7 ms·

[flagged]

olalonde 2y ago
If your idea of Trump was formed from reading mainstream media, you likely have a very distorted idea of who he is. The amount of misinformation around him is next level.
spiderfarmer 2y ago
Yet no-one will ever admit they regret voting for him. They’ll blame everyone else including themselves, but will never criticize their leader. The parallels with religion are frightening.
- siffin 2y ago
  The parallels with fascism are frightening. We're 8 years down a path of followers being endeared with trumpet, hard to walk that back now and admit mistake. What you're talking about is already happening. Every fourth or fifth comment in this thread is already blaming the left for making the right what it is.
  - lillecarl 2y ago
    First past the post voting made USA polarized, time to modernise politics!
  - spiderfarmer 2y ago
    That’s why religious leaders came up with the concept of a devil. So they can always say someone else is responsible for when their god seems to fall short.
- jeffhuys 2y ago
  You can't admit to something you don't feel.
  - spiderfarmer 2y ago
    That’s why I never heard an empathetic comment from a Trump follower.
nickreese 2y ago
As an American living in Europe, it is fun to see the filter bubble Europeans live in with regards to how the US is framed in the media here and even in common coversation. I was talking to my French buddy about it and we were comparing our filter bubbles. Please realize that there is a filter bubble that all of us live in.
- lifeinthevoid 2y ago
  Can you give a brief comparison of the different views? I’m European and watch/read a lot of US news sources from both sides and still think “European” about Trump.
  - vundercind 2y ago
    You’re missing the political viewpoint of 45% of the country if you’re not main-lining right-wing radio and Fox News. No, stop—don’t google what they just said, imagine you just believe it and see where that takes you. [edit] if you want root-cause for how we got here, look into media ownership laws in the US, and into the Citizens United court case (check out the 5-4 podcast for a fun/horrifying take). Single entities can own unlimited reach of media, which didn’t used to be the case, as recently as the very early 2000s IIRC, and Citizens opened up unlimited corporate spending in elections, with exactly the implications you’d expect for e.g. foreign spending on US elections. Er, I mean, the actual root cause is kinda the system of elections the slave states pushed into the constitution, if you wanna go way back, but the proximate cause of the current political landscape is that.
  - amarcheschi 2y ago
    I'm Italian and the views I have here (left/center left/center friends/relatives) is that he's a crazy nut job that's gonna hurt europe as well as limiting abortion rights and similar things. I'd say there's not much talk about economy because we don't understand shit in our own economy either, let alone a foreign one... Except that we think the rich are gonna get much richer and he's gonna cut social spending (ie, less Healthcare and similar things) and he's gonna crackdown on immigration. Not expressing our own views on it, that's just what i think it's talked about Trump here Oh, he's also a misogynistic, convicted felon that spews lies. This is partially our view in my bubble, if I had to say it entirely I would get flagged lol
hggigg 2y ago
Buying shares in popcorn here. Our company, US based, thinks this is bad enough that we have contingency plans for his presidency.
- potato3732842 2y ago
  What industry if I might ask?
  - hggigg 2y ago
    Finance
bfrog 2y ago
If only, somehow any failures will still be placed on a different plate. This is the winner of a dying/dead empire.
piuantiderp 2y ago
At least they get to vote... Did you vote for Ursula?
- bojan 2y ago
  No, but yes for the people that elected here. It works the same here in the Netherlands. Nobody actually voted for the Dutch PM.
  - isaacremuant 2y ago
    The parliamentary systems in Europe are appalling and ensure "status quo" of elites. After watching it enough at play, you understand. There's absolutely a sovereignty problem with the EU, which is not necessarily fixed by getting out because the lobbyists can pay the politicians no matter what.
    - bojan 2y ago
      I'm watching it for 25 years now, I'd dare say understand it well. And yes, the EU has a sovereignty problem. However, that is by design, as the member states wish to keep control. It's certainly not my preference, but with the current political climate it won't change.
      - isaacremuant 2y ago
        It's ironic how you took it the wrong way, as if I didn't know it was by design and think that "the EU doesn't have enough power or doesn't remove enough sovereignty from the member states". My problem is exactly that it removes sovereignty and citizens of each country have a weakened democracy and representation because of it. The capacity to effect change is extremely low thanks to both parliamentary systems and the supranational EU. The EU has some convenient things that one can benefit from, so people don't care to have the other conversation (or are simply authoritarian).
        bojan 2y ago
AndyJames 2y ago
I'm seriously worried about the Ukraine since I live in a country next in line for invasion if Ukraine will get defeated.
- cranberryturkey 2y ago
  Which country is that?
  - gambiting 2y ago
    I'm Polish and I'm mega worried about it too. If Trump decides to pull US support for Ukraine and be best buddies with Putin I don't think it's crazy to imagine Poland getting pulled into the conflict within couple years, which depending on how things go could mean the involvement of all of NATO.
    - cranberryturkey 2y ago
      He wants the baltics back, not poland.
- VagabundoP 2y ago
  I hope EU really steps up, because its looking like the start of WWIII, where the EU will have to defend its border. We all know Putin is not interested in stopping where he is. I've seen some articles about Trump admin Minsk III and that he'll threaten Putin with blah blah if he doesnt sign up. Its a long shot but we'll see. I want the EU to really take this seriously. Ramp up arms manufacturing to supply Ukraine will send a message that Ukraine will keep fighting until Russia implodes.
- dtquad 2y ago
