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Well there is this though: > Women in trades have reported encounters with customers who doubted their competence and who refused to deal with them, seeking a
by aaplok 2y ago
Well there is this though:
> Women in trades have reported encounters with customers who doubted their competence and who refused to deal with them, seeking a man instead.
There is plenty of low key sexism (and racism) like that among white collars too so it is not restricted to trades (as acknowledged by the article's author), but this goes beyond banter like just teasing someone because they have red hair.
- orwin 2y agoI think GP is right though. Real sexism is way more present among middle-class/white-collar workers (whatever their gender is) than between blue collar workers. You will have poorly worded jokes from your coworkers, but the ass-grab or demeaning remarks will always be from managers (the kind of manager who don't know the trade or inherited the job) or customers.
- notahacker 2y agoSee, I kind of agree that there are certain types of sexism like assumptions that women won't get their hands dirty or patronising artificial politeness that are purely middle class constructs. But the idea that only white collar workers are capable of ass-grabs or genuinely derogatory remarks is wild...
- dmix 2y agoHe claimed “more prevalent” not “only white collar does x”
- notahacker 2y agoHe also claimed the ass-grabs and demeaning remarks will "always" be from managers [without trade experience]. Which is wild.
- orwin 2y agoIt is only when someone think they have power over someone else that they allow themselves to be inappropriate on the workplace. My mom was a nurse before forming nurses, and lived through that (from doctors especially). Her best friend was a security guard at diverse places, but she started at a mall (where she has "wild" stories as you put it. Confirmed 100% always her manager or customers, once the day manager was put on ice for harassment, his replacement ended the night by touching her butt the day he arrived. Crazy that people do that). But even closer to me, and more recently: i know a woman who work in a call center, and she explained to me the reason why it's always managers on the workplace: the other don't have the time to play powergames with each other, they have too much work (for her it was a female manager who learned of her homosexuality who started to get touchy). I stand by that. Obviously it is different in non-work settings, but at work?
- RHSeeger 2y agoMy guess would be that it's less about "position of power" and more about "less likely to face consequences". You see the same type of behavior in a variety of cases - Construction workers hooting and whistling at women - Gamers online being horrible to _everyone_ - Managers (as noted) sexually harassing employees All cases were consequences for behaving badly are far less likely.
- _yb2s 2y agoWhat is power, if not the ability to do what you want without facing consequences? If other people already support you or are indifferent, no power is needed to do what you want.
- RHSeeger 2y agoI guess it's a matter of how you look at it. To me, power is one way to avoid consequences, and anonymity is another. From the way you're phrasing things, anonymity is a kind of power, because it lets you avoid consequences. Both views are reasonable.
- lazyasciiart 2y agoThat’s an optimistic take, for instance there’s a lot of physical sexual harassment and even rape reported as occurring between members of the military, and infantry at least seems to code as blue collar.
- markus_zhang 2y agoYeah that's normal, like we short fat guys are never popular with girls. Learnt that from teenages and firmly believe that biologically people look down on each other.
- johnnyanmac 2y agosocietally. what amounts to attractiveness can vary a lot more than you think throughout cultures and times. But yes, people have always been in competition biologically to flaunt success and pick the best mating partner. You can do that through putting others down or otherwise controlling a mate. And the dimorphic needs between sexes only intensifies this. I'm no sociologist but I wouldn't be surprised if this is a universal experience.