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I think Trump and the Republicans did actually succeed in welcoming in a truly diverse base of new and former voters: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/1

I think Trump and the Republicans did actually succeed in welcoming in a truly diverse base of new and former voters: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/11/06/us/politics/presidential-election-2024-red-shift.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/11/06/us/politics/p... This is the Red Wave that was promised in 2020 and 2022 but failed to materialize. Why didn't Harris and the Democrats pull it off? Well, they could start by not playing identity politics or calling Americans deplorables, Nazis, and garbage. Godwin's Law was in full swing for them. I'm Japanese-American, demographically I should be a bleeding heart Democrat, but truthfully I can't stand their constant victimizing and divisive rhetoric and is why I voted for Trump and the Republicans in 2016, 2020, and 2024.

cglace 2y ago
As someone who pays attention to politics exceptionally closely, I wonder what you would call Trump's rhetoric if not divisive.
- Dalewyn 2y ago
  I call it practical, on point, gruff, and charismatic. Practical and on point because Trump talks about things that the common American actually gives a shit about in a way that the common American can understand and relate to. This also has a side effect of uniting people under a common cause despite outward appearances. Gruff because that style of speech appeals to most Americans who don't like being sophisticated, or worse: Being politically correct. Remember that being politically incorrect was one of the reasons Trump won in 2016, and it's still one of the reasons he won again today. Charismatic because, well, I think everyone has to at least admit that the man draws people in despite any and all odds.
  - cglace 2y ago
    So when he calls the other side names and makes threats, he is practical and gruff. His practical message was incoherent; it was more of an erring of grievances, conspiracy theories, and wild policy ideas that he seemed to have come up with while speaking. I can't argue with the fact that it appealed to people, but you can't say it wasn't divisive because it was practical and gruff. Those two things don't rule out divisiveness. BTW, I voted Republican in every election until Trump, and the reason why I didn't vote for him was due to how divisive he was. I think you just happen to agree with his side of the divide.
    - DFHippie 2y ago
      > erring of grievances I don't know whether this was deliberate or a typo, but it's funny and apt.
  - GTP 2y ago
    > uniting people under a common cause If the common cause is being against other people, that's still divisive.
  - beezlewax 2y ago
    "They're eating the dogs, they're eating the cats" Is that gruff or on point?
    - cglace 2y ago
      Don't worry he will fix the economy.
Daishiman 2y ago
You literally voted for a guy who said things 1000x worse and this is your take?
- foldr 2y ago
  I recall a vox pop in the Washington Post that included a woman who was voting for Trump because she thought he'd be better than Harris at standing up to Putin. Trump seems to attract a combination of low information voters and voters who are reluctant to give their real reasons for voting for him. Either way, don't expect the given reason to make a lot of sense.
  - Daishiman 2y ago
    He doesn't have a reason to hide why he was voting for him, so I'll chalk it up to the low information voters who vote on vibes. In low-information voters' defense, it's been amazing to me as a non-American how Trump's literal dementia was not in the front pages of the media every single day. The complicity of the news media in normalizing a senile candidate should't go unnoticed.
    - Dalewyn 2y ago
      >Trump's literal dementia Nope. I watched that now infamous three hour marathon podcast he did with Joe Rogan. That kind of performance is not something a demented man can do, full stop. To say nothing of his utterly crazy rally schedule, I legitimately don't know where he gets his energy. Hate him if you want, that's your right and I will respect that. But Trump is terrifyingly sharp, especially for a man his age. >The complicity of the news media in normalizing a senile candidate should't go unnoticed. The media dumped Biden right quick after his old age couldn't be hidden anymore. That debate he had was straight up elder abuse by the media.
      - Daishiman 2y ago
        > I legitimately don't know where he gets his energy. Drugs. Incoherent hour-long rants are the product of stimulants, the kind that give you the sort of terrible judgement that no one would ever want out of a presidential candidate.
bilekas 2y ago
The double standard for Trump vs ANYONE else is mind blowing.
mcphage 2y ago
> Well, they could start by not playing identity politics or calling Americans deplorables, Nazis, and garbage. Why not, though? Clearly, it is a winning strategy for the Republicans. So why not adopt it as well?
aguaviva 2y ago
I can't stand their constant divisive rhetoric and is why I voted for Trump and the Republicans in 2016, 2020, and 2024. I'd be curious what your gut reaction was to the comedian that Trump's team hired to open at his rally at Madison Square Garden, just this past week, who referred to Puerto Rico as "a floating island of garbage" (starts at about 0:16): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNBdYplmKcI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNBdYplmKcI Would your reaction be the same if he had referred to, say, Japan in the same way?
- Dalewyn 2y ago
  Unfortunately, Puerto Rico is in a pretty bad spot[1] and while I agree the joke is crude I also think it's a fair criticism of the island's state. Note that the criticism is directed at the island and not the people thereof, that would be firing too close to home. Also interestingly, Puerto Rican and Latino votes for Trump actually increased[2] fueled primarily by economic and governance concerns. That joke ultimately didn't seem to have a negative impact, if any. Contrast Biden calling Americans garbage, which simply added more fuel to the furor behind Trump and Republicans. As for the hypothetical question: If someone joked Japan is a floating island of garbage and there is actual basis for that criticism, I would take that as a cue to man up and make myself and my homeland great again so I can look at the joker in the eye with results. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Percent_population_below_poverty_level_by_Puerto_Rico_census_tract_(2015).png https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Percent_population_below_... [2]: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cze3yr77j9wo https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cze3yr77j9wo
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - aguaviva 2y ago
    Hmm -- if someone threw that comment at my direction, I'd just assume they were a complete idiot, and not worth a further second of my time. I certainly wouldn't take it as a cue that I need to "man up", or that I should vote for whatever party they were shilling for. But hey, that's just me.

cglace 2y ago

As someone who pays attention to politics exceptionally closely, I wonder what you would call Trump's rhetoric if not divisive.