  Ironically a lot of the American Right was actually radicalized by the 2015/2016 Syrian refugee crisis in Europe. Tim Pool went from being an #OccupyWallStreet Berniebro to one of the biggest US conservative commentators after he saw brown people in Sweden. The Ron Paul crowd (who pretended to be "socially liberal & fiscally conservative") posted borderline "white genocide" conspiracy theories about what was happening in Europe. Brown people in Sweden is "an invasion". Russia invading Ukraine is merely "self-defense against NATO enlargement". Don't let them pretend they are just isolationists. They explicitly support Russia because of the "white christian" racial identity politics they actually align with.
tgma 2y ago
Poorer and poorer? Hard fact is that Trump presidency delivered actual (i.e. inflation adjusted) wage growth for people in many years, so your perception of reality might not be accurate as what media propagates and makes people believe. As for "women's rights," I take it as abortion policy in particular, which compared to your baseline of Europe is actually not that far off, depending on the state/country used as a point of comparison. There is a reason a majority of people vote for him. I can see how Europeans are particularly put off by President Trump. His trade and NATO policy requires Europe to uphold their end of the bargain, right or wrong, as he sees it, and increase trade with their US ally, which is not necessarily what Europeans or globalists want.
- tonmoy 2y ago
  > Hard fact is that Trump presidency delivered actual wage growth for people in many years Do you have a source for this claim? Covid did end up causing salary increase I know, but we can hardly attribute that to the president
  - tgma 2y ago
    BLS data is public and can be crunched from here https://www.bls.gov https://www.bls.gov, but posing the basic question to ChatGPT: Wage Growth: Obama: Modest but steady wage growth, particularly from 2015 onwards. Real wage growth averaged 0.5%–1.0%. Trump: Stronger wage growth pre-pandemic, with real wage growth averaging 1.0%–1.5%, but the pandemic and high inflation in 2021 dampened these gains. Inflation: Obama: Inflation was relatively low and stable, averaging around 1.3%–1.5%. Trump: Inflation was low until 2021, when it surged to 5.4%, outpacing wage growth. Real Wage Growth vs. Inflation: Obama: In the later years of his presidency, wage growth generally outpaced inflation (2015–2016). Trump: Wage growth outpaced inflation until 2021, when inflation surged and surpassed wage increases.
    - tonmoy 2y ago
      I don’t think ChatGPT should be cited as source
wslh 2y ago
Simple answer: two parties, there should be more people engaging in politics and less armchair critics. BTW I don't see Europe in good shape either, even when I would prefer to live there for other reasons that are not connected to business at all.
imgabe 2y ago
Do you notice how nobody in America cares who the leaders in Europe are? Because it doesn’t matter. Which should tell you that you guys are bad at picking leaders.
- piltdownman 2y ago
  Or it could just be because of the real fear of the consequences of the mindset of American Exceptionalism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Service-Members%27_Protection_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Service-Members%27_Pr...
  - imgabe 2y ago
    The only reason there are US military bases in your countries is because TWICE you idiots started wars that almost destroyed the world.
    - piltdownman 2y ago
      Are we just ignoring the Bay of Pigs? The Iran-Contra Affair? Vietnam? Desert Shield? Desert Storm? I hesitate to even mention Kissinger who was effectively an autonomous nation-state during the carpet-bombing of Cambodia. This is non-withstanding the fact that WW2 was effectively a result of punitive measures and economic destruction following WW1 (a blueprint for the post-Charlie Wilson's Afghanistan if you will). The causes of WW1 however - bad faith alliances during the right-wing rise of imperialism, militarism, and nationalism - look to be back in play in the North American Continent.
      - imgabe 2y ago
        The power differential between the US and the rest of North and South America pretty much guarantees that nothing like WWI could happen. Europe had hundreds of years of plundering the rest of the world. WWI happened because Germany wanted a piece of the pie too, and the other, more established powers didn't want to share. None of that had anything to do with American Exceptionalism. And, yeah, America's not perfect. We got thrust into the role of being a global superpower after the second time Europe tried to blow itself up. The other option was the USSR (who did their own share of empire building).
gigatexal 2y ago
Trust me. There are plenty of us Americans — just not enough in the right counties and states — who are just as upset as you.
isaacremuant 2y ago
[dead]
monero-xmr 2y ago
I voted Trump. Biden was an absolute failure. I guess HN is a bubble to the extreme because anyone could have saw this coming but elite leftists
cbeach 2y ago
As a European I'm glad that Trump was elected, despite his personality flaws. Biden was openly hostile toward my home country (the UK), and was a dead end when it came to negotiating the free trade deal we should be aiming for now we're free of the EU. Trump, and the Republicans have more love for the UK than the Dems have shown, although this isn't reciprocated by the current UK regime, which allegedly attempted to meddle in the US election https://theconversation.com/what-us-election-interference-law-actually-says-about-labour-volunteers-242055 https://theconversation.com/what-us-election-interference-la... At the end of the day I want to see a strong and safe USA, because the US is our #1 ally. The markets have responded very well to the Trump victory, and I believe that the world was a more stable and safer place under Trump than it was under Biden. If Trump can complete his Abraham Accords he will be remembered as a remarkable peacemaker in the Middle East. I suspect most people haven't even heard of the Abraham Accords, because the mainstream media is so weaponised against Trump.
synergy20 2y ago
the left went too far,it forces so many people used to be in the middle to the right.
- cranberryturkey 2y ago
  back in the 80s and 90s politicians strived to be just right or left of center. That's who won. Now its those are furthest away from it.
- moomin 2y ago
  If Biden’s trade policy pushed you to the right, maybe you weren’t that centrist to begin with.
  - synergy20 2y ago
    it's anything but trade policy
tofrankfurthbf 2y ago
Just go to Frankfurt Hauptbanhof then see there the real effects of European policies. Make up your own mind then.
- selimthegrim 2y ago
  What is at Frankfurt Hbf?
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

