that's life. People who are not women have to deal with such things as well, as a sibling commenter pointed out. Short guys, fat guys, skinny guys, they would all get picked on (in a friendly way or otherwise). The difference is that society will not tolerate them whining about it. Women won't care and men will laugh at them. So they suck it up. It's frustrating when people say "just talk to a woman", as if all women have the same perspective on this, or women are the only ones who experience it. It's itself a sexist thing to say. I know women who don't have this kind of victim mentality and they're happier for it.

boplicity 2y ago
>learn to accept that that's life. Yeah, harassment is is part of life. Just accept it, right!? WTF? How low should our standards as a society be!?
- kupopuffs 2y ago
  I'm sure there's a line somewhere where "nice watch" or "you're better looking than the guy before" are acceptable
- andyp-kw 2y ago
  As a man who lived outside western society for many years, I often received comments about my looks and mannerisms. Did I cry like a baby, no. I made jokes about their looks and mannerisms. It's called banter. There is a line that should not be crossed, but someone making one off comments on the out of the ordinary shouldn't be classed as harassment.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]

zahlman 2y ago

>Ask your female friends if it's ever happened to them. Many years ago, I used to take this advice seriously. The feedback I got was generally along the lines of "what are you talking about?" and implications that it's weird to ask, so I stopped. >It's something practically all women experience. It's strange to me how so many people believe themselves to have this insight.

skulk 2y ago
I don't know what to tell you. Every single woman I've had enough rapport with to have this discussion has told me several horror stories. They have a deep fear and hatred for the type of man who thinks it's okay to sexually harass a woman when he feels like it (something frighteningly many people here seem totally fine with).
- zahlman 2y ago
  I don't know what to tell you. No comments I can see in this discussion plausibly suggest that anyone here "seems totally fine with" sexually harassing women on a whim.
  - averageRoyalty 2y ago
    I suspect the variant is in different peoples views on what constitutes 'sexual harassment'. There was a significant reduction in this (especially in the workplace) in the 90s and 00s. The issue wasn't (and never will be) solved, but has objectively improved significantly. In the last 10-15 years (especially since #metoo) the bar seems to have moved drastically, what is encompassed under this term has changed. Additionally, a whole new generation grew up now having experinenced the decades before, setting their expectations differently. I strongly suspect yours and the GPs people you've spoken to come from different age demographics, politicial spheres or both.