6 ms·

Review of Vienna: How the City of Ideas Created the Modern World

159 points by mitchbob 2y ago

mitchbob 2y ago
https://archive.ph/tvAUO https://archive.ph/tvAUO
croisillon 2y ago
if you are in Vienna on Nov 21st, there is a (free) presentation of the book at the city hall: https://vorlesungen.wien.gv.at/richard-cockett-2111/ https://vorlesungen.wien.gv.at/richard-cockett-2111/
- itronitron 2y ago
  it will be streamed online, if you want to attend in person then registration is required here: https://ticket.wien.gv.at/M09/richardcockett/ https://ticket.wien.gv.at/M09/richardcockett/
- tomtomistaken 2y ago
  Also, Molchat Doma is playing that evening.
blfr 2y ago
[flagged]
- alexey-salmin 2y ago
  I wonder which city can claim the title nowadays. At some point many would say San-Francisco but IMO it was a different kind of center, and that seems to be gone too anyhow.
  - crossroadsguy 2y ago
    I think when it's about an intellectually and culturally rich capital/world city, SF would not make the cut even among such cities of the USA, let alone the world. Unless one completely equates diverse intellectual and cultural heritage and tradition to something like hippie movement or money-making alone.
- ks2048 2y ago
  I'm not sure how your last sentence about foreigners relates to the rest of your comment. 3/5 of the influential people you mentioned were not Austrian. (implying that the intellectual ferment was partially due to a mix of foreign and diverse ideas).
- elAhmo 2y ago
  It’s a bold claim to make that Vienna has been abandoned by the Austrians.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
4ad 2y ago
[flagged]
- aa-jv 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - DiscourseFan 2y ago
    Nobody likes taxes, but I guarantee you'd rather be unemployed in Vienna than San Francisco
    - 4ad 2y ago
      [flagged]
      - sebastianz 2y ago
        > I'd rather be "unemployed" in San Francisco because of a far better culture I like how you put "unemployed" in quotes. I think many unemployed people would love to also have the quotes. The person you replied to referred I think to actual no-quotes unemployed, not the "building my startup" type of unemployed.
      - DiscourseFan 2y ago
        No your concerns are valid, its just that you clearly don't know what life is like in America for the have-nots. You see rich people on social media, in movies and TV. You think it would just be a bit harder than how you have it now. You don't even think about what it would be like to be unemployed; an American is deathly afraid of losing their job. That means they won't be able to pay rent, they won't be able to see a doctor, they won't be able to afford to eat. There's a social safety net, sure, it's just not a very good one. Lot's of people die in America all the time of preventable causes, many who would be in your position, just because they didn't "pull themselves up by their bootstraps" or whatever. No, look, Europe is almost caste-based in how rigid the social hierarchies have become due to the immensity of the social-welfare programs. They'll keep you alive and comfortable but you'll never have the autonomy of the ultra-wealthy who galavant around Vienna and drive fancy cars and fly all over the world. Let me tell you something: its better to have good public education, good public healthcare, and good public infrastructure than to drive a fancy car. Still, you feel like you're not truly free, because you aren't really. But Americans aren't more free than you either, even if they appear to you to be. You're just looking in the wrong place for your freedom.
the_mitsuhiko 2y ago
Vienna to me is a fascinating case of a city that found itself again after having lost its place in history more than once. If you look at the geography, if you look at the political climate, just at the fundamentals it's not clear why Vienna is a large city. There really is not a lot of reason for this city to matter today yet somehow it is a wonderful place to live in, despite all that. The city somehow managed to find an identity on its own that somehow makes it work.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- whilenot-dev 2y ago
  > If you look at the geography, if you look at the political climate, just at the fundamentals it's not clear why Vienna is a large city. Could you elaborate on this a bit please? Vienna has culturally always been considered the front door to eastern Europe (from a central European POV). Vienna is one of the best cities in central Europe to go for an academic degree: Renting is capped and still affordable (and wants to be kept that way btw, see the ban of AirBnB). There are almost no education fees, even non-austrians can apply for benefits from the government. With 200k students it's the largest german-speaking university city on par with Berlin[0]. The employment law is exemplary good. For me personally it isn't surprsing that almost 1/4th of whole Austria lives in Vienna. [0]: https://www.wien.gv.at/statistik/pdf/viennainfigures-2023.pdf https://www.wien.gv.at/statistik/pdf/viennainfigures-2023.pd...
