4 ms·

Under the Biden/Harris administration even software engineers were hurting and couldn't find work. Unprecedented

romwell 2y ago
>Under the Biden/Harris administration even software engineers were hurting and couldn't find work. Unprecedented Sure. And why do you think that might be? In other words, do you think policy changes have instantaneous effect on issues like unemployment, or perhaps they take some time?
- kukkamario 2y ago
  It is rather annoying that larger policy changes easily take 2-4 years to actually affect anything so current party always gets both blame and thanks for the changes made by the previous administration.
- matwood 2y ago
  Yeah. Unless a POTUS is in for 8 years they almost never get to experience the full results of their economic policies. Biden inherited an inflation time bomb which has been handled. I expect Trump will claim he fixed inflation the first report that comes out after the inauguration.
  - mindslight 2y ago
    A thousand times this. I don't know that Trump could have done a better job at economic sabotage when in office the first time. Printed trillions of dollars of undirected helicopter money when monetary velocity was low, which immediately went into asset inflation ("the stock market is great"). Then when things started moving again, it all started chasing goods and we got broad price inflation on top of acute shortages. The fact that the democrats just let the republicans hang Trump's economic destruction around their neck really shows how utterly inept they are at messaging. I shudder to think what inflation will be at in four years after a return to ZIRP corporate welfare and the next national emergency that's left to fester.
  - throwaway2037 2y ago
    "inflation time bomb". I never saw that term before. What was the primary cause of simultaneous inflation in all highly advanced economies, and how was Trump responsible for the US component?
    - matwood 2y ago
      He wasn't responsible for all of it. COVID supply chain disruption obviously played a huge part, but it's like everyone has forgotten that Trump also sent out a huge amount of money[1]. We can debate if that was the wrong/right move, but it's annoying when people blame Biden for the inflation that inevitably came once the economy turned back around. Trump has as much if not more responsibility depending on how you look at it. Meanwhile, the Fed under a Biden administration has seemingly engineered a soft landing. Trump also pressed SA to cut oil production to help prop up gas prices in the US [2]. So when the economy turned demand surged back pushing prices higher. [1] https://www.investopedia.com/coronavirus-aid-relief-and-economic-security-cares-act-4800707 https://www.investopedia.com/coronavirus-aid-relief-and-econ... [2] https://www.reuters.com/article/economy/special-report-trump-told-saudi-cut-oil-supply-or-lose-us-military-support--idUSKBN22C1V3/ https://www.reuters.com/article/economy/special-report-trump...
- colechristensen 2y ago
  Democrats insisted on COVID restrictions that were more like religion than science and then they just stopped and everyone was fine. The medical outcomes good and bad still happened, some of them just delayed. The length and intensity of the restrictions were unnecessary, and the economic consequences of giving away trillions of dollars during them are why we’re in this economic situation. What would have changed if the restrictions were 6 or 12 months shorter? Nothing.
  - rpenm 2y ago
    Not true, restrictive states had significantly lower mortality. Mask mandates being the most significant factor. The largest gaps in mortality occur in the latter half of 2020 and the latter half of 2021, during Delta. https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama-health-forum/fullarticle/2821581 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama-health-forum/fullartic...
  - svardilfari 2y ago
    That's survivorship bias and thus your comment is just an opinion and nothing more. During restrictions covid vaccines were rapidly handed out and improved upon - this undoubtedly halted the spread of a virus that ultimately killed 1,212,000 people. So please go ask those peoples family and those people themselves if 'everyone was fine'
  - throwaway4220 2y ago
    This ended up being true but is easy to say retrospectively though! I was in (irrationally) mortal fear everyday. Maybe if Democrats just played the republican card and refused to sign stimulus package just out of spite we would not be here. Same with the bank bailout in 2009.
    - colechristensen 2y ago
      You can look at my posting history from the time, I was saying the same thing during the latter half of the lockdown