[flagged]

If your idea of Trump was formed from reading mainstream media, you likely have a very distorted idea of who he is. The amount of misinformation around him is next level.

spiderfarmer 2y ago

Yet no-one will ever admit they regret voting for him. They’ll blame everyone else including themselves, but will never criticize their leader. The parallels with religion are frightening.

siffin 2y ago
The parallels with fascism are frightening. We're 8 years down a path of followers being endeared with trumpet, hard to walk that back now and admit mistake. What you're talking about is already happening. Every fourth or fifth comment in this thread is already blaming the left for making the right what it is.
- lillecarl 2y ago
  First past the post voting made USA polarized, time to modernise politics!
- spiderfarmer 2y ago
  That’s why religious leaders came up with the concept of a devil. So they can always say someone else is responsible for when their god seems to fall short.
jeffhuys 2y ago
You can't admit to something you don't feel.
- spiderfarmer 2y ago
  That’s why I never heard an empathetic comment from a Trump follower.

nickreese 2y ago

As an American living in Europe, it is fun to see the filter bubble Europeans live in with regards to how the US is framed in the media here and even in common coversation. I was talking to my French buddy about it and we were comparing our filter bubbles. Please realize that there is a filter bubble that all of us live in.

lifeinthevoid 2y ago
Can you give a brief comparison of the different views? I’m European and watch/read a lot of US news sources from both sides and still think “European” about Trump.
- vundercind 2y ago
  You’re missing the political viewpoint of 45% of the country if you’re not main-lining right-wing radio and Fox News. No, stop—don’t google what they just said, imagine you just believe it and see where that takes you. [edit] if you want root-cause for how we got here, look into media ownership laws in the US, and into the Citizens United court case (check out the 5-4 podcast for a fun/horrifying take). Single entities can own unlimited reach of media, which didn’t used to be the case, as recently as the very early 2000s IIRC, and Citizens opened up unlimited corporate spending in elections, with exactly the implications you’d expect for e.g. foreign spending on US elections. Er, I mean, the actual root cause is kinda the system of elections the slave states pushed into the constitution, if you wanna go way back, but the proximate cause of the current political landscape is that.
- amarcheschi 2y ago
  I'm Italian and the views I have here (left/center left/center friends/relatives) is that he's a crazy nut job that's gonna hurt europe as well as limiting abortion rights and similar things. I'd say there's not much talk about economy because we don't understand shit in our own economy either, let alone a foreign one... Except that we think the rich are gonna get much richer and he's gonna cut social spending (ie, less Healthcare and similar things) and he's gonna crackdown on immigration. Not expressing our own views on it, that's just what i think it's talked about Trump here Oh, he's also a misogynistic, convicted felon that spews lies. This is partially our view in my bubble, if I had to say it entirely I would get flagged lol