  - Rinzler89 2y ago
    >The employment law is exemplary good. Taht's not true at all. Employers can lay off workers for no reason at all at any time without paying any severance (unless you have a unio that can negotiate a better deal). Just hand them the notice and you're done.
    - whilenot-dev 2y ago
      The notice period is 6 weeks at minimum by law and often negotiated to be 3 months on unlimited contracts - limited contacts can't be terminated unilateral. And, depending on social situation, you can still sue immediately through the Arbeiterkammer[0] without any costs. [0]: https://www.arbeiterkammer.at/beratung/arbeitundrecht/beendigung/Arbeitgeber-Kuendigung.html https://www.arbeiterkammer.at/beratung/arbeitundrecht/beendi...
hoseja 2y ago
[flagged]
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
theanonymousone 2y ago
There is an episode of Freakonomics podcast about the same(?) topic: https://freakonomics.com/podcast/how-does-the-lost-world-of-vienna-still-shape-our-lives/ https://freakonomics.com/podcast/how-does-the-lost-world-of-...
_DeadFred_ 2y ago
I read The World of Yesterday: Memoirs of a European by Stefan Zweig after a recommendation on HN. Gave an interesting if sad view into the Vienna of the past.
- cenamus 2y ago
  Can also recommend it highly, fascinating view into the stagnation, bureaucracy and "general feel" of the time
- leobg 2y ago
  It’s excellent. For those the speak German, there is also a fanatastic audio book read by an Austrian actor. It very much sounds like Zweig speaking because of the accent.
  - hinnisdael 2y ago
    Yeah, the audiobook version really is quite special. It’s read by Peter Vilnai, if I remember correctly. One of the few audiobooks I was able to completely be absorbed by while listening.
- keiferski 2y ago
  Also try The Man Without Qualities. Same time period and location.
  - selimthegrim 2y ago
    Excellent recommendation. Musil had a lot of mic drop lines about “Kakania”
forbiddenvoid 2y ago
Can we put the title of the book in quotes? The title currently reads like this link points to a review of Vienna, the city. It would be more clear if it read Review of "Vienna: How the City of Ideas Created the Modern World".
- _yb2s 2y ago
  This is one of the most misleading titles I’ve seen on HN because it has a clear meaning that in this context is totally wrong. Almost always with mistakes like this the unclear title is simply unclear.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
indiantinker 2y ago
Vienna is fascinating! I wrote a bit about my love hate relationship with Vienna over the years here : https://indiantinker.bearblog.dev/love-letter-to-vienna/ https://indiantinker.bearblog.dev/love-letter-to-vienna/
- bkfh 2y ago
  Really nice read
kylecazar 2y ago
I'll order it. I became interested in 20th century Vienna recently after reading that Hitler, Trotsky, Freud, Tito, Stalin and Franz Ferdinand all lived in the same area of the city at the same time (in 1913). https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-21859771 https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-21859771
- awiesenhofer 2y ago
  Well, calling it the same area is a bit of a stretch by the BBC, 2-4 km distance here in Vienna is quite a lot and more like the other side of the city, definitly different districts. "Lived in the same city" is probably more accurate. Though Hitler, Stalin, Trotzki and Tito did have something in common: they all visited the same coffee house, Cafe Central. Which is still open today, unchanged, now more famous for its delicious cakes and long lines of tourists though.
inglor_cz 2y ago
We should also give fair share of the credit to Budapest and its "Martians". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Martians_(scientists) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Martians_(scientists) Most of the great thinkers of the former Austro-Hungarian empire were Jewish, though. The Holocaust thoroughly devastated the Central European intellectual circles and turned a previously important region of the world into a somewhat mediocre place. Not a complete backwater, but a shadow of its former self.
DanielLee5 2y ago
[dead]
DanielLee888 2y ago
Vienna is beyond this world.
- DanielLee888 2y ago
  [dead]
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