Dalewyn 2y ago
I call it practical, on point, gruff, and charismatic. Practical and on point because Trump talks about things that the common American actually gives a shit about in a way that the common American can understand and relate to. This also has a side effect of uniting people under a common cause despite outward appearances. Gruff because that style of speech appeals to most Americans who don't like being sophisticated, or worse: Being politically correct. Remember that being politically incorrect was one of the reasons Trump won in 2016, and it's still one of the reasons he won again today. Charismatic because, well, I think everyone has to at least admit that the man draws people in despite any and all odds.
- cglace 2y ago
  So when he calls the other side names and makes threats, he is practical and gruff. His practical message was incoherent; it was more of an erring of grievances, conspiracy theories, and wild policy ideas that he seemed to have come up with while speaking. I can't argue with the fact that it appealed to people, but you can't say it wasn't divisive because it was practical and gruff. Those two things don't rule out divisiveness. BTW, I voted Republican in every election until Trump, and the reason why I didn't vote for him was due to how divisive he was. I think you just happen to agree with his side of the divide.
  - DFHippie 2y ago
    > erring of grievances I don't know whether this was deliberate or a typo, but it's funny and apt.
- GTP 2y ago
  > uniting people under a common cause If the common cause is being against other people, that's still divisive.
- beezlewax 2y ago
  "They're eating the dogs, they're eating the cats" Is that gruff or on point?
  - cglace 2y ago
    Don't worry he will fix the economy.

Daishiman 2y ago

You literally voted for a guy who said things 1000x worse and this is your take?

foldr 2y ago
I recall a vox pop in the Washington Post that included a woman who was voting for Trump because she thought he'd be better than Harris at standing up to Putin. Trump seems to attract a combination of low information voters and voters who are reluctant to give their real reasons for voting for him. Either way, don't expect the given reason to make a lot of sense.
- Daishiman 2y ago
  He doesn't have a reason to hide why he was voting for him, so I'll chalk it up to the low information voters who vote on vibes. In low-information voters' defense, it's been amazing to me as a non-American how Trump's literal dementia was not in the front pages of the media every single day. The complicity of the news media in normalizing a senile candidate should't go unnoticed.
  - Dalewyn 2y ago
    >Trump's literal dementia Nope. I watched that now infamous three hour marathon podcast he did with Joe Rogan. That kind of performance is not something a demented man can do, full stop. To say nothing of his utterly crazy rally schedule, I legitimately don't know where he gets his energy. Hate him if you want, that's your right and I will respect that. But Trump is terrifyingly sharp, especially for a man his age. >The complicity of the news media in normalizing a senile candidate should't go unnoticed. The media dumped Biden right quick after his old age couldn't be hidden anymore. That debate he had was straight up elder abuse by the media.
    - Daishiman 2y ago
      > I legitimately don't know where he gets his energy. Drugs. Incoherent hour-long rants are the product of stimulants, the kind that give you the sort of terrible judgement that no one would ever want out of a presidential candidate.

bilekas 2y ago

The double standard for Trump vs ANYONE else is mind blowing.

mcphage 2y ago

> Well, they could start by not playing identity politics or calling Americans deplorables, Nazis, and garbage. Why not, though? Clearly, it is a winning strategy for the Republicans. So why not adopt it as well?

aguaviva 2y ago

I can't stand their constant divisive rhetoric and is why I voted for Trump and the Republicans in 2016, 2020, and 2024. I'd be curious what your gut reaction was to the comedian that Trump's team hired to open at his rally at Madison Square Garden, just this past week, who referred to Puerto Rico as "a floating island of garbage" (starts at about 0:16): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNBdYplmKcI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNBdYplmKcI Would your reaction be the same if he had referred to, say, Japan in the same way?

Dalewyn 2y ago
Unfortunately, Puerto Rico is in a pretty bad spot[1] and while I agree the joke is crude I also think it's a fair criticism of the island's state. Note that the criticism is directed at the island and not the people thereof, that would be firing too close to home. Also interestingly, Puerto Rican and Latino votes for Trump actually increased[2] fueled primarily by economic and governance concerns. That joke ultimately didn't seem to have a negative impact, if any. Contrast Biden calling Americans garbage, which simply added more fuel to the furor behind Trump and Republicans. As for the hypothetical question: If someone joked Japan is a floating island of garbage and there is actual basis for that criticism, I would take that as a cue to man up and make myself and my homeland great again so I can look at the joker in the eye with results. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Percent_population_below_poverty_level_by_Puerto_Rico_census_tract_(2015).png https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Percent_population_below_... [2]: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cze3yr77j9wo https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cze3yr77j9wo
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- aguaviva 2y ago
  Hmm -- if someone threw that comment at my direction, I'd just assume they were a complete idiot, and not worth a further second of my time. I certainly wouldn't take it as a cue that I need to "man up", or that I should vote for whatever party they were shilling for. But hey, that's just me.