  - romwell 2y ago
- j0hnyl 2y ago
  They do have an instantaneous effect. The unemployment rate is toggled using interest rates and the impact is seen immediately.
- GlobalFrog 2y ago
  Well, if you remember the 2016 elections, Trump was saying that the economy was extremely bad and disastrous. Then, within his first month of presidency, suddenly, the same numbers were extremely good because of him. During the Obama presidency, there had been a growth of 227000 jobs per month which became a growth of only 36000 jobs during the Trump years. During the last two years of Obama, the annual median household increased $4800, but only $1400 during the first two years of Trump. And then, under Biden the same annual median income was of $3250. And I could go on like that, except on the house prices which is the area where the pattern does not stand. So there are two things here: - Even if has been saying for the last months/years that the economy was a disaster,Trump will say within the first month of his presidency that the economy is already doing better immediately, while the numbers will be the very same at first. And when the economy will falter later on just like during his first term, his supporters won't mind because... - This election was not at all about the economy. This argument is an excuse for the real reasons why many Americans vote: more and more are susceptible to the cult of personality and to the progression of the most radical right-wing extremism ideas.
gortok 2y ago
It was a combination of factors: zero interest rate policies changed to fight inflation and the Tax Cut Jobs act of 2017 changes (section 174) requiring capitalization of everything softwsre development related except bug fixes went into effect for tax year 2022. If software developer salaries cannot be expensed and it’s now 5 times more expensive to borrow money to expand, jobs will be lost. Oh, and the TCJA was championed and signed into law by then President Trump.
- gruez 2y ago
  >and the Tax Cut Jobs act of 2017 changes (section 174) requiring capitalization of everything softwsre development related except bug fixes went into effect for tax year 2022. Seems like a stretch. "Software Development Job Postings on Indeed in the United States"[1] was up into the beginning of 2022. The tax changes were known in advance for years. If the tax code changes were a significant factor, why did companies hire a bunch of people in 2021, knowing that when 2022 rolled around there would be massive taxes? [1] https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/IHLIDXUSTPSOFTDEVE https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/IHLIDXUSTPSOFTDEVE
  - gortok 2y ago
    > Seems like a stretch. "Software Development Job Postings on Indeed in the United States"[1] was up into the beginning of 2022. The tax changes were known in advance for years. If the tax code changes were a significant factor, why did companies hire a bunch of people in 2021, knowing that when 2022 rolled around there would be massive taxes? Gruez... Income Taxes are paid the year after they're incurred. Tax Year 2022 is filed and paid in 2023. The effects wouldn't start being felt until March 2023 at the earliest. Also, literally everyone involved in tax policy thought it would be repealed. Heck, the IRS had to scramble to release guidance because they thought it was going to be repealed. The IRS didn't release detailed guidance on Section 174 until September 2023 -- six months after tax filings were due (a number of businesses asked for an extension to file but still had to pay the taxes as if they had filed on time). https://www.cohnreznick.com/insights/additional-guidance-irs-section-174 https://www.cohnreznick.com/insights/additional-guidance-irs... The Section 174 capitalization for software development was included in the TCJA as a way to 'pay' for the tax cuts, but no one seriously believed it would stay in the law. The problem is congress is very dysfunctional, so once it was signed into law you'd need a congress to get it out. It's no surprise the congress in 2023 was more dysfunctional than the one in 2017. Also, in 2021 interest rates were historically low, and as I stated initially the dual loss of the ZIRP environment and the massive change to how software developer policies worked together to kill software development jobs.
eadmund 2y ago
> even software engineers were hurting and couldn't find work. Unprecedented Is the tech bust of 2000 so easily forgotten? And then the global financial crisis of 2008?
- globnomulous 2y ago
  Yes, especially if your username is "mlcrypto."