159 points by mitchbob 2y ago

https://archive.ph/tvAUO https://archive.ph/tvAUO

if you are in Vienna on Nov 21st, there is a (free) presentation of the book at the city hall: https://vorlesungen.wien.gv.at/richard-cockett-2111/ https://vorlesungen.wien.gv.at/richard-cockett-2111/

itronitron 2y ago
it will be streamed online, if you want to attend in person then registration is required here: https://ticket.wien.gv.at/M09/richardcockett/ https://ticket.wien.gv.at/M09/richardcockett/
tomtomistaken 2y ago
Also, Molchat Doma is playing that evening.

blfr 2y ago

[flagged]

alexey-salmin 2y ago
I wonder which city can claim the title nowadays. At some point many would say San-Francisco but IMO it was a different kind of center, and that seems to be gone too anyhow.
- crossroadsguy 2y ago
  I think when it's about an intellectually and culturally rich capital/world city, SF would not make the cut even among such cities of the USA, let alone the world. Unless one completely equates diverse intellectual and cultural heritage and tradition to something like hippie movement or money-making alone.
ks2048 2y ago
I'm not sure how your last sentence about foreigners relates to the rest of your comment. 3/5 of the influential people you mentioned were not Austrian. (implying that the intellectual ferment was partially due to a mix of foreign and diverse ideas).
elAhmo 2y ago
It’s a bold claim to make that Vienna has been abandoned by the Austrians.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

4ad 2y ago

[flagged]

aa-jv 2y ago
[flagged]
- DiscourseFan 2y ago
  Nobody likes taxes, but I guarantee you'd rather be unemployed in Vienna than San Francisco
  - 4ad 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - sebastianz 2y ago
      > I'd rather be "unemployed" in San Francisco because of a far better culture I like how you put "unemployed" in quotes. I think many unemployed people would love to also have the quotes. The person you replied to referred I think to actual no-quotes unemployed, not the "building my startup" type of unemployed.
    - DiscourseFan 2y ago
      No your concerns are valid, its just that you clearly don't know what life is like in America for the have-nots. You see rich people on social media, in movies and TV. You think it would just be a bit harder than how you have it now. You don't even think about what it would be like to be unemployed; an American is deathly afraid of losing their job. That means they won't be able to pay rent, they won't be able to see a doctor, they won't be able to afford to eat. There's a social safety net, sure, it's just not a very good one. Lot's of people die in America all the time of preventable causes, many who would be in your position, just because they didn't "pull themselves up by their bootstraps" or whatever. No, look, Europe is almost caste-based in how rigid the social hierarchies have become due to the immensity of the social-welfare programs. They'll keep you alive and comfortable but you'll never have the autonomy of the ultra-wealthy who galavant around Vienna and drive fancy cars and fly all over the world. Let me tell you something: its better to have good public education, good public healthcare, and good public infrastructure than to drive a fancy car. Still, you feel like you're not truly free, because you aren't really. But Americans aren't more free than you either, even if they appear to you to be. You're just looking in the wrong place for your freedom.

