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> Their shift to electric is far too slow and too far behind already. And it's also too late for another industry disrupting startup like Tesla. Is it? At this

> Their shift to electric is far too slow and too far behind already. And it's also too late for another industry disrupting startup like Tesla. Is it? At this point I’ve driven electric Audis and BMWs, VWs, Kia’s and also BYDs. While the BYDs are certainly cars and are also relatively affordable compared to other options (of course it’s impossible to compare a BYD car to a BMW), it is not a very nice car in my experience. Wether or not that is enough of a difference to sway consumer sentiment remains to be seen, but I don’t think it is as over as you make it out to be.

riobard 2y ago
What are the price ranges of the different cars you're comparing?
PittleyDunkin 2y ago
Who gives a shit about "nice"? I want good value. I just need to get from point a to point b without getting hurt
- Ekaros 2y ago
  I take thousands cheaper over nice... I think there is lot of value in value.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
- lukan 2y ago
  "I just need to get from point a to point b without getting hurt" I also enjoy being comfortable while doing so. Meaning sitting nice, good climate control, no bad smells, good sound isolation, ... being able to use the trunk. Also a "nice" car also drives nice. If I like driving a car, it means I can handle it better - which is critical in critical situations - to not get hurt.
  - mplewis 2y ago
    These are luxury needs. Most consumers want a Toyota Corolla for under $5,000.
  - Yeul 2y ago
    In my country one buys a 5 year old second hand car and put all the money in your house. You drive less than 30 kilometers every day so who gives a shit really?
chii 2y ago
> it is not a very nice car in my experience. what constitute "nice"? from all of the reviews i've seen, they're well built. The common misconception that chinese electronics products are made cheap and poorly is no longer true today (hasn't been true for the past decade).
lukan 2y ago
"Wether or not that is enough of a difference to sway consumer sentiment remains to be seen." I think the biggest advantage from cars not from china are, that they are not from china. No Huawei risk. No dead car in a major escalation. Cars have gotten too smart and too connected for me to feel safe with a direct control line to Peking. (I also don't feel safe with a control line to Musk's HQ)
brtkdotse 2y ago
> Is it? At this point I’ve driven electric Audis and BMWs, VWs, Kia’s and also BYDs. The real problem is that legacy car makers’ EVs are all high-mid/luxury cars. People just want a Honda Civic that takes them from point A to point B.
- oarsinsync 2y ago
  Like a VW eGolf or a Vauxhall / Opel eCorsa?
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - brtkdotse 2y ago
    They both cost in the same ball park as a Tesla Model Y. They are not affordable cars by any stretch of the imagination.
  - JTyQZSnP3cQGa8B 2y ago
    The eGolf costs 40k€ in France. 4 times more expensive than my car. It’s a luxury car, not for poor people.
    - fransje26 2y ago
      If the price of a new base clio starts at 20k€ and a Fiat panda at 15k€, than 40k€ is around the correct ballpark price for an eGolf I would argue, relatively speaking. We could considered the Chinese cars as cheap, but we are than comparing the cost of a price-dumped car from China, to a slightly overpriced car from Germany. The outlier here is considering a 10k€ car something normal. 10 years ago I would have argued yes, but after the inflation wave of the last few years, that is no longer a reality. The problem for many consumers, and France is a good example of this, is that the salaries haven't followed. The second problem for France is that a large part of the population is stuck in minimum-wage or close to minimum-wage salaries, putting those goods out of reach as their prices increase with inflation. (Leaving the debate about whether the price increase is the cause or the consequence of inflation aside)

riobard 2y ago

What are the price ranges of the different cars you're comparing?

PittleyDunkin 2y ago

Who gives a shit about "nice"? I want good value. I just need to get from point a to point b without getting hurt

Ekaros 2y ago
I take thousands cheaper over nice... I think there is lot of value in value.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
lukan 2y ago
"I just need to get from point a to point b without getting hurt" I also enjoy being comfortable while doing so. Meaning sitting nice, good climate control, no bad smells, good sound isolation, ... being able to use the trunk. Also a "nice" car also drives nice. If I like driving a car, it means I can handle it better - which is critical in critical situations - to not get hurt.
- mplewis 2y ago
  These are luxury needs. Most consumers want a Toyota Corolla for under $5,000.
- Yeul 2y ago
  In my country one buys a 5 year old second hand car and put all the money in your house. You drive less than 30 kilometers every day so who gives a shit really?

chii 2y ago

> it is not a very nice car in my experience. what constitute "nice"? from all of the reviews i've seen, they're well built. The common misconception that chinese electronics products are made cheap and poorly is no longer true today (hasn't been true for the past decade).

lukan 2y ago

"Wether or not that is enough of a difference to sway consumer sentiment remains to be seen." I think the biggest advantage from cars not from china are, that they are not from china. No Huawei risk. No dead car in a major escalation. Cars have gotten too smart and too connected for me to feel safe with a direct control line to Peking. (I also don't feel safe with a control line to Musk's HQ)

brtkdotse 2y ago

> Is it? At this point I’ve driven electric Audis and BMWs, VWs, Kia’s and also BYDs. The real problem is that legacy car makers’ EVs are all high-mid/luxury cars. People just want a Honda Civic that takes them from point A to point B.

oarsinsync 2y ago
Like a VW eGolf or a Vauxhall / Opel eCorsa?
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- brtkdotse 2y ago
  They both cost in the same ball park as a Tesla Model Y. They are not affordable cars by any stretch of the imagination.
- JTyQZSnP3cQGa8B 2y ago
  The eGolf costs 40k€ in France. 4 times more expensive than my car. It’s a luxury car, not for poor people.
  - fransje26 2y ago
    If the price of a new base clio starts at 20k€ and a Fiat panda at 15k€, than 40k€ is around the correct ballpark price for an eGolf I would argue, relatively speaking. We could considered the Chinese cars as cheap, but we are than comparing the cost of a price-dumped car from China, to a slightly overpriced car from Germany. The outlier here is considering a 10k€ car something normal. 10 years ago I would have argued yes, but after the inflation wave of the last few years, that is no longer a reality. The problem for many consumers, and France is a good example of this, is that the salaries haven't followed. The second problem for France is that a large part of the population is stuck in minimum-wage or close to minimum-wage salaries, putting those goods out of reach as their prices increase with inflation. (Leaving the debate about whether the price increase is the cause or the consequence of inflation aside)