hggigg 2y ago

Buying shares in popcorn here. Our company, US based, thinks this is bad enough that we have contingency plans for his presidency.

potato3732842 2y ago
What industry if I might ask?
- hggigg 2y ago
  Finance

bfrog 2y ago

If only, somehow any failures will still be placed on a different plate. This is the winner of a dying/dead empire.

piuantiderp 2y ago

At least they get to vote... Did you vote for Ursula?

bojan 2y ago
No, but yes for the people that elected here. It works the same here in the Netherlands. Nobody actually voted for the Dutch PM.
- isaacremuant 2y ago
  The parliamentary systems in Europe are appalling and ensure "status quo" of elites. After watching it enough at play, you understand. There's absolutely a sovereignty problem with the EU, which is not necessarily fixed by getting out because the lobbyists can pay the politicians no matter what.
  - bojan 2y ago
    I'm watching it for 25 years now, I'd dare say understand it well. And yes, the EU has a sovereignty problem. However, that is by design, as the member states wish to keep control. It's certainly not my preference, but with the current political climate it won't change.
    - isaacremuant 2y ago
      It's ironic how you took it the wrong way, as if I didn't know it was by design and think that "the EU doesn't have enough power or doesn't remove enough sovereignty from the member states". My problem is exactly that it removes sovereignty and citizens of each country have a weakened democracy and representation because of it. The capacity to effect change is extremely low thanks to both parliamentary systems and the supranational EU. The EU has some convenient things that one can benefit from, so people don't care to have the other conversation (or are simply authoritarian).
      - bojan 2y ago

AndyJames 2y ago

I'm seriously worried about the Ukraine since I live in a country next in line for invasion if Ukraine will get defeated.

cranberryturkey 2y ago
Which country is that?
- gambiting 2y ago
  I'm Polish and I'm mega worried about it too. If Trump decides to pull US support for Ukraine and be best buddies with Putin I don't think it's crazy to imagine Poland getting pulled into the conflict within couple years, which depending on how things go could mean the involvement of all of NATO.
  - cranberryturkey 2y ago
    He wants the baltics back, not poland.
VagabundoP 2y ago
I hope EU really steps up, because its looking like the start of WWIII, where the EU will have to defend its border. We all know Putin is not interested in stopping where he is. I've seen some articles about Trump admin Minsk III and that he'll threaten Putin with blah blah if he doesnt sign up. Its a long shot but we'll see. I want the EU to really take this seriously. Ramp up arms manufacturing to supply Ukraine will send a message that Ukraine will keep fighting until Russia implodes.
dtquad 2y ago
Ironically a lot of the American Right was actually radicalized by the 2015/2016 Syrian refugee crisis in Europe. Tim Pool went from being an #OccupyWallStreet Berniebro to one of the biggest US conservative commentators after he saw brown people in Sweden. The Ron Paul crowd (who pretended to be "socially liberal & fiscally conservative") posted borderline "white genocide" conspiracy theories about what was happening in Europe. Brown people in Sweden is "an invasion". Russia invading Ukraine is merely "self-defense against NATO enlargement". Don't let them pretend they are just isolationists. They explicitly support Russia because of the "white christian" racial identity politics they actually align with.

tgma 2y ago

Poorer and poorer? Hard fact is that Trump presidency delivered actual (i.e. inflation adjusted) wage growth for people in many years, so your perception of reality might not be accurate as what media propagates and makes people believe. As for "women's rights," I take it as abortion policy in particular, which compared to your baseline of Europe is actually not that far off, depending on the state/country used as a point of comparison. There is a reason a majority of people vote for him. I can see how Europeans are particularly put off by President Trump. His trade and NATO policy requires Europe to uphold their end of the bargain, right or wrong, as he sees it, and increase trade with their US ally, which is not necessarily what Europeans or globalists want.