the_mitsuhiko 2y ago

Vienna to me is a fascinating case of a city that found itself again after having lost its place in history more than once. If you look at the geography, if you look at the political climate, just at the fundamentals it's not clear why Vienna is a large city. There really is not a lot of reason for this city to matter today yet somehow it is a wonderful place to live in, despite all that. The city somehow managed to find an identity on its own that somehow makes it work.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
whilenot-dev 2y ago
> If you look at the geography, if you look at the political climate, just at the fundamentals it's not clear why Vienna is a large city. Could you elaborate on this a bit please? Vienna has culturally always been considered the front door to eastern Europe (from a central European POV). Vienna is one of the best cities in central Europe to go for an academic degree: Renting is capped and still affordable (and wants to be kept that way btw, see the ban of AirBnB). There are almost no education fees, even non-austrians can apply for benefits from the government. With 200k students it's the largest german-speaking university city on par with Berlin[0]. The employment law is exemplary good. For me personally it isn't surprsing that almost 1/4th of whole Austria lives in Vienna. [0]: https://www.wien.gv.at/statistik/pdf/viennainfigures-2023.pdf https://www.wien.gv.at/statistik/pdf/viennainfigures-2023.pd...
- Rinzler89 2y ago
  >The employment law is exemplary good. Taht's not true at all. Employers can lay off workers for no reason at all at any time without paying any severance (unless you have a unio that can negotiate a better deal). Just hand them the notice and you're done.
  - whilenot-dev 2y ago
    The notice period is 6 weeks at minimum by law and often negotiated to be 3 months on unlimited contracts - limited contacts can't be terminated unilateral. And, depending on social situation, you can still sue immediately through the Arbeiterkammer[0] without any costs. [0]: https://www.arbeiterkammer.at/beratung/arbeitundrecht/beendigung/Arbeitgeber-Kuendigung.html https://www.arbeiterkammer.at/beratung/arbeitundrecht/beendi...

hoseja 2y ago

[flagged]

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

theanonymousone 2y ago

There is an episode of Freakonomics podcast about the same(?) topic: https://freakonomics.com/podcast/how-does-the-lost-world-of-vienna-still-shape-our-lives/ https://freakonomics.com/podcast/how-does-the-lost-world-of-...

_DeadFred_ 2y ago

I read The World of Yesterday: Memoirs of a European by Stefan Zweig after a recommendation on HN. Gave an interesting if sad view into the Vienna of the past.

cenamus 2y ago
Can also recommend it highly, fascinating view into the stagnation, bureaucracy and "general feel" of the time
leobg 2y ago
It’s excellent. For those the speak German, there is also a fanatastic audio book read by an Austrian actor. It very much sounds like Zweig speaking because of the accent.
- hinnisdael 2y ago
  Yeah, the audiobook version really is quite special. It’s read by Peter Vilnai, if I remember correctly. One of the few audiobooks I was able to completely be absorbed by while listening.
keiferski 2y ago
Also try The Man Without Qualities. Same time period and location.
- selimthegrim 2y ago
  Excellent recommendation. Musil had a lot of mic drop lines about “Kakania”

forbiddenvoid 2y ago

Can we put the title of the book in quotes? The title currently reads like this link points to a review of Vienna, the city. It would be more clear if it read Review of "Vienna: How the City of Ideas Created the Modern World".

_yb2s 2y ago
This is one of the most misleading titles I’ve seen on HN because it has a clear meaning that in this context is totally wrong. Almost always with mistakes like this the unclear title is simply unclear.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

indiantinker 2y ago

Vienna is fascinating! I wrote a bit about my love hate relationship with Vienna over the years here : https://indiantinker.bearblog.dev/love-letter-to-vienna/ https://indiantinker.bearblog.dev/love-letter-to-vienna/

bkfh 2y ago
Really nice read

kylecazar 2y ago

I'll order it. I became interested in 20th century Vienna recently after reading that Hitler, Trotsky, Freud, Tito, Stalin and Franz Ferdinand all lived in the same area of the city at the same time (in 1913). https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-21859771 https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-21859771

awiesenhofer 2y ago
Well, calling it the same area is a bit of a stretch by the BBC, 2-4 km distance here in Vienna is quite a lot and more like the other side of the city, definitly different districts. "Lived in the same city" is probably more accurate. Though Hitler, Stalin, Trotzki and Tito did have something in common: they all visited the same coffee house, Cafe Central. Which is still open today, unchanged, now more famous for its delicious cakes and long lines of tourists though.

inglor_cz 2y ago

We should also give fair share of the credit to Budapest and its "Martians". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Martians_(scientists) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Martians_(scientists) Most of the great thinkers of the former Austro-Hungarian empire were Jewish, though. The Holocaust thoroughly devastated the Central European intellectual circles and turned a previously important region of the world into a somewhat mediocre place. Not a complete backwater, but a shadow of its former self.

DanielLee5 2y ago

[dead]

DanielLee888 2y ago

Vienna is beyond this world.

DanielLee888 2y ago
[dead]

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]