>Under the Biden/Harris administration even software engineers were hurting and couldn't find work. Unprecedented Sure. And why do you think that might be? In other words, do you think policy changes have instantaneous effect on issues like unemployment, or perhaps they take some time?

kukkamario 2y ago
It is rather annoying that larger policy changes easily take 2-4 years to actually affect anything so current party always gets both blame and thanks for the changes made by the previous administration.
matwood 2y ago
Yeah. Unless a POTUS is in for 8 years they almost never get to experience the full results of their economic policies. Biden inherited an inflation time bomb which has been handled. I expect Trump will claim he fixed inflation the first report that comes out after the inauguration.
- mindslight 2y ago
  A thousand times this. I don't know that Trump could have done a better job at economic sabotage when in office the first time. Printed trillions of dollars of undirected helicopter money when monetary velocity was low, which immediately went into asset inflation ("the stock market is great"). Then when things started moving again, it all started chasing goods and we got broad price inflation on top of acute shortages. The fact that the democrats just let the republicans hang Trump's economic destruction around their neck really shows how utterly inept they are at messaging. I shudder to think what inflation will be at in four years after a return to ZIRP corporate welfare and the next national emergency that's left to fester.
- throwaway2037 2y ago
  "inflation time bomb". I never saw that term before. What was the primary cause of simultaneous inflation in all highly advanced economies, and how was Trump responsible for the US component?
  - matwood 2y ago
    He wasn't responsible for all of it. COVID supply chain disruption obviously played a huge part, but it's like everyone has forgotten that Trump also sent out a huge amount of money[1]. We can debate if that was the wrong/right move, but it's annoying when people blame Biden for the inflation that inevitably came once the economy turned back around. Trump has as much if not more responsibility depending on how you look at it. Meanwhile, the Fed under a Biden administration has seemingly engineered a soft landing. Trump also pressed SA to cut oil production to help prop up gas prices in the US [2]. So when the economy turned demand surged back pushing prices higher. [1] https://www.investopedia.com/coronavirus-aid-relief-and-economic-security-cares-act-4800707 https://www.investopedia.com/coronavirus-aid-relief-and-econ... [2] https://www.reuters.com/article/economy/special-report-trump-told-saudi-cut-oil-supply-or-lose-us-military-support--idUSKBN22C1V3/ https://www.reuters.com/article/economy/special-report-trump...
colechristensen 2y ago
Democrats insisted on COVID restrictions that were more like religion than science and then they just stopped and everyone was fine. The medical outcomes good and bad still happened, some of them just delayed. The length and intensity of the restrictions were unnecessary, and the economic consequences of giving away trillions of dollars during them are why we’re in this economic situation. What would have changed if the restrictions were 6 or 12 months shorter? Nothing.
- rpenm 2y ago
  Not true, restrictive states had significantly lower mortality. Mask mandates being the most significant factor. The largest gaps in mortality occur in the latter half of 2020 and the latter half of 2021, during Delta. https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama-health-forum/fullarticle/2821581 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama-health-forum/fullartic...
- svardilfari 2y ago
  That's survivorship bias and thus your comment is just an opinion and nothing more. During restrictions covid vaccines were rapidly handed out and improved upon - this undoubtedly halted the spread of a virus that ultimately killed 1,212,000 people. So please go ask those peoples family and those people themselves if 'everyone was fine'
- throwaway4220 2y ago
  This ended up being true but is easy to say retrospectively though! I was in (irrationally) mortal fear everyday. Maybe if Democrats just played the republican card and refused to sign stimulus package just out of spite we would not be here. Same with the bank bailout in 2009.
  - colechristensen 2y ago
    You can look at my posting history from the time, I was saying the same thing during the latter half of the lockdown
- romwell 2y ago
j0hnyl 2y ago
They do have an instantaneous effect. The unemployment rate is toggled using interest rates and the impact is seen immediately.
GlobalFrog 2y ago
Well, if you remember the 2016 elections, Trump was saying that the economy was extremely bad and disastrous. Then, within his first month of presidency, suddenly, the same numbers were extremely good because of him. During the Obama presidency, there had been a growth of 227000 jobs per month which became a growth of only 36000 jobs during the Trump years. During the last two years of Obama, the annual median household increased $4800, but only $1400 during the first two years of Trump. And then, under Biden the same annual median income was of $3250. And I could go on like that, except on the house prices which is the area where the pattern does not stand. So there are two things here: - Even if has been saying for the last months/years that the economy was a disaster,Trump will say within the first month of his presidency that the economy is already doing better immediately, while the numbers will be the very same at first. And when the economy will falter later on just like during his first term, his supporters won't mind because... - This election was not at all about the economy. This argument is an excuse for the real reasons why many Americans vote: more and more are susceptible to the cult of personality and to the progression of the most radical right-wing extremism ideas.

gortok 2y ago

It was a combination of factors: zero interest rate policies changed to fight inflation and the Tax Cut Jobs act of 2017 changes (section 174) requiring capitalization of everything softwsre development related except bug fixes went into effect for tax year 2022. If software developer salaries cannot be expensed and it’s now 5 times more expensive to borrow money to expand, jobs will be lost. Oh, and the TCJA was championed and signed into law by then President Trump.

gruez 2y ago
>and the Tax Cut Jobs act of 2017 changes (section 174) requiring capitalization of everything softwsre development related except bug fixes went into effect for tax year 2022. Seems like a stretch. "Software Development Job Postings on Indeed in the United States"[1] was up into the beginning of 2022. The tax changes were known in advance for years. If the tax code changes were a significant factor, why did companies hire a bunch of people in 2021, knowing that when 2022 rolled around there would be massive taxes? [1] https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/IHLIDXUSTPSOFTDEVE https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/IHLIDXUSTPSOFTDEVE
- gortok 2y ago
  > Seems like a stretch. "Software Development Job Postings on Indeed in the United States"[1] was up into the beginning of 2022. The tax changes were known in advance for years. If the tax code changes were a significant factor, why did companies hire a bunch of people in 2021, knowing that when 2022 rolled around there would be massive taxes? Gruez... Income Taxes are paid the year after they're incurred. Tax Year 2022 is filed and paid in 2023. The effects wouldn't start being felt until March 2023 at the earliest. Also, literally everyone involved in tax policy thought it would be repealed. Heck, the IRS had to scramble to release guidance because they thought it was going to be repealed. The IRS didn't release detailed guidance on Section 174 until September 2023 -- six months after tax filings were due (a number of businesses asked for an extension to file but still had to pay the taxes as if they had filed on time). https://www.cohnreznick.com/insights/additional-guidance-irs-section-174 https://www.cohnreznick.com/insights/additional-guidance-irs... The Section 174 capitalization for software development was included in the TCJA as a way to 'pay' for the tax cuts, but no one seriously believed it would stay in the law. The problem is congress is very dysfunctional, so once it was signed into law you'd need a congress to get it out. It's no surprise the congress in 2023 was more dysfunctional than the one in 2017. Also, in 2021 interest rates were historically low, and as I stated initially the dual loss of the ZIRP environment and the massive change to how software developer policies worked together to kill software development jobs.

eadmund 2y ago

> even software engineers were hurting and couldn't find work. Unprecedented Is the tech bust of 2000 so easily forgotten? And then the global financial crisis of 2008?

globnomulous 2y ago
Yes, especially if your username is "mlcrypto."