tonmoy 2y ago
> Hard fact is that Trump presidency delivered actual wage growth for people in many years Do you have a source for this claim? Covid did end up causing salary increase I know, but we can hardly attribute that to the president
- tgma 2y ago
  BLS data is public and can be crunched from here https://www.bls.gov https://www.bls.gov, but posing the basic question to ChatGPT: Wage Growth: Obama: Modest but steady wage growth, particularly from 2015 onwards. Real wage growth averaged 0.5%–1.0%. Trump: Stronger wage growth pre-pandemic, with real wage growth averaging 1.0%–1.5%, but the pandemic and high inflation in 2021 dampened these gains. Inflation: Obama: Inflation was relatively low and stable, averaging around 1.3%–1.5%. Trump: Inflation was low until 2021, when it surged to 5.4%, outpacing wage growth. Real Wage Growth vs. Inflation: Obama: In the later years of his presidency, wage growth generally outpaced inflation (2015–2016). Trump: Wage growth outpaced inflation until 2021, when inflation surged and surpassed wage increases.
  - tonmoy 2y ago
    I don’t think ChatGPT should be cited as source

wslh 2y ago

Simple answer: two parties, there should be more people engaging in politics and less armchair critics. BTW I don't see Europe in good shape either, even when I would prefer to live there for other reasons that are not connected to business at all.

imgabe 2y ago

Do you notice how nobody in America cares who the leaders in Europe are? Because it doesn’t matter. Which should tell you that you guys are bad at picking leaders.

piltdownman 2y ago
Or it could just be because of the real fear of the consequences of the mindset of American Exceptionalism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Service-Members%27_Protection_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Service-Members%27_Pr...
- imgabe 2y ago
  The only reason there are US military bases in your countries is because TWICE you idiots started wars that almost destroyed the world.
  - piltdownman 2y ago
    Are we just ignoring the Bay of Pigs? The Iran-Contra Affair? Vietnam? Desert Shield? Desert Storm? I hesitate to even mention Kissinger who was effectively an autonomous nation-state during the carpet-bombing of Cambodia. This is non-withstanding the fact that WW2 was effectively a result of punitive measures and economic destruction following WW1 (a blueprint for the post-Charlie Wilson's Afghanistan if you will). The causes of WW1 however - bad faith alliances during the right-wing rise of imperialism, militarism, and nationalism - look to be back in play in the North American Continent.
    - imgabe 2y ago
      The power differential between the US and the rest of North and South America pretty much guarantees that nothing like WWI could happen. Europe had hundreds of years of plundering the rest of the world. WWI happened because Germany wanted a piece of the pie too, and the other, more established powers didn't want to share. None of that had anything to do with American Exceptionalism. And, yeah, America's not perfect. We got thrust into the role of being a global superpower after the second time Europe tried to blow itself up. The other option was the USSR (who did their own share of empire building).

gigatexal 2y ago

Trust me. There are plenty of us Americans — just not enough in the right counties and states — who are just as upset as you.

isaacremuant 2y ago

[dead]

monero-xmr 2y ago

I voted Trump. Biden was an absolute failure. I guess HN is a bubble to the extreme because anyone could have saw this coming but elite leftists

cbeach 2y ago

As a European I'm glad that Trump was elected, despite his personality flaws. Biden was openly hostile toward my home country (the UK), and was a dead end when it came to negotiating the free trade deal we should be aiming for now we're free of the EU. Trump, and the Republicans have more love for the UK than the Dems have shown, although this isn't reciprocated by the current UK regime, which allegedly attempted to meddle in the US election https://theconversation.com/what-us-election-interference-law-actually-says-about-labour-volunteers-242055 https://theconversation.com/what-us-election-interference-la... At the end of the day I want to see a strong and safe USA, because the US is our #1 ally. The markets have responded very well to the Trump victory, and I believe that the world was a more stable and safer place under Trump than it was under Biden. If Trump can complete his Abraham Accords he will be remembered as a remarkable peacemaker in the Middle East. I suspect most people haven't even heard of the Abraham Accords, because the mainstream media is so weaponised against Trump.

synergy20 2y ago

the left went too far,it forces so many people used to be in the middle to the right.

cranberryturkey 2y ago
back in the 80s and 90s politicians strived to be just right or left of center. That's who won. Now its those are furthest away from it.
moomin 2y ago
If Biden’s trade policy pushed you to the right, maybe you weren’t that centrist to begin with.
- synergy20 2y ago
  it's anything but trade policy

tofrankfurthbf 2y ago

Just go to Frankfurt Hauptbanhof then see there the real effects of European policies. Make up your own mind then.

selimthegrim 2y ago
What is at Frankfurt Hbf?

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]